Buying Used isn't Piracy

[Vegosiux]

Another, slightly related, but independent point is also, as I said many times before: What research can a person do when they're buying a new release, a new release that has been hyped up, a new release that has been hyped up in a holiday time? Seriously?

A lot actually, hyped games are hard to find honest reviews for, but they exist. That's why it's called research.

How can you "review" a game before it's even out? Sure you mean "preview"?

And all I'll say, demos, trailers and previews tell you jack all about what the end product will be like. That's marketing again, and the purpose of marketing is to draw attention; not to present a wholesome image of what you're marketing.

 

[Rude as HECK]

It's no wonder the copyright trolls are accused of being industry shills when all their arguments fall back to "It undermines profit to developers".

 

[Smeggs]

By that logic watching a movie anywhere but the theaters is piracy as well.

That is so very flawed it's laughable.

 

[everythingbeeps]

Of course it's not piracy.

But it DOES cut into new game sales, and developers and publishers are perfectly justified in recouping those losses however they see fit, including online passes and day-1 DLC.

Sorry, but used car sales cut into dealer's profits and they don't have the right to restrict the speedometer unless I pay them an extra $100.... your argument is bullshit.

Comparing video games to cars is the last desperate gasp of someone who doesn't have an argument. One is a major investment people have to take out fucking LOANS for. The other is a goddamn toy.

 

[everythingbeeps]

But it DOES cut into new game sales, and developers and publishers are perfectly justified in recouping those losses however they see fit, including online passes and day-1 DLC.

Untrue. It is forbidden by law to misguide a customer. You can not sell him a game, and then secretly program it in a way that half the game blocks up as soon as any random set of terms determined by EA is met.

EA probably can get away with it in the US, where you can pretty much write in the terms and conditions that people sell their mother by clicking accept, and courts will still let them get away with it, but elsewhere... Not so much.
The specific EU Directive eludes me a moment, but I remember there were directives in places against both misguiding, fraud and illegal terms and conditions. But whatever the case consumer law here in the Netherlands for one thing is clear: Sell a product, and you must deliver. If an EA game blocks up, you must offer them a chance to repair it free of any charge, or you can disband the purchase and are entitled to a full refund. Title 2 of the article inevitably states you can't deviate from this in any way, to the detriment of the consumer.

What's "blocking up"? What the fuck are you talking about? Games don't seize up or stop working until you deposit more fucking quarters. That doesn't happen.

If you're talking about online passes and day-1 DLC, you have to stop thinking of those as part of "the product". Those days are long gone. Online functionality is now a wholly separate product. People who buy the game new get that additional product for free. People who buy used do not. And they're not being secretive about this. If you buy a game not knowing that the online is a separate thing, shame on YOU.

 

[Vegosiux]

Can I ask a question? What the fuck ever happened to Demos? It seems that anyone could figure out if a game was worth buying if the publisher would put out a demo.

Yeah right.

Seeing 8% of the full game is totally an indicator of whether or not it's worth your money.

Sorry, no. Demos were never a realistic presentation of the product. Even in the days where the "ZOMG PIRACY, KILL IT WITH FIRE!" sentiment did not take root yet, demos were just not a good presentation. They're either lacking in too many aspects, in which case you have no idea what the game is like; or they hype up the main features of the game too much and it ends up being no better than the demo itself, in which case you wonder why you paid a full price for something only slightly better than the free version. In either case, the customer loses.

And I'm speaking from experience from like 17 years of demos.

 

[Vegosiux]

If you're talking about online passes and day-1 DLC, you have to stop thinking of those as part of "the product".

If they're not "part of the product", then what are they? And if it's a separate product, why the hell do I need that separate product to enable full functionality of another product?

Yes, I'm going back to the damned and overused car dealership again, but it's like buying a car without breaks. You can still drive it, of course, but for it to be fully functional, you have to purchase another product. Which is bullshit.

"The game is here, full functionality of said game sold separately!"

...Seriously?

I mean...SERIOUSLY!?

 

[GonzoGamer]

The used game market has recently become a pariah for developers and publishers alike to blame for reduced gains or increased losses to their sales. Many equate used games to piracy, and find no value in its existence.

And they're full of shit.

Should a developer and publisher of a game, or movie, or book, get money for every single person who got to play, watch, or read their product?

Not exactly easy to answer, is it?

Personally, I will continue to buy some used games and sell some games at times. This is the way that I have done it for years, and I will continue to do so as long as I can. I don't have any qualms doing so. I still can't tell you if it is right or wrong, though.

I think the reason some consumers (like myself) have a problem is because we know that as OP said, they're full of shit.
There are a few main reasons I think the burden to the used (and new) game purchasers is misplaced:

The problem isn't with the consumer. Used games used to be an additional impulse buy (and they didn't have a problem with it then) but now Gamestop wont sell you a new game if you don't pre-order it. But they will sell you a used copy at near new price. It seems to me that's a problem they have with the retailer and not the consumer.

The PS3 & 360 have sold a hell of a lot less then the PS2 alone did when it was as old. It's understandable that they would be selling fewer new games but I think that's a problem with the platform developers and not the consumers.

I understand they need to make money but $10 pass is championed by big publishers like Sony & EA who reap crazy profits anyway. Not small indy houses that might go out of business over a flop. But they see gamers are rather forgiving consumers generally and willing to pay what's asked. So of course they're going to ask for more. "She's Gotta Feed the Monkey"

 

[everythingbeeps]

If you're talking about online passes and day-1 DLC, you have to stop thinking of those as part of "the product".

If they're not "part of the product", then what are they? And if it's a separate product, why the hell do I need that separate product to enable full functionality of another product?

Yes, I'm going back to the damned and overused car dealership again, but it's like buying a car without breaks. You can still drive it, of course, but for it to be fully functional, you have to purchase another product. Which is bullshit.

"The game is here, full functionality of said game sold separately!"

...Seriously?

I mean...SERIOUSLY!?

1. Online functionality is now DLC. It's separate. It's an add-on. The concept should be simple even for you.
2. No. Comparing cars to video games does not work. Stop it. And your analogy is stupid anyway. A video game without online play is NOT like a car without brakes. I mean, come on.
3. "Full functionality" as pertains to the physical disc no longer includes online play. Online play is additional. This shit isn't hard.

 

[Vegosiux]

If you're talking about online passes and day-1 DLC, you have to stop thinking of those as part of "the product".

If they're not "part of the product", then what are they? And if it's a separate product, why the hell do I need that separate product to enable full functionality of another product?

Yes, I'm going back to the damned and overused car dealership again, but it's like buying a car without breaks. You can still drive it, of course, but for it to be fully functional, you have to purchase another product. Which is bullshit.

"The game is here, full functionality of said game sold separately!"

...Seriously?

I mean...SERIOUSLY!?

1. Online functionality is now DLC. It's separate. It's an add-on. The concept should be simple even for you.
2. No. Comparing cars to video games does not work. Stop it. And your analogy is stupid anyway. A video game without online play is NOT like a car without brakes. I mean, come on.
3. "Full functionality" as pertains to the physical disc no longer includes online play. Online play is additional. This shit isn't hard.

1) Source, please? "Even for me" you say? Why am I sensing a holier-than-thou and condescending vibe there? You afraid of something?
2) It works or it doesn't work, depending on what side you're on.
3) If I don't get "full functionality" with my physical disc, then why do I have to pay the full price?

 

[everythingbeeps]

If you're talking about online passes and day-1 DLC, you have to stop thinking of those as part of "the product".

If they're not "part of the product", then what are they? And if it's a separate product, why the hell do I need that separate product to enable full functionality of another product?

Yes, I'm going back to the damned and overused car dealership again, but it's like buying a car without breaks. You can still drive it, of course, but for it to be fully functional, you have to purchase another product. Which is bullshit.

"The game is here, full functionality of said game sold separately!"

...Seriously?

I mean...SERIOUSLY!?

1. Online functionality is now DLC. It's separate. It's an add-on. The concept should be simple even for you.
2. No. Comparing cars to video games does not work. Stop it. And your analogy is stupid anyway. A video game without online play is NOT like a car without brakes. I mean, come on.
3. "Full functionality" as pertains to the physical disc no longer includes online play. Online play is additional. This shit isn't hard.

1) Source, please?
2) It works or it doesn't work, depending on what side you're on.
3) If I don't get "full functionality" with my physical disc, then why do I have to pay the full price?

1. Look around you. It's how video games are sold now. It's happened. That's my fucking source. You want a source for the sky, too? Go outside, tilt head up. There's your "source". Is that condescending enough for you?
2. Works fine. It doesn't have a certain option you're looking for, but it's available. If you want to insist on comparing it to cars, it's more like power windows or a leather interior than fucking brakes. Not necessary, and the car is a complete product without them. Power windows are just extra, for people who want that stuff.
3. Ugh. You're insufferable. "Full functionality" no longer includes online play. I already said this. As far as video games are concerned, the single player is the "full product". The online play is EXTRA. If you can't fucking adapt to this, then stop playing video games.


God, this online pass thing has bred a whole generation of whiners with entitlement issues.

 

[Fishyash]

Project $10 is definately meh. I guess it works for now, but I think the best way to go about it is to hopefully wait for gamestop to slowly die. Although I think it is TERRIBLE that people have the audacity to blame consumers rather than gamestop and other retail shops that focus on selling used games, it will inevitably go away into an era where all video games are sold digitally.

Ugh, I just got the chills. Digital only distribution really makes me nervous. Who will be selling these games? Will the publisher's sell them through their own websites, or will they all entrust their games to third party companies?

I would be very uncomfortable allowing a program such as Steam onto my system where it can observe the programs I am running (how do you think they detect cheating?) or if my internet connection goes down, I can no longer play games.

Publishers are forgetting BioWare's 1st law of Game Design:

A player must be able to purchase, install, run, and play a single player game without ever having to connect to the internet once, the exception being MMO's.

Bioware has broken that law...

Mass effect 1, you needed to connect to the internet in order to install the game.

Mass effect 2, to an extent, with the cerberus network.

Besides, it's pretty much happened already to the PC market. I don't know anyone who goes to a retail store to buy brand new video games. CDs as well, I know very few people who don't just download their tracks from itunes.

Also, steam and origin shouldn't be the only digital distributors... I really hope not. GOG proves (EDIT: I made this up, I have no idea how successful GOG is) it's perfectly fine to sell games online without having always-online DRM on it, but that's besides the point; there are way too many people with internet connections for this to not happen. It will be a slow transition, a long transition, but I have a good feeling that CDs will become a thing of the past. To the average person with an internet connection, digital distribution just seems more... convenient.

 

[Vegosiux]

1. Look around you. It's how video games are sold now. It's happened. That's my fucking source. You want a source for the sky, too? Go outside, tilt head up. There's your "source". Is that condescending enough for you?
2. Works fine. It doesn't have a certain option you're looking for, but it's available. If you want to insist on comparing it to cars, it's more like power windows or a leather interior than fucking brakes. Not necessary, and the car is a complete product without them. Power windows are just extra, for people who want that stuff.
3. Ugh. You're insufferable. "Full functionality" no longer includes online play. I already said this. As far as video games are concerned, the single player is the "full product". The online play is EXTRA. If you can't fucking adapt to this, then stop playing video games.


God, this online pass thing has bred a whole generation of whiners with entitlement issues.

1) "Everybody's doing it" is not a source. I was asking for a widely accepted official document or something along those lines.
2) Really? So online activation without which you can't even play single player locally is now "power windows"?
3) Again, then why the hell do I need to be able to be connected to the internet in order to even play the singleplayer, locally?

4) I don't think I'm the one with entitlement issues. I just want the games I buy with the money I earn honestly to be 100% functional. And I don't even buy used games. I just have a problem with an attitude like yours.