Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

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museofdoom

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Jun_Jun said:
Snip snip ^_^
I love you! The article you linked was a flawless description of what's wrong with "Nice Guys TM". As for the guy you were friends with that had feelings for you, it's really unfortunate that he couldn't just take the hint and let go :/

Anyways, I agree with you that patience works really well with other aspects of life but not with romance! And also that there are times where you need to give up and get on with life.

Really in short, I love your entire post, and it's perfect. :3
 

Gorrila_thinktank

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Onjenae said:
Shadowcreed said:
Onjenae said:
difference between me and the guys i complain about is im a woman lol i dont have to approach men, I dont get put in the friendzoine never have and never will lmaooo and when I want a guy I get him 1000% of the time

men cant say the same thing


I can be in the club by self lookingh all sad and i guarantee you by the end of the night i probably will get approached by 20 or more guys, everytime i walk down the street i get hit on I dont hit on men nor do i ever tell them they are good looking I let men do that to me therefore unlike you niceguys i know the person is already interested because they came to me not me to them


you see as a women i will never give you men that type of power i already know when a man likes me all i gotta do is wait for him to approach you on the other hand have to approach the woman and hope she does not turn you down


btw being superficial does not make you ***** you sound very sexiest honestyly reading through this thread i can tell msot of the nice guys are not alpha males there as reason most woman go after alpha males they havew masculine qualities nad they are not bitchy and effeminate like some of the men replying to this thread
you're mean and hypocritical miss.

So what if some of the men on this thread are Effeminate. That dosent mean you have free range to tease them. If we demeand women for having masculine qualites then none of the feminist movemonets would have happened.

we dont want to exclude you from the discusion but please come back when you have something to build people up instead of tearing them down.
 

ReservoirAngel

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I've been friend-zoned countless times. Though to be fair I am going after guys and like 97% of them are going to be straight so I can't exactly whine and ***** about it the way straight guys do.

And holy shit, do some of them whine and ***** about it! The passive-aggressive depressing Facebook statuses of one of my friends alone are enough to make me want to slap him. I don't know why I keep going out for drinks with him to let him vent to me about it, it's always the same boring shit.

But I guess it'd be kind of a dick move to just yell at him to grow a pair and move the fuck on because that shit happens, right guys?
 

Jun_Jun

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museofdoom said:
Jun_Jun said:
Snip snip ^_^
I love you! The article you linked was a flawless description of what's wrong with "Nice Guys TM". As for the guy you were friends with that had feelings for you, it's really unfortunate that he couldn't just take the hint and let go :/

Anyways, I agree with you that patience works really well with other aspects of life but not with romance! And also that there are times where you need to give up and get on with life.

Really in short, I love your entire post, and it's perfect. :3
Wow! I wasn't expecting such a kind response, ummm.. thankyou! :D
There's usually so much venom aimed at women/girls in these sorts of threads, your response just gave me my daily dose of happy... here have a video of a owl.
 

museofdoom

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Jun_Jun said:
You are officially my favorite person on escapist right now! Owls are like, one of my favorite animals ever! That video made my week I think :3
 

lizards

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TheVioletBandit said:
Onjenae said:
The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

Wow, your post is just so extremely shallow, arrogant, hateful, and judgmental. I am really glad for those men you deem "ugly as hell" that you don't want to associate with them, and if you ever see me I hope you think I'm ugly as hell too so you'll stay the fuck away from me.
your my new hero, HIGH 5
 

Saviordd1

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Onjenae said:
Saviordd1 said:

Seriously, these get annoying.

Self confidence is everything, if a girl is only looking for a super hot dude or a popular one she isn't worth your time ANYWAY.

"Nice guys" want a girlfriend? Grow up, stop being what is essentially sexist and try looking at girls for more then their damned looks.
problem is most nice guys generally go for the super hot girls i would have more sympathy for nice guys if they actually went for females on their level but they tend to chase after the gils every other guy wants to fuck and gets mad when they are rejected by that girl.


by the way whats wrong with a girl wanting a hot guy ?? its hilrous how men are shallow as hel lbut god forbid a woman wants a man who is decent looking lmaooo men start to *****, whine and complain about it


men have all these crazy standards for how they want a women to look and stuff but the minute a man can fall into most females standards of attractiveness we become shallow bitches lmaoooo thats crazy to me
I don't like it when either gender does it.

Guy only wants the girl with a nice T&A? Get the hell out, the world doesn't need you.
Girl only wants a guy with a 1000 pack? Go away, you're annoying me already.

Though sadly a lot of people do have that double standard.
/sigh whatever.
 

jthm

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MASTACHIEFPWN said:
STAY FRIENDS WITH THEM Even after they said they only want friendship!
Try to see it from the other side, not all of us are so shallow that we stopped being friends with "friend zoned" girls because we can't bang them and not all of you girls are as entirely blameless in these situations as you make it out to be.

In my case I've been "friend zoned" by three people. One of them I'm still friends with. The first one mixed sex into the equation right off the bat (I was a virgin when we met) and we started off doing the deed for a few weeks. Then she reversed course and said she only wanted to be friends. I was hurt, confused and angry. You really want to be friends with someone who is hurting, confused by your actions (that you can't or won't explain) and actively lashes out at you verbally when you try to help? Didn't think so. Granted, I was acting like a baby, but I think everyone is entitled to that the first time they get their heart broken, so long as they learn their lesson and don't repeat.

The second one was cool people, I was a bit older and more experienced, not prone to heartbreak like I had been with the one before. There was no sex this time, I asked her out, she turned me down and I left. I hadn't intended to stay melancholy and never speak to her again, but a few hours after I went to have a drink or three I start getting texts from mutual friends about how she's making a big joke of the whole thing to mutual friends, acquaintences and strangers. It's one thing to turn me down because you aren't attracted, I've done that with a few girls, it happens. It's quite another to then take that disappointment and turn it into a public shaming. Would I have been her friend after she turned me down? Probably. After she turned me down and then laughed about it to everyone who would listen? Hell no.

The third one I asked out, she turned me down (not attracted to me like that) I went off and took a day to suck it up. We still hang out, drink on the weekends and play video games together all the time. The difference here? She was straight from the start about what her feelings were and didn't feel the need to embarrass.
 

tobyornottoby

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Eternal Taros said:
What?
No kidding. What exactly is your argument here?
It's not about the distinction between spineless and not. The distinction is between a guy who cares about the girl and a guy who doesn't.
Not between one that is spineless and one that is controlling.
You said "being a controlling, aggressive dickhead is the only way to get girls." Where does the cares/doesn't care come from?

Also, caring, like being nice, is a requisite, not a goal. If all someone can offer to a girl is caring about her, he's coming up short.

Eternal Taros said:
Again, what?
No one is trying to answer anything in a mathematical sense.
No one even asked a question that was meant to be taken in a figurative manner.

[...]

No such connection exists with regards to the "Guy like you" issue.
Interestingly, you offer no alternative interpretations, instead seeking refuge in the idea that we're missing something here.
What then, do you suggest she was trying to say?
What was said in the post you replied to. She's looking for someone with the traits she likes about you. I replied to a post were you were analysing that line to the letter.

Eternal Taros said:
Stop being sexist.
There are differences between men and women on average. Knowing and understanding those (and of course, understanding that this is about averages and not about the individual level) will greatly help in matters like these.
 

humanizer

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being straight forward from the get go is fine. However what if you didn't realize that you were really attracted to the person until several months after being friends with them?
 

skywalkerlion

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I agree, except it's frustrating to hear "I wish I had a boyfriend like you". No matter what the intention is, it comes across completely different. Like, what's the point in saying it? To make someone feel bad that they don't have the physical attractiveness necessary to date you? Maybe that's a pessimistic outlook, maybe it's meant to be a compliment about their character but honestly, people should stop saying it.
 

thedeathscythe

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I've been friend zoned a couple times before the asking a girl out, and I've taken it in stride. I have a ton of girls that are friends, girls I'm legitimately not attracted to (just think about girls you know from school, you wouldn't want to get with even half of them, admit it), that if they asked me out, I would say the same thing, yet I value their friendship and I would want someone with their qualities, but hotter (f**k it, I'm vain, okay? haha).

Now, I have had this happen a couple times and I'm not sure why, but I've had girls want to be friends AFTER we've gone out. And I'm not just saying we go out a few times, we've maybe dated a week. This is us never knowing eachother, and then dating for 5 months, and it gets pretty serious. When a girl pulls that move on me, and I've had it happen quite a few times (I can think of 2 but there's maybe a third), THAT pisses me off. On the one hand, you're breaking up with me, yet on the other, you still want to hang out with me and my friends. I'm sorry, but I'm going to want to spend some time away for you for quite a while.

It's a jab to the eyes and a kick in the balls. You're dumping me, and sort of saying "none of that all mattered, I can immediately hang out with you and not really feel bad." The worst part is, they get mad when I say that that's not good enough for me. I've been in too deep (no pun intended), and there's no shallow end; I'm either all in or I'm all out. There's no middle ground once you date someone for quite a while.

I agree with the OP's points, minus "Why can't I find a guy like you" and then "you're just not the kind of guy I'm looking for". There's better ways to put that exact mindset, but I don't think doing it that way is good at all because it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure how to put it, I've never had those girls I talked about ask me out, but if you're a girl and you're reading this, I'm assuming for most guys, that whole spiel doesn't work.

TL;DR: I agree with the OP on most things, but girls can't date someone for months and then try and pull the "can we just be friends?" bit because it's unfair.
 

Pegghead

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While I too am not one for men who think all girls are smelly cooty-carriers who like shopping and friend-zoning, I think there's validity to both you OP and the concept of the friendzone.

While I agree that guys shouldn't assume that just being nice to a girl means they're in like Flynn, men who see more in their lady-friends than just a friend shouldn't just be judged as shallow and wanting to get into their pants. It's like...getting into different bands, with any new band you listen to a few songs, get to know their style, if you like it maybe you buy an album to listen to a few more of their songs, if this only increases your love then it grows from there, and you can either stop at a point where you like the band and their songs but not enough to become a big fan (this would be akin to just being plain old friends with a girl) or, if you wish, take it further and become a big fan because of how much you enjoy what you've heard of them so far (this is akin to a man starting out as friends with a girl, then trying to further the relationship). The complication that arises is that while a band cannot control how big or small your affection for them grows a woman most certainly can, and while we could go on all day about men reading the signs and getting the signals before taking the plunge and telling someone how they feel to satisfy their desire of furthering the relationship they ultimately don't know what's going to happen until they confess, so the confession is justified.

With that out of the way, in terms of the "friend-zoning" that can follow, while nobody likes giving or receiving dejection I see no wrong in a woman letting a guy-friend she can't see as a potential partner down gently with an affirmation of just wanting to keep their relationship at the level of friendship. And while I think what you were saying about saying "I think you've got the qualities I look for in partners, but you're just without that special something" instead of outright saying "I wouldn't date you because you've got a big nose" is at least satisfying to the guy who'd want to know why instead of being left to draw his own pessimistic conclusions, telling a man he's got all the qualities you like but you're just not attracted to him is objectively a little bit nasty and somewhat confusing, I mean what's to stop them reading that as the woman seeing him as nothing but a conveniently placed friend to call on and no more in their life, or the woman not being attracted to the thought of being seen out in public with them? In a perfect world neither side would have any conflictions in sharing how they really felt about one-another (do we really have to live in a world where men are expected to be the ones who approach women? It takes two to make a relationship, wouldn't it make the most sense for both sides to be free to have an equal hand in making that relationship?)

And with all that out of the way, regarding how men handle this I'll go back to what I said earlier: reacting by declaring that all women are bitches and acting like the woman they asked out spat in their face is just being silly. However, like I said, nobody likes rejection, and we can't just say that all men who ever ask lady-friends out are irrational, lusty and need to suck it up and take it like a man when a lady-friend says no (keeping in mind of course that the woman is also not just irrational, bitchy and not put in a very delicate position). Right up until the moment a man confesses he's probably going through a lot of self-doubt, deep-thought, weighing up the pros and cons, considering the effects a yes or a no would have on the already existing relationship, so obviously when he's knocked back it's not just a simple turn-down for a guy wanting to get laid, he's probably gonna be dissapointed, have his pride shaken, maybe feel like an idiot because of the effect it alone will have and so on. I think both parties can tend to just see through each other without realising that we're all rational, imaginative beings not driven solely by balls or bitchiness.

Then again, what would I know?
 

bluepilot

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It is normal to be sexually attracted to your opposite sex (or some some cases, same sex) friends at some point in the relationship, but that dies not mean that a sexual relationship will be pursued. I really hate it when guys become my friend just to get into my knickers, brrr, it is super super creepy.

To be honest I do not really like nice guys though. I like honest decent guys, and when you are honest and decent, sometimes you have to be the bad guy and do things that are not very nice.
 

JoeThree

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I'm going to add: Any girl who thinks a guy is just being her friend for X years just to bang her is completely insane, and not accepting his advances when he finally musters up the courage to ask you out is the most decent thing you could do. Being with someone with that much narcissism and pessimism will crush any nice guy.

Sorry ladies, I know some (not all, some) of you might only judge yourselves and others by how you look, and what's inbetween your legs... you vapid cunts who're talking about nice guys in an ironic way, doting about alpha males, and who honestly think you can have any man, but just to fill you in on a secret - you can't, and there is more to life than you seem to be capable of understanding or wanting.
 

stvncpr236

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I am apparently a "nice guy" and I have experienced the "friend zone" on multiple occasions. I never felt entitled to a relationship, i never thought the woman was a ***** for not wanting to go out with me or anything like that, but at the same time people (male/and female) cant help but form emotional attachments to others, its part of our nature. So, at least for me, when a guy is a "nice guy" to a girl, hes is not always trying to get sex. Often time the man has formed an emotional connection to the woman, and when those feelings are not returned, they feel quite unloved. For the females part, telling a man that you "wish you could find someone like him" does absolutely nothing to help out his emotions, in his mind he is "someone like him", because all the qualities your seeing are ones your seeing in him. This just causes him to question why you wouldn't date him, and that doubt wreaks havoc on his self esteem causing problems in future relationships. So be honest, I'm not saying to tell the guy hes ugly, or something like that, but don't just drop vague lines that leave him feeling inadequate. Tell him what the issue is and you may be surprised to see how quickly he works on the issues. Who knows he may become someone you find your self wanting to be with.
 

Nemesis729

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museofdoom said:
So you become friends with a female
^^HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THIS^^

OT: Y'know what no, no OT, I've never even been friends with a girl and I'm in college, guys who get friendzoned can shut the hell up, I'd kill to be friendzoned
 

dystopiaINC

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Relish in Chaos said:
I don?t think the ?friend zone? even exists. She either likes you, or she doesn?t. I understand that?s quite a black-and-white outlook, but that?s how it is. You never would?ve had a chance in the first place, so it?d make no difference whether you made a move six weeks ago.

Also, from personal observations, the best way to find a partner is to stop looking. You know, make friends without any ulterior motives, and if you both happen to like each other, then I guess you just?start dating one another.
yeah not always black and white. but I've done that a lot. I make friends first. and about 3 times i made a friend that i ended up liking a lot more than just a friend. the first 2 times they were already in relationships. the third time i went for it after I had known her for a couple months when i started liking her September/mid-November. asked her in December. got rejected. "I have a bad track record with relationships and don't want one for a while, plus I'm working full time and going to college, i don't have the time" was her response. (by February she had a boyfriend.)

I don't want to call myself nice, that just feels wrong. not that it wouldn't be mostly true. I don't break friendships off because I'm in the "friend-zone" but still it feels like a knife to the gut when every I see her. and she doesn't talk to me much any more. I make effort to contact her, we used to talk a lot about every topic under the sun. That's never come so naturally, with her we we're talking like that a week after meeting. but man i don't want to complain, i don't want to get mad at her, but it's hard sometimes, we used to talk about everything happen in our lives... but she never told me about her getting a boyfriend, I had to see them together. She never introduced me when I did, I had to introduce myself to him. and the look he gives me when she doesn't see... man it still hurts. (plus the way she turned me down, it made me feel like she had lied to me. that hurt. i trusted her)

TL:DR it's not black and white, good guys don't make make friends to try and butter up girls, sometimes they just end up caring for them, and by then you just might have blown your shot and your in the friends zone. and a lot of that bitching is just a way to get over it. understand it hurts, people. people don't always handle pain like that well.

stvncpr236 said:
I am apparently a "nice guy" and I have experienced the "friend zone" on multiple occasions. I never felt entitled to a relationship, i never thought the woman was a ***** for not wanting to go out with me or anything like that, but at the same time people (male/and female) cant help but form emotional attachments to others, its part of our nature. So, at least for me, when a guy is a "nice guy" to a girl, hes is not always trying to get sex. Often time the man has formed an emotional connection to the woman, and when those feelings are not returned, they feel quite unloved. For the females part, telling a man that you "wish you could find someone like him" does absolutely nothing to help out his emotions, in his mind he is "someone like him", because all the qualities your seeing are ones your seeing in him. This just causes him to question why you wouldn't date him, and that doubt wreaks havoc on his self esteem causing problems in future relationships. So be honest, I'm not saying to tell the guy hes ugly, or something like that, but don't just drop vague lines that leave him feeling inadequate. Tell him what the issue is and you may be surprised to see how quickly he works on the issues. Who knows he may become someone you find your self wanting to be with.
to this i hearty agree. if she told me something was wrong with me, something i could change, like managing my schedule to match hers, then i would have worked towards changing it. because to me she would be worth it.