Censorship is REAL and ADVANCING

[theultimateend]

In some countries speaking out against your government is illegal.
Promoting your beliefs if they are in conflict with the religious powers of your nation.

Many times in the 20th century multiple countries had gathered the artwork of people they didn't agree with and burned it because it was against the governments point of view.

I'm asking where do you draw the line?

As I said earlier, a crime does not exist without a cause, what is causing the crimes you are attempting to censor to exist? If you aren't willing to investigate the cause then you cannot truly contain the effect.

Then if speaking out against your government is illegal then I would say they are well within their right to censor, not that I would follow that being the freedom loving person I am.

I still retain my original view, if it's illegal then fine censor it. If you don't like it then change your government.
What's causing the crime is the lack of will to pay for things, some may say I just use it to try it out, well that might be the case but for most not so. Also I find it a weak excuse as now days info is available if you can't make up your mind if a product is good or can run then your beyond help. Anyways I think I strayed on a rabit trail there.

So you retain your original view and then give an absolutely ridiculous solution? Changing a government is generally a very very difficult process, people die, people lose their homes, and other terrible things unfold.

Considering that multiple companies and websites have been caught getting bribed to provide good reviews for products I'd like to know where this readily available info is. I mean even on the escapist you can't get reasonable views on games. Minimum requirement information is always wrong.

I've never ever seen definitive evidence that supports the fact that people pirate in large majority just to steal I hear people talk about it like they are scholars. Everyone I've ever known has used this option as a resource to make sound judgements on their purchases, just like going down to a dealership and testing out a car.

If game companies brought back honest demo's I feel that they'd immediately see a drop in piracy for the products in question. DoWII already isn't going to find my IP anywhere because I played their demo and found myself greatly disliking the end product. (Personal Opinion)

I literally would not have bought a new PC game since Red Alert 2 if I couldn't have tried it before I bought it, and the last two times I bought games without trying them first I greatly regretted the purchase. So much so that one of them I took back and demanded a refund for. I said something like "This game has killed a little bit of my inner child."

So essentially you have thousands of dollars that would have never been spent by just this poster alone if your uninformed view on the situation was universal. While I admit it would have helped my bank account I don't see many developers liking that universe.

Well the other people were right you really don't get the point.

If they want piracy to stop all they have to do is provide quality products at reasonable prices.

I'm quite certain most piracy involves downloading something, realizing it is crap, and deleting it. At least in an alternate universe I know there is a copy of me that does that and he's happy he's not scammed into a 50 dollar purchase he cannot return.

I'd also like to note that piracy in the gaming world started accelerating about the point most companies stopped providing demo's.

If you aren't willing to look at both sides of an argument then you shouldn't discuss it at all. I agree that people shouldn't pirate, but all you'd see change is that companies would start blaming their consumers.

Good example being limited installs on games, who does that hurt? You the honest customer.

ok, if you do a search for piracy on the website, you will see that this argument pops up a lot. A common factor in most of these threads is that I am in there doing the best i can to explain to people like you that piracy is wrong. I understand every side of the argument. There's no need to get insulting.

Piracy skyrocketed when it became easier to do. there are still lots of companys putting demos out. I would like to see figures on that if you dont mind. Also, who are you to decide what is a reasonable product? for years people have demanded their money back from the cinema for a movie they don't like.

as for your limited install argument, i totally agree. it's hurting people it shouldn't be. Unfortunately there's little else we can do about it at the moment. I do, however, think that the backlash for somebody trying to protect their investment by ensuring that it's used in the proper way was unwarrented and unfair

You know what stardock does to protect their investment? They have a CD-Key.

So while Stardock is doing well EA is falling through the floor financially. I would think protecting your investment and accusing anyone who buys your game of being a thief are a little bit different.

 

[theklng]

i have reasons to suspect this untrue based on my location and experience. i checked this less than 30 seconds ago.

I assume from your phrasing that you are Danish, if so; Give me a head's up, and I'll provide you with several sources in your inbox.

i was vague in my description for a reason. i don't need information about this anymore than what i have now.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

[rant]

If people are possess attention spans that they cannot read what I said then they should just never know. This TLR phenomenon is absolutely ridiculous. It's one of the major annoyances I have about the internet these days. It's another reason I detest MLA and APA format, I should NOT tell you the exact page in a journal entry I found my information on. Because information is easily misconstrued, instead you should (like I) read the entire article to get a better understanding of the information. I refuse to believe anyone on the internet is so short on time that they can't read a few paragraphs. If people are that busy they aren't on a gaming forum.

[/rant]

While it may be my opinion but any form of entertainment stops taking risks the moment "Industry" is slapped onto the end of it.

The Music Industry
The Movie Industry
The Gaming Industry

The moment it becomes an industry it no longer takes risks. This has been true long before piracy was even a blip on the radar.

But again it is a good scape goat, it's one of the better ones they've used. Just like they used to blame the cost of stocking shelves with products for the cost increase in games and then when companies switched to digital media downloads the cost didn't drop at all. In fact now I can many times get games cheaper by buying a physical copy than by owning an ethereal one that may or may not work when the company eventually goes under.

If you are that disillusioned with the industries of which you speak, then you should stop watching and playing games. Stating that the product isn't up to scratch and therefore you should be allowed to steal it doesn't work. Simply, either pay for what you watch or dont watch it.

*begins slow clap*


*sees no one else is joining in*
*stops*

Don't you dare stop. *applauds anyone who is against people pirating because they are cheapskates*

 

[s0denone]

Look, I can see where you're coming from, but I have 2 questions:
1)Is piracy illegal in Denmark?
2)Is free speech an explicitly granted right or an implied right in Denmark?

The way I see it, if the answer to 1 is No, then they had no right. If it's yes, then they did, because they're only blocking what is against the law to them. It's quite a leap to go from blocking something totally illegal and blocking a legit site.

Oh, and 2 had nothing to do with my argument, I'm just curious, I've heard a lot of countries only have it as an implied right.

1) Of course piracy is against the law, the problem is that the website wasn't, since it was a medium at made aware that it did not support or endorse any illegal torrents that was uploaded.

2) Yes, freedom of speech is secured by law in Denmark. In fact the law specifically states "There can be no such thing as censorship or regulations of freedom speech".

1)Thanks for answering my questions.
2)How can you claim that a site called "piratebay" doesn't know there's piracy going on?

No problem at all.

The fact that the site has a "give-away" name could just be a misunderstanding on your part? A name is a name. "We thought it sounded cool, and were appalled to find out the negative connotations, but sadly it was too late." A name doesn't make a website illegal, and you were arguing/asking if piracy was legal.

i have reasons to suspect this untrue based on my location and experience. i checked this less than 30 seconds ago.

I assume from your phrasing that you are Danish, if so; Give me a head's up, and I'll provide you with several sources in your inbox.

i was vague in my description for a reason. i don't need information about this anymore than what i have now.

Quite the mystery-man, eh?
Feel free to emerge yourself in your world of wonders.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Original post: In light of recent event in Denmark (Thepiratebay.org has been censored by all Danish internet providers) I feel I need to resurrect this topic. I know there's been another one recently, last week I think, but this is quite serious since this is real.

Rather unsurprised at the pirate bay being censored over there, they are sort of on everyone's sh*t list. At times like this I just don my eye patch and pirate hat, turn to the jolly roger on my wall and let out a long "arrr har harrr". Then I get a beer...

 

[theultimateend]

Don't you dare stop. *applauds anyone who is against people pirating because they are cheapskates*

And with this I'm out.

If this thread is just going to turn into a bunch of uninformed elitist banter I can't take it.

"All drug addicts are weak willed retards, All piracy is because of cheapskats, and if your government sucks you should change it because its a reasonable thing to ask of any person!

Also Unicorns are real."

 

[Avatar Roku]

I've never ever seen definitive evidence that supports the fact that people pirate in large majority just to steal I hear people talk about it like they are scholars. Everyone I've ever known has used this option as a resource to make sound judgements on their purchases, just like going down to a dealership and testing out a car.

If you want to try before you buy, well and good. If the company that made the game/movie/whathaveyou didn't make such a demo legal, then its illegal. End of story.

 

[Finnboghi]

-snip-

1, he called me a bastard
b, so what? you think that because an illegal website is censored, other legitimate websites are in danger? what logic is that based on?

How about I make my point clear.

Say if I go onto the pirate bay with every policeman in australia behind me, and all the judges and lawyers too.

I'm not breaking the law. I can refresh the page a million times and I'm still hundred percent fine.

Now I download a torrent.

Well now I am in a legal grey area.

Download the game illegally.

Well now im totally in the red.

The accessing the website isn't illegal, the act of downloading the torrent is.

Denmark has removed the initial stage, effectively stopping a non-illegal action. To use a metaphor, Instead of legal action against people taking drugs and selling drugs, they have made it illegal to talk to the drug dealer, no matter the context. Which is entirely wrong, and very totalatarian.

With a precedent now behind them (assuming no public outcry or legal case) they can spread their wings to things such as gagging websites abusing the government as they consider them "linked with terrorism". Or perhaps anything which abused the royals is censored.

Perhaps things which are considered wrong by the conservatives in denmark, like certain pornography, or perhaps censoring the entire youtube because it has some illegal content, despite the fact youtube itself censors its material.

Do you see now how it could get very nasty? Already in australia there is a possibility that MSN might be broken and Legal P2P or Direct connecting between computers (e.g. Hamachi) could be destroyed due to the attempt at censorship.

Completely right, but your metaphor is a little odd.

I'd say it's more like arresting the captain who takes the container ship back and forth from South America to North America. His job is to get merchandise (which he doesn't control) from point A to point B, whether the containers contain illegal drugs or legal teddy bears.

Anyways.

This is getting ridiculous. There have been talks of certain groups restricting whatever they feel is "wrong".

Frankly, this gets down to elitism. The moment one group decides they can tell another what they should think, believe, do, or not do, something is very wrong.

...Is it just me, or does every "-ism" do this? (Catholicism, feminism, Marxism, to name a few.)

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Don't you dare stop. *applauds anyone who is against people pirating because they are cheapskates*

And with this I'm out.

If this thread is just going to turn into a bunch of uninformed elitist banter I can't take it.

"All drug addicts are weak willed retards, All piracy is because of cheapskats, and if your government sucks you should change it because its a reasonable thing to ask of any person!

Also Unicorns are real."

Considering you basically said "They are overcharging us, so we should be allowed to steal their movies", I believe that calling you a cheapskate was quite reasonable.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Don't you dare stop. *applauds anyone who is against people pirating because they are cheapskates*

And with this I'm out.

If this thread is just going to turn into a bunch of uninformed elitist banter I can't take it.

"All drug addicts are weak willed retards, All piracy is because of cheapskats, and if your government sucks you should change it because its a reasonable thing to ask of any person!

Also Unicorns are real."

Oh come on, you were just arguing that you pirate because you don't want to get suckered out of money. Doing something illegal to save a few bucks seems a bit cheapskatish (word?) to me. Also, why is elitist the big insult these days?

The fact that the site has a "give-away" name could just be a misunderstanding on your part? A name is a name. "We thought it sounded cool, and were appalled to find out the negative connotations, but sadly it was too late." A name doesn't make a website illegal, and you were arguing/asking if piracy was legal.

Fair enough on the name part. Just to set the record straight, I was only asking about the piracy to make absolutely sure. I don't know other country's laws so well.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Considering that multiple companies and websites have been caught getting bribed to provide good reviews for products I'd like to know where this readily available info is. I mean even on the escapist you can't get reasonable views on games. Minimum requirement information is always wrong.

Yes okay but you know what use a little common sense if you can't tell if you are going to like a game then your a bit beyond my help. Also there are forums and friends and such that give harsh reviews of products. And yeah minimum requirements are wrong so guess what look at the Recommended and see if you exceed that or go on a forum and say hey i have X specs will this run.

 

[s0denone]

The fact that the site has a "give-away" name could just be a misunderstanding on your part? A name is a name. "We thought it sounded cool, and were appalled to find out the negative connotations, but sadly it was too late." A name doesn't make a website illegal, and you were arguing/asking if piracy was legal.

Fair enough on the name part. Just to set the record straight, I was only asking about the piracy to make absolutely sure. I don't know other country's laws so well.

Fair play to you, sir, I was just answering your questions to the best of my knowledge. And no problem, I'll be happy to look into something more; If you'd like. Something about Denmark and piracy, mind you. Not everything.

 

[Logan94]

Why doesn't anybody get the American freedom of speech aspect. YOu can say anything until it inflicts on someone else's rights. So untill you endanger someones health (for example, yelling "fire" in a building, someone can get hurt), insult them, or just plain offend them. So if someone is shouting obsinities in public, a poliece officer just has to asy anybody if they are offended, and if anybody is offended, the he can take the person who is shouting in. The only reason barely anyone enforces that is because people are missinformed on this subject. So to sum it up, you can say anything, unless it inflicts on someone elses rights.

 

[Logan94]

Sorry, not a good speller.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Why doesn't anybody get the American freedom of speech aspect. YOu can say anything until it inflicts on someone else's rights. So untill you endanger someones health (for example, yelling "fire" in a building, someone can get hurt), insult them, or just plain offend them. So if someone is shouting obsinities in public, a poliece officer just has to asy anybody if they are offended, and if anybody is offended, the he can take the person who is shouting in. The only reason barely anyone enforces that is because people are missinformed on this subject. So to sum it up, you can say anything, unless it inflicts on someone elses rights.

1)That's America, we're talking about Denmark, not sure how the laws compare.
2)This speech most definitely is infringing on others' rights, such as the right to not be stolen from.

 

[woodwalker]

Why the HELL does child pornography always get brought up in this? has anything so far worked against child porn? Answer the question. Can you? You can, but you don't like the answer, do you? The thing is, criminals will always be criminals, because they BREAK LAWS! All of you moral do-gooders should realize this. Censorship is bad, no matter what the reason. If the US would amend the Constitution so as to allow them to remove any and all traces of child porn (which we should do), Then I would be happy. This would give them the ability to shut it down in all of its forms. What we are talking about is censoring pirate sites, which should not be done. Piracy, like prostitution, is a victimless crime. The only people who are really hurting is the musicians, who get paid metric ass-loads of money. There is a good episode of Southpark about this.

Censoring is wrong, no matter what is being censored. I guess that could be the fact that I am a proud Libertarian, though.

 

[Logan94]

Why doesn't anybody get the American freedom of speech aspect. YOu can say anything until it inflicts on someone else's rights. So untill you endanger someones health (for example, yelling "fire" in a building, someone can get hurt), insult them, or just plain offend them. So if someone is shouting obsinities in public, a poliece officer just has to asy anybody if they are offended, and if anybody is offended, the he can take the person who is shouting in. The only reason barely anyone enforces that is because people are missinformed on this subject. So to sum it up, you can say anything, unless it inflicts on someone elses rights.

1)That's America, we're talking about Denmark, not sure how the laws compare.
2)This speech most definitely is infringing on others' rights, such as the right to not be stolen from.

People were saying that this would spread to America.

 

[s0denone]

Why the HELL does child pornography always get brought up in this? has anything so far worked against child porn? Answer the question. Can you? You can, but you don't like the answer, do you? The thing is, criminals will always be criminals, because they BREAK LAWS! All of you moral do-gooders should realize this. Censorship is bad, no matter what the reason. If the US would amend the Constitution so as to allow them to remove any and all traces of child porn (which we should do), Then I would be happy. This would give them the ability to shut it down in all of its forms. What we are talking about is censoring pirate sites, which should not be done. Piracy, like prostitution, is a victimless crime. The only people who are really hurting is the musicians, who get paid metric ass-loads of money. There is a good episode of Southpark about this.

Censoring is wrong, no matter what is being censored. I guess that could be the fact that I am a proud Libertarian, though.

I've seldom seen a first-time-post that I've agreed with so heartedly.
Thank you, and welcome to the Escapist!

 

[theultimateend]

Why the HELL does child pornography always get brought up in this? has anything so far worked against child porn? Answer the question. Can you? You can, but you don't like the answer, do you? The thing is, criminals will always be criminals, because they BREAK LAWS! All of you moral do-gooders should realize this. Censorship is bad, no matter what the reason. If the US would amend the Constitution so as to allow them to remove any and all traces of child porn (which we should do), Then I would be happy. This would give them the ability to shut it down in all of its forms. What we are talking about is censoring pirate sites, which should not be done. Piracy, like prostitution, is a victimless crime. The only people who are really hurting is the musicians, who get paid metric ass-loads of money. There is a good episode of Southpark about this.

Censoring is wrong, no matter what is being censored. I guess that could be the fact that I am a proud Libertarian, though.

While I could never agree with being a libertarian (which in no way effects you ) the rest of what you said is fantastic . However much like insulting DoWII on most threads on this site you probably are about to get a bunch of "Nuh UH! I know its hurts because I think so!" Regardless of no evidence supporting that view.