Child suspended for his religious beliefs

[G1eet]

That has to be the best religion evar.

Uh...... i think the school did a good thing i mean who the hell goes to school dressed as a pirate?

Oh u.
Did you actually read the link? Or the title? Or.. anything? He dressed as a pirate for his religious beliefs.

Yes, yes, and he "practices" a religion that was only created to mock another global religion.

So, I'm going to side with the administration here, because I see that as a pretty big dick move extraordinaire. Then again, there's all that fuff about first amendment rights. At least he didn't get abducted by the suits and forcefully converted to a "safe" religion.

And if he didn't like how he wasn't able to teach what he wanted, why didn't he just move to a more secular state? C'mon fellas, it's Kansas. No offense to anybody out there from Kansas, but seriously, if you're going to make a conservatism joke, you're not going to make fun of Alaska.

I thought it could be a viable religion until I read that they worship the "Flying Spahghetti Monster". You can't just make up your own religion and expect people to heed to your beliefs without question.

Why not? Isn't that how every other religion started?

"Every other religion" wasn't started in retaliation to mock the previous religion just to prove a point.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Not that I expect or encourage you to believe in the Big Bang Theory, but your statement makes me curious: were you somehow privy to hard evidence of whatever religion you believe in? Also, your avatar makes me dizzy, lol.

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

The human body wasn't made ya noob. It was grown and refined over millions upon millions of years of natural selection. Thats how evolution works. (And yes, we can recreate the idea of bringing life from nothing truly living. Scientists have done many experiments involving amino acids and have come forward with repeatable results)

 

[dududf]

ALL HEIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!!

MAY HE EMBRACE US WITH HIS NOODLE ARM!!!!

R'AMEN!!!

XD

 

[G1eet]

Not that I expect or encourage you to believe in the Big Bang Theory, but your statement makes me curious: were you somehow privy to hard evidence of whatever religion you believe in? Also, your avatar makes me dizzy, lol.

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

The human body wasn't made ya noob. It was grown and refined over millions upon millions of years of natural selection. Thats how evolution works. (And yes, we can recreate the idea of bringing life from nothing truly living. Scientists have done many experiments involving amino acids and have come forward with repeatable results)

Pffft, panspermia is much more believable.

/sarcasm

Though I'd like to believe panspermia is true. Then we know that life is out there, not just assume.

 

[Valine]

"Every other religion" wasn't started in retaliation to mock the previous religion just to prove a point.

You're right "every other religion" was started to make money, brainwash people, or otherwise control individuals.

 

[Skeleon]

I have no reason to believe that any religion is serious and that people are just following it to get attention and friends and the pastors follow it for easy money and to feel control... Prove thats not true and that people who claim faith aren't just lying for attention and to fit in.

Well, I can't prove it beyond any doubt and you're well aware of that, but looking at martyrs, murderers, crusaders and terrorists, one can come to the conclusion that these people follow some un-secular ideas to the point of death.
One can further deduct that these people believe in something beyond death, otherwise there wouldn't be any motivation for their actions. And I'm not talking about the higher-ups, who are often politcally motivated. I'm talking about the lowly suicide-bomber, the fervent crusader, the abortion clinic bomber, the self-flailing monk...
These actions would not make any sense without un-secular motivations behind them.
Now you might argue that they behave that way because they're crazy or whatever, but considering the large scale these acts happened and still happen, that is very unlikely. Not impossible, true, but highly unlikely.

As with anything that deals with the inner workings of people's minds, there cannot be a complete certainty. However, when a person claims to honestly believe in a known parody of religion that was established as such, the burden of proof is upon said person.
It's common sense to question such faith whereas faith in a) established religions or b) unknown/unpopular but as religion established beliefs is much more likely.

EDIT: If he claimed to, for example, worship Thor, that too would be much more believable than the FSM. Hell, even "the great tentacle monster from the moon Io" or whatever would be more believable for the simple fact that it would not be established as a parody. I know that this doesn't prove he doesn't believe in the FSM, but it makes it much, much more unlikely.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I've found a religion I can follow.

 

[man-man]

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

Two points I need to make here. First and most important, there is nothing in science that claims that the human body came about "by accident", "by chance" or any such absurdity. That is entirely a strawman created by creationists to mislead people into agreeing with them. I agree, it's absurd to suggest that a human being could come about by chance, but evolution by natural selection is absolutely not a chance process.

The only random part is mutation, everything after that is relatively deterministic - a beneficial mutation increases the likelihood that the mutated gene allele will be found in the next generation, whereas a detrimental mutation decreases those odds. With successive generations successful genes will rise in frequency in the gene pool, and be found in more of the species. As time goes by, differences accumulate and large-scale noticeable changes to an animal can become apparent.

Each tiny step is a little bit improbable, but only a little bit - sufficiently possible to believably happen. Factor in the colossal time scale involved and truly remarkable changes can come about, to the point where it seems impossible that the ancestor could be related to the descendant, but yet the evidence that it is so is overwhelming.

The second point I wanted to make was that it's really the religious claim that requires the greater improbability - you struggle to believe that a complex entity like a human being could "just happen", but you seem to accept without question that an infinitely complex entity like a god did just that. Your postulated creator is more complex than the creation it seeks to explain, and if god can "always have existed" or "be his own cause" or any such thing, then why can the universe itself not just be a bald fact of existence?

 

[TheNumber1Zero]

They have no right to infringe on the kids religious rights llike that.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Not that I expect or encourage you to believe in the Big Bang Theory, but your statement makes me curious: were you somehow privy to hard evidence of whatever religion you believe in? Also, your avatar makes me dizzy, lol.

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

The human body wasn't made ya noob. It was grown and refined over millions upon millions of years of natural selection. Thats how evolution works. (And yes, we can recreate the idea of bringing life from nothing truly living. Scientists have done many experiments involving amino acids and have come forward with repeatable results)

Pffft, panspermia is much more believable.

/sarcasm

Though I'd like to believe panspermia is true. Then we know that life is out there, not just assume.

Well it didn't have to be brought here from other sources (The life that is) just the materials for life were brought here, got a good zap (In lamens terms) and started that pot cookin!

I believe there could be other life out there. I mean the thought that trillions x trillions x possible infinity galaxies out there are all lifeless is kinda hard for me to believe. Though what constitutes life could possibly defy what we constitute as possible. (Hell, there could be a water planet of Blogs, creatures who communicate solely through farts for all we know >.<) I would be lying if I said we have seen 1% of our galaxy. I would be lying if an entire 200 forum pages could hold enough zeroes to properly display the fraction of the universe we have seen clear enough to pass judgement. *Shrugs* who knows.

 

[grayjo]

So... Wearing head scarves is ok... Christian crosses is ok...

So if I went to school wearing both... would that be ok?

or are only the religious precious enough to get concessions?

 

[G1eet]

"Every other religion" wasn't started in retaliation to mock the previous religion just to prove a point.

You're right "every other religion" was started to make money, brainwash people, or otherwise control individuals.

Ahh, your flame bait is delicious.

I'd like to see your proof on that, not just opinion. I believe Scientology may have been created with that mindset, but that's just my opinion.

So unless you can prove to me that Siddhartha Gautama- who willingly gave up all of his inherent wealth to follow what he believed in- then I call bull.

Also, go interview the pre-Aryans who founded Hinduism. They now "control" 900 million people. I don't think they were thinking of material gain wayyy back in 400 B.C.E.

Or whenever it was founded.

Here's a question: ARE Muslim kids in America allowed to wear burqas? It's a comparison I'm seeing a lot in this thread, but I've never heard of a case in this country where someone tried to bring one to school. I would think that would be terribly disruptive as well. Especially when you consider the lengths a lot of places already go to in order to make sure kids aren't bringing guns and drugs to school.

They are in my school district.

We get at least 2 Islamic exchange students (you know, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, etc.) every year, not to mention the regulars. It's somewhere in the Code of Conduct; I'm just too lazy to dictate it. It's something along the lines of "Students may not wear any headwear during a normal school day, except for religious or medical purposes".

 

[WhiteTiger225]

I have no reason to believe that any religion is serious and that people are just following it to get attention and friends and the pastors follow it for easy money and to feel control... Prove thats not true and that people who claim faith aren't just lying for attention and to fit in.

Well, I can't prove it beyond any doubt and you're well aware of that, but looking at martyrs, murderers, crusaders and terrorists, one can come to the conclusion that these people follow some un-secular ideas to the point of death.
One can further deduct that these people believe in something beyond death, otherwise there wouldn't be any motivation for their actions. And I'm not talking about the higher-ups, who are often politcally motivated. I'm talking about the lowly suicide-bomber, the fervent crusader, the abortion clinic bomber, the self-flailing monk...
These actions would not make any sense without un-secular motivations behind them.
Now you might argue that they behave that way because they're crazy or whatever, but considering the large scale these acts happened and still happen, that is very unlikely. Not impossible, true, but highly unlikely.

As with anything that deals with the inner workings of people's minds, there cannot be a complete certainty. However, when a person claims to honestly believe in a known parody of religion that was established as such, the burden of proof is upon said person.
It's common sense to question such faith whereas faith in a) established religions or b) unknown/unpopular but as religion established beliefs is much more likely.

EDIT: If he claimed to, for example, worship Thor, that too would be much more believable than the FSM. Hell, even "the great tentacle monster from the moon Io" or whatever would be more believable for the simple fact that it would not be established as a parody. I know that this doesn't prove he doesn't believe in the FSM, but it makes it much, much more unlikely.

I will give you that, but on the same note, we have witness cults brainwashing people. And what is a cult but just a smaller sect on the religious poster board?

 

[WhiteTiger225]

"Every other religion" wasn't started in retaliation to mock the previous religion just to prove a point.

You're right "every other religion" was started to make money, brainwash people, or otherwise control individuals.

Ahh, your flame bait is delicious.

I'd like to see your proof on that, not just opinion. I believe Scientology may have been created with that mindset, but that's just my opinion.

So unless you can prove to me that Siddhartha Gautama- who willingly gave up all of his inherent wealth to follow what he believed in- then I call bull.

Also, go interview the pre-Aryans who founded Hinduism. They now "control" 900 million people. I don't think they were thinking of material gain wayyy back in 400 B.C.E.

Or whenever it was founded.

Here's a question: ARE Muslim kids in America allowed to wear burqas? It's a comparison I'm seeing a lot in this thread, but I've never heard of a case in this country where someone tried to bring one to school. I would think that would be terribly disruptive as well. Especially when you consider the lengths a lot of places already go to in order to make sure kids aren't bringing guns and drugs to school.

They are in my school district.

We get at least 2 Islamic exchange students (you know, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, etc.) every year, not to mention the regulars. It's somewhere in the Code of Conduct; I'm just too lazy to dictate it. It's something along the lines of "Students may not wear any headwear during a normal school day, except for religious or medical purposes".

Fuckin ill people getting special privelages.. I hope they catch some horrible dis-oooooh....

OT: Our police force has two guys wearing turbans due to religious beliefs... if you don't want to take off your turban, find a job that allows hats. Don't ask for, and receive special treatment.

 

[G1eet]

Not that I expect or encourage you to believe in the Big Bang Theory, but your statement makes me curious: were you somehow privy to hard evidence of whatever religion you believe in? Also, your avatar makes me dizzy, lol.

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

The human body wasn't made ya noob. It was grown and refined over millions upon millions of years of natural selection. Thats how evolution works. (And yes, we can recreate the idea of bringing life from nothing truly living. Scientists have done many experiments involving amino acids and have come forward with repeatable results)

Pffft, panspermia is much more believable.

/sarcasm

Though I'd like to believe panspermia is true. Then we know that life is out there, not just assume.

Well it didn't have to be brought here from other sources (The life that is) just the materials for life were brought here, got a good zap (In lamens terms) and started that pot cookin!

I believe there could be other life out there. I mean the thought that trillions x trillions x possible infinity galaxies out there are all lifeless is kinda hard for me to believe. Though what constitutes life could possibly defy what we constitute as possible. (Hell, there could be a water planet of Blogs, creatures who communicate solely through farts for all we know >.<) I would be lying if I said we have seen 1% of our galaxy. I would be lying if an entire 200 forum pages could hold enough zeroes to properly display the fraction of the universe we have seen clear enough to pass judgement. *Shrugs* who knows.

But that's just it. We can assume to nearly doubtless proportions, but we don't know for sure. Which makes me glad that I was born when I was- I think this is the age when we'll finally see life in outer space.

Under Ares' ice caps, or in the frozen sea of Titan; who knows.

hehehe communication by flatulence.

Edit:

Fuckin ill people getting special privelages.. I hope they catch some horrible dis-oooooh....

OT: Our police force has two guys wearing turbans due to religious beliefs... if you don't want to take off your turban, find a job that allows hats. Don't ask for, and receive special treatment.

To clarify- medical purposes means like wearing a helmet if you had severe head trauma, or other such examples.

My friends had to wear a bike helmet in p.e. for like two years because he fell from a high branch and landed on the roots that had popped up from the ground.

Yes, ouch.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Not that I expect or encourage you to believe in the Big Bang Theory, but your statement makes me curious: were you somehow privy to hard evidence of whatever religion you believe in? Also, your avatar makes me dizzy, lol.

No, it's just that the idea that being created by intelligent design just makes more sense to me. The way everything in the universe just runs like clockwork, I find it hard to believe that it was just accident. Think about the way that everything works... the human body is extremely complex. I just think that there's no way that something that complicated could have been accidentally made.

The human body wasn't made ya noob. It was grown and refined over millions upon millions of years of natural selection. Thats how evolution works. (And yes, we can recreate the idea of bringing life from nothing truly living. Scientists have done many experiments involving amino acids and have come forward with repeatable results)

Pffft, panspermia is much more believable.

/sarcasm

Though I'd like to believe panspermia is true. Then we know that life is out there, not just assume.

Well it didn't have to be brought here from other sources (The life that is) just the materials for life were brought here, got a good zap (In lamens terms) and started that pot cookin!

I believe there could be other life out there. I mean the thought that trillions x trillions x possible infinity galaxies out there are all lifeless is kinda hard for me to believe. Though what constitutes life could possibly defy what we constitute as possible. (Hell, there could be a water planet of Blogs, creatures who communicate solely through farts for all we know >.<) I would be lying if I said we have seen 1% of our galaxy. I would be lying if an entire 200 forum pages could hold enough zeroes to properly display the fraction of the universe we have seen clear enough to pass judgement. *Shrugs* who knows.

But that's just it. We can assume to nearly doubtless proportions, but we don't know for sure. Which makes me glad that I was born when I was- I think this is the age when we'll finally see life in outer space.

Under Ares' ice caps, or in the frozen sea of Titan; who knows.

hehehe communication by flatulence.

Thank Zero Punctuation for that one

 

[WhiteTiger225]

And why can't he believe it? It's okay for someone to wear a cross that represents a invisible bearded man who lives in a cloud, punishes those who go against his orders that he had a man write down for him and so forth? Same concept goes to muslim religion. They should be suspended for wearing headwear during class.

He can believe it but I doubt he does. That's all I'm saying!
I know you're trying to say "everything has the same value" but that's not fully true. A religion gains it's value as a religion through faith so unless he really believes this stuff, he is just trying to be a rebel and make a statement.

Again, read what I wrote: If he really believes, he should still not wear a fully stereotypical pirate outfit (because it disrupts classes) but he should be allowed to wear pirate-type clothing to compromise with his beliefs.

If he really believed then, yes, his religion however wacky, would be just as valuable as any other. But I have no reason to assume that he does really believe in it seeing as this "religion" was created to point out logical fallacies in other religions, not become an actual religion itself.

I have no reason to believe that any religion is serious and that people are just following it to get attention and friends and the pastors follow it for easy money and to feel control... Prove thats not true and that people who claim faith aren't just lying for attention and to fit in.

This behavior is actually worse than trolling.

"He doesn't buy my bullshit. Quick, I must find a way to publically root him out in order to destroy his credibility! HE'S A TROLL!!!!" - Translation of text written by Cheeze Pavilion