Child suspended for his religious beliefs
- Thread starter The Kangaroo
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god, stop acting like a stereotypical christiantiredinnuendo said:
it says more about christians when they get offended by this then it does about the kid
it says he'd been warned
he shouldnt of even been warned, obviously, if you warn him, he's gonna carry on doing it cause he's getting the attention he's seeking
and making fun of religious people is fine
it's called satire, religious people seriously need to get over themselves
if they're comfortable with their beliefs and someone parodies them, then they should be able to shrug it off
But therein lies the problem. It's a well known fact that the Church of the FSM was created in retaliation to decisions made by a highly conservative, Christian-biased school system. So I don't care if the kid believes in it, I just don't like him wearing clothes that mock the biggest religion in the world. that I'm actually a part of. I don't mind people that don't believe in any higher power; I do mind the people that waive their rights around and make life less bearable for other faithful individuals. So you have an opinion, big whup.WhiteTiger225 said:
Doesn't mean I have the right to wear a loincloth and carry a large wooden cross in Biology class.
But you can't honestly believe that every religion was started in order to take advantage of one's fellow man? There may be some poisonous drops in the huge dogma bucket, but that doesn't mean it spoils the batch.Valine said:
You may not have a senses of faith in a higher power or understanding, but many others do. Many who grew up outside the influence of religion have come into their own. Christianity was started by a carpenter who believed that you should treat everybody else as you would want to be treated yourself. Whatever his religion has become isn't his fault; human beings can be corrupt; that's a fact of life.
That doesn't mean every clergyman, monk, pilgrim to Mecca, or shaman is corrupt. Nor does it give you license to assume so.
Then it'd still be a disturbance but making a compromise (old style striped shirt, leather boots, pirate head scarf and such, but no big pirate hats, no hook-hands, no eye-patches, no POLLY WANTS A CRACKER YA BOOTY LUGGERS!) would be the best option.Swollen Goat said:
Real faith creates real issues and the need for accomodations. I'm not religious myself but I can see how people who truly believe would be harmed if we forced some of the things on them that are perfectly normal and acceptable to us.
Bounds of reason, of course.
Yes I can, and, yes, I do. To put it simply, and this is an extremely truncated explanation, religions are nothing but things made by man to make himself feel better about the world around him - some individuals, seeing how the ones with the "answers" were being looked up to created their own mythology so they could have power over others. That is how I view all religions, as scams and deceptions.G1eet said:
Why can't I? I have believed this for the longest time that "Faith" is another term for "Buying our bullshit" and that followers are brainwashed through culturism, false promises, and control of lives. Just like I can believe that, how can you deny someone their beliefs just because you think they are joking without actual proof? I mean, prove to me the logic of a magical being that acts pretty much like a year 'round santa clause (Just more agreesively) giving someone the right to get special treatment and exceptions from rules. I mean, why does the Ten Commandments say "Thou shalt obey the law of man" yet christian orgnizations still ***** when the commandments are taken out of a church and that swearing on the bible is next to go despite such things breaking the law of men? I am about fair treatment, and giving a girl the right to wear her burka or a man to wear his turban just because their imaginary friend says too makes me side with the kid even if he is found to be lying out his ass. You either punish both, or punish none, it's that simple. If you take away his right to break school rules and dress in pirate garb, you must also strip that right to break school rules from (other) religious folk as NO ONE should gain special treatment outside of medical reasons.G1eet said:
Edit: And sadly I must go despite this turning out to be a fun debate with little flaming going on that seems to actually have both sides saying "Well I see your point, BUT" rather then "OMG JOO NOOB U R RONG!" like most professional debates of this type turn out to >.> (That goes for both sides, not just the theists)
So you're categorically opposed to people mocking your religion? I'm opposed to being force-fed Christianity by the faithful. If you can get offended by someone saying they don't believe in God and there's nothing you can do about it (usually followed by an emphatic sticking their tongue at you) then I can be offended by being constantly told I'm going to burn because I don't believe. If you enjoy the religious freedom you have in this country then you have to respect all the opposing viewpoints even when they directly conflict with yours. You want to wear your Crucifix? He can wear an eye-patch.G1eet said:
So you believe that there is no such thing as a singular religion that merely believes in the self? A man can become a deist/theist- hell, even an agnostic- through life and never once go to any mass congregation for any religion and never receive any "religious education"- what would you say to that?Valine said:
Sure, I was raised Catholic, but my distrust in humanity is starting to turn my faith inward and upward- I do believe in something bigger than ourselves. Whether it's a giant extragalactic Italian culinary dish, a humongous Norse tree, or a postmortem sentient hive mind, or... whatever. I just believe in something bigger than our reality.
The Church of the FSM was technically created to mock the theory of Intelligent Design and its place in the public school system. Since Islam is the largest (meaning possessing the most active practitioners in the world) religion in the world, I fail to see how this has any impact on your ideological system.G1eet said:
OT: While I would normally support the student in his efforts to practice his desired religion (I feel, for some reason, that I must qualify all this by stating that I am agnostic), I think it's fairly likely that this kid was not doing this because he is an active follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I suspect that he was either doing this for shock value, or to mock the Christian, Jewish, and/or Islamic students in his class. As a result, I can't condone what he did, because the motivations behind it likely had nothing to do with faith, and doing so would simply undermine the point of religious expression. Allowing this child to behave however he wishes under the guise of a religion he likely stumbled across surfing Myspace or Facebook, would simply give others a precedent to do even more odd, disturbing, or hurtful things under the mask of legitimate religious expression.
In short, I'd be okay with the child doing what he did, if I honestly believed that it had something to do with his faith.
Well, crosses for example. If we weren't ready to accomodate the religious folk, we'd force them to not wear any crosses in school because they represent their religion and might influence others while attending school. With school supposedly being fully secular!Swollen Goat said:
Now is it right to stop these people wearing crosses just because they represent religion? In my opinion, no. Same goes for burqas or kippahs or whatever else might represent their religion.
Or think about religious actions. A person in distress praying to whatever they believe in in a public space. Would it be okay to interfere with this prayer and force the person to "move along"? I'm not saying we should let people start prayer sessions whereever they want but let's use a little common sense. One person praying doesn't harm anybody and may help the person in question with whatever is troubling them at the moment. So let them finish, then get them to move on.
As long as religion stays out of the actual education (e.g. Intelligent Design instead of Evolution) I don't mind private people expressing their religion as long as it doesn't inhibit others' freedoms. And honestly, how does a guy wearing a kippah limit my or your freedoms?
That would be highly oppressive for everyone who has religious beliefs. It would inevitably inspire uprisings which would possibly be violent, and I wouldn't blame them.MusicalFreedom said:
OP: I think the kid is a hero who deserves a hi-five, a cutlass sharpener and his own galleon. I'd also like to mention that while I am a communist, I am against secularism as I see it as oppressive.
Last I checked, the largest religion in the world was Christianity. And it has nothing to do with my ideological system; it's the principle of it. I have no problem with someone believing in something bigger than themselves, I just have a problem with someone mocking that belief.LockeDown said:
FYI, that last part about not having the license to do so was for the other guy. I was feeling fairly amicable toward your opinion- that is, you weren't rubbing my face in it.WhiteTiger225 said:
My standing- you can have your own beliefs, just don't flaunt them like a loon. I look down upon this pirate fella as much as I do the people that burned mosques and temples in post 9/11 America because they thought they were terrorists.
They were Sikhs for fuck's sake.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=0e9d8c7691c3cf1bbbd176fab80c985c
(Sorry, it's just something I remember from a few years ago that helps my point)
Ignorance is bliss, but it's not a license for doing whatever you want.
Don't merge Christian stereotypes. I'm a Catholic, but that doesn't mean I believe in going door to door and yelling at people to "join or die" like the Jehovah's Witnesses. Spreading the "word" doesn't necessarily mean spewing Bible passages at 100 mph- it can be acting on them, like donating to the poor or making someone's day brighter by doing any old good deed.Riding on Thermals said:
Well, it depends. If the school has a clearly stated uniform code which the kid was consciously and blatantly violating, then frankly the school did the right thing. Even for a satirical religion like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, using the excuse "it's part of my religion" to justify ignoring clearly stated rules is not sending a good message; after all, the justification muslim extremists use for stoning women to death for adultery (i.e murder) is that it's part of their religion.
On the other hand, if the school doesn't have a uniform code and the kid was suspended because of what he WAS wearing instead of simply what he WASN'T (i.e uniform) then the kid is perfectly within his rights to wear full pirate regalia, especially on a holy day.
Everything is a matter of perspective.
On the other hand, if the school doesn't have a uniform code and the kid was suspended because of what he WAS wearing instead of simply what he WASN'T (i.e uniform) then the kid is perfectly within his rights to wear full pirate regalia, especially on a holy day.
Everything is a matter of perspective.
Okay since when has this been recognized as an actual religion? I mean one could say they worship a can of aerosol spray, but I think that something actually has to be accepted as a religion to claim that it is one. At least I think so.