CRACKED: "6 Sexist Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts"

[ThreeName]

"In the recent demo Hotline Miami 2: Wrong Number, Pig Butcher approaches the only woman in the demo with the screen ordering "FINISH HER" and drops his pants. Then the director screams "Cut!" Of course they wouldn't rape a woman! They'd just threaten to rape a woman, which makes it hilarious!"

>>Impyling anyone tried to defend it for being humourous

Oh lawd.

Clearly written by a hippie, who gives a fuck, let's all move on.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

**snip**

I don't need to be a master chef to know when my burger tastes like shit. I can tell the cook that he's doing something wrong though, so that his food is less shitty in the future and I can keep giving him money.

A cook and a corporation are not the same thing, but I'll bite. Sure you can tell the cook his food sucks, but if his business is booming and you're the minority dissent he probably won't change things. Which is a point we seem to be at in games, the talk is there but the publishers don't care enough because while it looks like the issue is prevalent, you may not be heard back in the proverbial kitchen over the sound of cash flowing in.
And since in the gaming industry it seems that no matter where we take our business, this issue is still present, the only other choice is to start something new and take the risk.
Making games aren't as easy as cooking though... So the analogy don't hold up, but the premise is still there. If you talk to the "cook" and get no response, take your business elsewhere and find the burgers suck too, either quit eating burgers, make your own or set up shop for people to find out what a "good" burger tastes like.
Also, just because some video games are full of these tropes doesn't mean they suck. It just means a certain demographic is missing and someone needs to fill the void with something that will break the glass ceiling.
Biggest point is and always will be that I hear a lot of talk and a lot of repetition, but haven't seen much in the way of action on behalf of the issue. I also feel that a lot of people talk big on forums in order to look like they care and thus get the stamp of approval from the faceless avatars.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

On the one hand, sexism is something gaming needs to come to terms with.

On the other hand, Cracked is a terrible website with articles replete in poorly researched straw-man arguments. Unless it's written by Seanbaby, don't bother.

 

[Aramis Night]

I usually love cracked articles (especially anything by Seanbaby), but this was pretty bad. Its started off with at least some humor in the beggining at least, but then became about as funny as Critical Miss by the end. I'd be embarrassed to have my name attached to it. Of course it seems whoever wrote it feels the same way.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Obviously different because we're talking about message boards, not sharing sites, but the concept is the same. The Escapist is elitist, mysoginist, and has a fascist moderating team. That's its "thing", its character gimmick, what have you.

*sigh* We didn't used to be like that; we used to be pretty laid back and thoughtful. Used to be if someone was being a raging fuckwad you could call them out on it without fear of mod repercussion, that if someone was clearly trolling you wouldn't get hit with the banhammer for calling them out on it, that if someone was being an idiot you could call them that then list the various reasons why they were wrong.

Now? Well now every discussion here has devolved into slap fights that spend more time lobbing passive aggressive BS than just calling someone a spit dribbling idiot, and getting back to the discussion at hand. One by one the old pillars of the community were taken out by the banhammer, the voices of reason were cowed into quiet submission, the once friendly and well known moderators became fickle anonymous enforcers, and slowly rule after rule created a maze of etiquette that cause all to eventually fall to the banhammer.

Five years ago these forums were a utopic bastion of a community. In that time something changed, gradually mind you, and we lost what made this place special.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I recently learned that The Escapist hates women. Which, in hindsight, is kind of like recently learning the sun rises in the same place ever day.

The sun doesn't rise in the same place everyday.
http://bit.ly/14ozUd9

If I told you I actually knew that but couldn't think of an appropriate synecdoche other than "the sky is blue", would you believe me?

I still deserve that for saying it, though.

Okay, I will defend Elizabeth for as long as I can. I believe she represents a deconstruction of the damsel in distress. Sure, Booker has to save her a few times, but on the flipside, Elizabeth saves him too [from drowning, falling off, and every time the player dies if you get technical.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF - no, I'm sorry. It's a personal thing. It's just...I never want to see the word 'deconstruction' again. Saying something is a "deconstruction" does not invalidate criticism. I think the problem partly is that nobody seems to know what a deconstruction is, just that Watchmen was one.

A deconstruction of a damsel-in-distress would probably be either 1) a selfish and evil woman who compels men to do everything for her, probably by manipulating them either sexually or by appealing to their sense of honor, or 2) a mock-Princess Peach scenario, where the whole needing-to-be-saved is actually an elaborate sex game. Oh, or 2b) where the damsel never actually got kidnapped, she just eloped with the supposed kidnapper.

Now I have not played a single second of Bioshock Infinite, so I can make no statement about Elizabeth's character, but I am reasonably confident she is not a deconstruction of a damsel-in-distress.

snip

The only sweeping generalization I'd make is that people here are incredibly thin-skinned, which is true. I don't know if that's cause of people really thinking it makes them more civilized, or attempting to be politically correct ,or whatever... it's just something that I've seen. For example, in some previous thread I posted in, some guy called me an idiot and got reported, even though I didn't so much as bat an eye at something like that, it's just par for the course.

As any internet community, a lot of the people here are flat-out scumbags. But due to the thin skinned nature of this place, they manifest their scumbaggery through moral superiority, elitism, and snarky comments rather than calling people "faggots".

As for the mods, I always thought this site was auto moderated , like by a script. As mentioned above, the report-happy attitude of the people here is what is causing your impression. The mods here probably operate on the logic of :" If someone reported you, you must have done SOMETHING wrong" and just auto-punish everything, because it's easier and more efficient, what with the huge number of people on this forum.

EDIT: As for misogynist, as mentioned before , a lot of people here have massive hang-ups with women, and they manifest it, whether they notice it or not. Just ignore it and say to yourself "Gee, sure am glad I'm not like them."

Sorry, I wouldn't actually describe the mods here as "fascist", though they are harsh in very specific ways, such that they do act like a computer program you just need to figure out the loopholes to get around, rather than human beings, but that's not true. After all, I've seen the mods post before, so they must be real! =P

Again, it's not that every individual is this way, it's just the flavor of the community. Wikipedia is anal-retentive and its members communicate by quoting Wikipedia's policy at one another, Reddit is Reddit, 4chan is fucking 4chan, etc.

Biggest point is and always will be that I hear a lot of talk and a lot of repetition, but haven't seen much in the way of action on behalf of the issue. I also feel that a lot of people talk big on forums in order to look like they care and thus get the stamp of approval from the faceless avatars.

You do know this is a message board, right? Like, where people talk about stuff. Besides, unlike most, less formal, message boards, you can't even say "I'm working on a steampunk survival-horror game about trans people trying to overcome their own uncertainties about their sexuality and gender identity, but I need someone who has experience coding in the Unreal engine", because you'll experience moderator action for advertising.

Now, obviously, most people aren't going to go and do anything about anything. At best, they'll vote with their wallets. But certainly not everybody. There are undoubtedly tons of people here about to start or in the middle of or have gotten their Computer Science or Game Design degrees (or, tangentially, their Film degrees), or who work at a game studio right now. Plenty of people here have experience making games, even if only for their own personal amusement (hell, even I do). Still others are tapping away at their manuscripts that will change the face of novels, or film, or games. I mean, what are you looking for? A Kickstarter campaign to end sexism? Or perhaps a Change.org petition?

 

[Casual Shinji]

So Ellie crying because she sees Joel again (who for all she knew might not even make it) after having faced overwhelming odds is sexist now too.

...

I'm throwing it out there; I just don't get it anymore.

 

[tomtom94]

I can see the point they're making about Ellie and Elizabeth in a way. Female characters in gaming still fall into the "must be protected" stereotype, and have to be filtered through a male character (Joel/Booker) in order for people to "understand" them.

Given their roles in their respective games, it's not a perfect point, and it was probably foolish to put it as the first one people read because that risks them scrolling straight down to the comments section. It's kind of just an extension of the point about Lara Croft and Samus, really.

I'd also have liked the article to draw attention to the lack of female protagonists in general and the idea that "there are a handful of games that have female protagonists, go play them" doesn't work as a defence of the games industry's current refusal to market games with female protagonists, which can be equated with Hollywood's current belief about movies with black protagonists.

All the other points I agree with though.

The last paragraph deserves to be read, though, as does the fact that "it's not just video games that do this" doesn't work as a defence, at least not if we want gaming to be taken seriously as a medium. It's only through dialogue and not through hyperbole and shouting back that we will actually progress.

 

[generals3]

So Ellie crying because she sees Joel again (who for all she knew might not even make it) after having faced overwhelming odds is sexist now too.

...

I'm throwing it out there; I just don't get it anymore.

You know... I think I get it, apparently a female character has to be like The Boss in MGS3 otherwise it's sexist: she has to be overall plain awesomeness: strong, not dependent on any male at any point and heroic. Anything short of that and it's "sexusm". Because once there is a major flaw to the character it will be focused on and claimed to be sexist.

 

[Pink Gregory]

I can see the point they're making about Ellie and Elizabeth in a way. Female characters in gaming still fall into the "must be protected" stereotype, and have to be filtered through a male character (Joel/Booker) in order for people to "understand" them.

I think the problem I have with this idea is that it condenses characters entirely down to a gender and nothing else. The article doesn't touch on contexts enough to be truly convincing to me (then again, perhaps I'm expecting too much in expecting detailed analysis from Cracked). Of course it would have been interesting to see the plot in a less typical aspect - though in the case of Bioshock Infinite, I was never under the impression that the article's idea of Elizabeth was the case; when taken as an example broadly across the board, then a pattern can be discerned, but taken on it's own, I don't really think the idea holds water.

I 'unno, maybe it's an more of an issue of alternatives not existing rather than the storylines in themselves.

 

[Vegosiux]

I mean some asshole did make a game where you beat the crap out of her.

More than one guy made a game where you shoot and main the hell out of bin Laden, or throw a truckload of shoes at Bush, and I personally used a poster of Michael Schuhmacher as as dartboard back in the 90s.

I'd say Michael Schuhmacher is the only relevant one there. There's a slight difference in appropriate aggression levels between people responsible for thousands of deaths, and some woman on youtube who had the audacity to call a bunch of games sexist.

I'm soooooo glad that I'm not the only person who sees the fault in that.

Oh, it's true they're quite different, the first two were just there to demonstrate a concept of "Beat the hell out of someone you don't like" games are quite established and all.

But my point was more like; yes, I did use to throw sharp and pointy things at a poster of Schuhmacher, but that was just a cheap if petty way to get around my annoyance with the guy. I mean, I wouldn't actually do that to him in person, so I'd find it weird if anyone interpreted it as a threat of violence against his person. It would seem as a gross[footnote]As in "large", not "disgusting"[/footnote] overreaction.

In the same vein, I see a clear difference between the "Beat up Anita" game and actual "***** should die and get raped, in that order" asshattery. The latter is something I simply cannot condone, but the former is, while crass and petty, still not something I'd consider unacceptable.

The problem with indie games is the severe lack of impact they have on consoles, and negligible impact they have, period. Indie games are far from the magic cure.

Indeed, but there is no magic cure at all. If I maybe a smartass for a moment, every journey begins with the first step. When we point at the indie scene and how it's way better than the AAA scene in this regard, we're not patting ourselves on the back and saying "Well, the work here is done". We're pointing out that changes are possible, and it would do a lot more for the cause to offer support to that momentum instead of just talking about it a lot. What I'm trying to say is

In general, it is up to "you" to make things happen, but really, that's going to take time, and a young generation, and it goes without saying, really.

Pretty much this. It will take time, but it will take action. It just seems too many people fall into the "I've ranted about it, my work here is done, and I deserve a cookie now" trap; stopping at the 'personal PR' level of the effort.

It doesn't have to be AAA for the effort to count. It just has to be profitable enough to show the industry that women aren't detrimental to games. Financial success with a game with a female protagonist is what matters. I'm hard pressed to believe an indie game can do that, but like I said, I am willing to be proven wrong.

I'm afraid I must disagree here, or rather, point out that on this perverted AAA scene where selling 5 million copies is considered a commercial failure by some publishers, that just can't happen. And the publishers will blame everything, from pirates to used sales to "we put a woman in the lead role" for it, as long as it's a convenient scapegoat.

Indies have more potential to appear profitable, coupled with more creative freedom and all that. Of course, this is also just my opinion and I'm allowing the possibility to be proven wrong.

So Ellie crying because she sees Joel again (who for all she knew might not even make it) after having faced overwhelming odds is sexist now too.

...

I'm throwing it out there; I just don't get it anymore.

You know... I think I get it, apparently a female character has to be like The Boss in MGS3 otherwise it's sexist: she has to be overall plain awesomeness: strong, not dependent on any male at any point and heroic. Anything short of that and it's "sexusm". Because once there is a major flaw to the character it will be focused on and claimed to be sexist.

But that's just a man with tits!

 

[lassiie]

Okay, I will defend Elizabeth for as long as I can. I believe she represents a deconstruction of the damsel in distress. Sure, Booker has to save her a few times, but on the flipside, Elizabeth saves him too [from drowning, falling off, and every time the player dies if you get technical. It's not the strong man coming to save the helpless woman, it's a mutual partnership. His strength is with the running and gunning since he's a trained soldier, and hers is more tactical by avoiding combat, scrounging for supplies, feeding Booker the items he needs when he needs them and is also able to make objects appear out of nowhere via tears. It'd be weird if she fought on his level because she has lived that sheltered life. Furthermore, she doesn't blindly follow him. When she [very cleverly mind you] figures out Booker is taking her to New York and not Paris, she knocks him unconscious and breaks it off. When Booker saves her from the procedure [which was only possible because old Elizabeth brought him there in the first place], she makes it clear that Comstock will pay, and that Booker is in no position to stop her [as she summons a tornado behind her in a way that can only be described as badass]. Why didn't she just open a tear and leave her prison? For one thing, the siphon on the island seriously inhibits here abilities. In the game she makes things appear in certain cases, and occasionally tears to other worlds are opened, but never to the point where it's consistent enough that it'd be an obvious solution. It's often too dangerous and unpredictable. Hell, when the siphon is destroyed at the end is when she's able to just completely jump through portals and go to different worlds. It's not to say she has no daddy issues, but they barely even mentioned the actual ones in the plot. They also imply that Booker is just an anonymous manly man, which he starts off as, but again, you get to the ending and they flip it all back at you and you realize exactly how deep this relationship actually goes.

THANK YOU for this portion of the post....it felt to me like the author(s) of the article never even played the game. It was made clear as the story progressed that Elizabeth at one point had been able to open tears fully, but as she got older for some reason she was unable to, and this is all explained within the game. I was surprised no one else but you had posted about this. In no way was Elizabeth a typical damsel in distress. Did she need help initially, yep, did booker need help multiple times throughout the story, yep, it was a very complex relationship

 

[tomtom94]

I can see the point they're making about Ellie and Elizabeth in a way. Female characters in gaming still fall into the "must be protected" stereotype, and have to be filtered through a male character (Joel/Booker) in order for people to "understand" them.

I think the problem I have with this idea is that it condenses characters entirely down to a gender and nothing else. The article doesn't touch on contexts enough to be truly convincing to me (then again, perhaps I'm expecting too much in expecting detailed analysis from Cracked). Of course it would have been interesting to see the plot in a less typical aspect - though in the case of Bioshock Infinite, I was never under the impression that the article's idea of Elizabeth was the case; when taken as an example broadly across the board, then a pattern can be discerned, but taken on it's own, I don't really think the idea holds water.

I 'unno, maybe it's an more of an issue of alternatives not existing rather than the storylines in themselves.

I think the point is that we're condensing these particular characters down to just a gender on the basis that gender is a common denominator in these examples, where the female is frequently portrayed as either the emotional one or someone to be protected. There's context and then there's pattern recognition.

That said, you hit the nail on the head at the end there, it's a combination really of the fact that we can discern a pattern over a broad range of examples AND the fact that there isn't really an alternative at all, certainly not in mainstream gaming, which can lead to this sort of thing. The storyline of "protect the girl" isn't by itself a bad one so long as it isn't the only one.

 

[Ikasury]

my two cents: in bioshock infinite and The Last of Us... why wasn't i PLAYING ellie and elizabeth with joel/booker as MY support character? personally i felt that would have been better, ellie/elizabeth were more functional characters, better developed ones/people and fuck, far more interesting... why am i stuck in the mind of these two emo old guys that just have lots of angst/trust issues? if you ask me both of them were more annoying then anything else about the games... i mean seriously, that's the extent of male 'vulnerability': "i can shoot everything without batting an eye, but oh 'feelings' nope can't have those..." -.-

haven't played other M but heard enough complaints about it, and while i haven't played the latest in the long line of Laura Croft games i hear the recent one could be 'interesting' as its supposed to be her development from 'rich girl' to 'kill everything on the planet and steal its stuff' so i can't much comment on that stuff *shrugs* but like someone said earlier vulnerability does NOT equal weakness... hell i liked Nilin from Remember Me, hell i liked that game period, its one of the few i've bothered to finish, no, was COMPELLED to finish cause in my opinion it was that good, short, but good... women have these complex 'feelings' that we can express that for some reason the male mind just cannot handle or something, suppose thats why in recent years i get so bored playing male leads, they're pretty much a gun that points and shoots itself, 'character development? what's that? it requires FEELINGS!! lets just shoot more things' -.- i mean i love games with mindless killing on occasion, but don't expect me to remember them for all that long...

i think at this point the only real male lead i actually like/love is OG Dante, why? he's a prick, cocky, smarmy, sonvabitch with lots of personality and rathers to not be such a ***** about all the bullshit thrown his way... so he shoots/slices it with style... who needs 'plot' in a DMC game, you've got mister badass just hacking/shooting things with a witty bit of snark and 'i don't give a fuck'ness... memorable, not annoying, and you can't call the DMC women weak/damsels XD they kinda always ended up saving his smarmy ass at some point... not that i can say the same about the reboot but eh, details -.- it doesn't exist to me anyway...

personally i'd much rather the 'token' female option in anything i play, as dumb as it is, it helps a lot for getting me interested, as previously stated, even if its just 'cosmetic' it for some odd reasons clicks in my head better... i'll always play a female if the option is there, for all the BS Aliens:Colonial Marines got they at least had a female option in multi (the only part worth playing -.-) but it was kinda bullshit we didn't get Vasquez... i mean c'mon, she's the origin of the trope and one of the things people remember about the movie, sigh... but i digress, other games such as Brink or any other miraculous 'male only' societies (no fem-player option) really irk me, would it really be that much effort to put some tits on something? honestly? just the subtle 'hint' that women exist? maybe? or the 'they only exist as plot-device' is kinda just as annoying... cause then they're either 'damsel' or 'Wonder Woman' styled, and honestly i've always been more of a hawkgirl type myself XD

as for 'making a better game' *shrugs* i'd love to, but has anyone actually TRIED doing that? i have, the guys i worked with looked at me like i was a martian when i suggested having a female option... or a female period in the game -.- it was severally heavy on the bromance, even for an indie game... and that pretty much sums up everything really, while guys CAN write women, women are better at writing guys/girls due to this amazing innate sense we have called 'empathy', i know some guys have it, but jesus H christ if they actually 'show' it -.- 'guy lead' is just default at this point, its not so much a consideration of 'gender' as its just something people assume without thinking, the only way to 'change' this crap is to change the thinking, where a woman doesn't have to be 'part of a party' to be 'independent'/useful but fully functional on her own, but even then its not even that...

there are female leads that are decent but then get bogged down by the dreaded 'but they're women' bs, as if that's the only thing to remember them by... honestly, you don't 'remember' a male lead cause he's MALE but by what he does, so why is it with the few female leads this isn't the same? they're remembered for being 'women' or having big tits -.-

i still think Aya Brea is the best female MC in existence, and sadly the only one closest i've seen in years is Nilin... not quite the same, but a fuck lot closer then anyone else -.-

 

[ShipofFools]

I thought it was a really good article.
Especially the comparison that men can be whatever, but women are always "the girl".
That shit's been bugging me for quite some time, actually.

Also I would like to add my two cents here, just a personal opinion, not something to take seriously, but I think men who are sexist have very small penises and will never know love the way human beings are meant to experience it and will die alone, unhappy and a life wasted.

Just my opinion.

 

[gargantual]

I feel that these topics become useless arguments of "I'm right" "No, I'm RIGHT" and falls short of real discourse. Video games are fiction and fiction is just fantasy, a exaggeration of the creators "vision" of whatever the fuck they want to say. Sometimes they really want to say nothing in particular, have no political or social commentary, they just want to tell a story. And a good story no matter what the content is still a good story. Just because the protagonist may be x-generic male and the plot may be saving y-female-in-distress doesn't detract from it being a good story.
At this point I feel that proponents of the "we need moar strong female leads" should take that as a challenge to write something instead of trying to force others to do it by brow-beating and political correctness bashing.
I don't say that the conversation shouldn't be around but I will say that we're not adding anything by rehashing the same arguments over and over. Someone has to just take initiative and create something different. And more people need to follow that example.
Basically what I feel it boils down to is debate means jack shit without a real action and the only real action isn't to batter down what is already in existence but to build up that which is not. Take fucking risks, do something about it that isn't destructive or abrasive, but constructive and creative.

I disagree, even rehashing the same stuff time, and time, and time again, we're talking about it. It's being talked about, and thus in the eyes of people. We're letting people know we still want female protagonists. It's all some can do.

The problem with making our own stuff, aside from the fact that not everyone has the time, resources, or talent to do that, and no amount of BS will change that is that since when does the industry really pay attention to indie games? I mean seriously? I'm not saying it to crush dreams, but any indie developer that gets the industry to stop being so against women deserves several nobel peace prizes. They'd have shattered te conventional wisdom that women in games harm the game, created a game men and women alike love bringing them together, and made so much money that the industry would have to notice as it's all they care about in the end.

Women getting into the industry to make AAA games? Go for it! But lets not pretend women are necessary for it. Men can write for women, and vice versa. Other mediums prove this like the romantic comedy movies, plus the fact that most of our beloved female figures are created by men in games.

I'm not saying that a person can't make a difference, but I'd say the change needs to happen among those in the industry, producers, developers, etc, that block female protagonists from being made. The people in power over these matters that fight diversity among protagonists need to be replaced by people who aren't so eager to think negative of ethnicity or gender.

Still disagree with that. Lot of guy devs will make what interest them at the current time. Some guys may be curious and want to explore perspective unique to females. It could come at a time that's convenient with the demands of portrayal change but it has nothing to do with that. but it shouldn't be the future burden of all AAA devs to be more politically correct. That's not of their own volition, that's compulsion. ( I.E. I don't have cleavage in games anymore because I'm afraid of the market.)

They'll be open to making more depth nuanced female characters because 'the story' demands it not 48 percentage market compulsions. Babes like Ivy Valentine in Soul Calibur or the weird Dragon Crown sorceress exist in games worlds mostly synonymous with eccentric cultural flash and extreme gender stereotypical warriors. Half-life 2 doesn't have any eye raising visual presentations of women because city 17 is a grounded gestapo controlled future where such a thing would fly in the face of the story that's being created. And it takes indepdendent output. Actual content to change the narrative in the industry. You think hollywood'll magically stop with token babes in films because of people picketing? Or that you could lock Dan Houser in a room and demand rockstar write more politically correct depictions of real world women? It ain't happening. More people have to get involved for entertainment to be diverse, and the winds of change carry everyone else. Cant just expect the boys at the top to concern themselves about every sensibility, they'll just go for broke.