Dark Souls - I'm Prepared To Die (Again)

[Xprimentyl]

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

Yup, both excellent places to visit before tackling any of the Lordvessel bosses. Undead Asylum has a very useful item you might've noticed was initially unreachable. The hollow is a Crystal Lizard haven for those precious forging elements. Also, remember to visit Snuggly the Crow before you leave Undead Asylum. You'll find her nest off to the side of a cliff ledge. Since she is rather cryptic in her offerings, here's a trading guide to help save some trouble -

Spoiler

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/hawk-girl

 

[Souplex]

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

Yup, both excellent places to visit before tackling any of the Lordvessel bosses. Undead Asylum has a very useful item you might've noticed was initially unreachable. The hollow is a Crystal Lizard haven for those precious forging elements. Also, remember to visit Snuggly the Crow before you leave Undead Asylum. You'll find her nest off to the side of a cliff ledge. Since she is rather cryptic in her offerings, here's a trading guide to help save some trouble -

Spoiler

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/hawk-girl

Also if you have the DLC or PC version, go like 5 minutes into the Dukes Archives to get the Key to the DLC. It can then be accessed by wandering around Darkroot Basin past where you beat the Hydra.

 

[Dalisclock]

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

Yup, both excellent places to visit before tackling any of the Lordvessel bosses. Undead Asylum has a very useful item you might've noticed was initially unreachable. The hollow is a Crystal Lizard haven for those precious forging elements. Also, remember to visit Snuggly the Crow before you leave Undead Asylum. You'll find her nest off to the side of a cliff ledge. Since she is rather cryptic in her offerings, here's a trading guide to help save some trouble -

Spoiler

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/hawk-girl

Also if you have the DLC or PC version, go like 5 minutes into the Dukes Archives to get the Key to the DLC. It can then be accessed by wandering around Darkroot Basin past where you beat the Hydra.

As an addedum to that, the DLC is geared towards people already need the endgame. It's tough, and just in case you were wandering how tough it is, you need to kill a rather tough boss before you can even proceed past the first bonfire. Worth it though.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Congrats. Now, go forward to the Amazing Chest and take the lordvessel. Enjoy, because now the rest of the game starts, where you get to choose from 4 different ways to screw yourself. I honestly don't know which one to recommend, but I would recommend going and beating Sif and the moonlight butterfly now if you you haven't already.

I would save Lost Izalith for last (beyond Quelaags Domain). Dukes Archives is kinda annoying, Tomb of the Giants isn't too bad once you know the layout, and the four kings can be a tough boss. Hmmmm, I would say go to the Four Kings first, just to get that crap outta the way (New Londo Ruins). Oh yeah, you need to kill Sif before you can do the Four Kings boss fight.

Sif is certainly next on the list; Moonlight butterfly went down awhile ago during the hissy-fit a threw when I couldn't get past the Archers in Anor Londo.

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

I've been back to the Asylum a couple of times; took out the Black Knights and found the few goodies scattered about, but I haven't beaten the Stray Demon yet. I tried for the first time yesterday, and boy-howdy, that's one strong sumbitch. Doesn't help that I'm fighting him and his AoE attacks in a walk-in closet and I start the fight with half health after the fall damage. But what is this bonus area in the Church? You mean in the Undead Parish?

 

[Souplex]

*Snip of other people being quoted*

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

I've been back to the Asylum a couple of times; took out the Black Knights and found the few goodies scattered about, but I haven't beaten the Stray Demon yet. I tried for the first time yesterday, and boy-howdy, that's one strong sumbitch. Doesn't help that I'm fighting him and his AoE attacks in a walk-in closet and I start the fight with half health after the fall damage. But what is this bonus area in the Church? You mean in the Undead Parish?

If you've been back to your cell you have the item. I mean the cathedral in Anor Londo where you walked on the rafters right before the whirly-tower. You can use the whirly-tower to get to the ground floor of the cathedral. If you didn't break the chain on the chandelier in the rafters, do it before you go to the ground floor to get THE BEST armor and 2nd best shield in the game when you explore the Cathedral's floor.
Since you're up to Sif; remember, Sif's soul can be used to make the best shield in the game at the Giant Blacksmith using a +10 shield. Also, since you have high strength and dex you may want to look into spears. They don't hit as hard as greatswords, but they've got really quick attacks, high reach, and their stabbing animation is just useful.
Also, if you've been to the catacombs you might have found the Darkmoon Seance Ring. If you go to the Bonfire at the bottom of the whirly-tower and approach the statue opposite the entrance while wearing the ring you unlock a covenant/secret boss-fight. The boss leads the covenant, so fighting them blocks off the covenant. It's a cool covenant if you're into PvP without being an asshole.

 

[Dalisclock]

I've been back to the Asylum a couple of times; took out the Black Knights and found the few goodies scattered about, but I haven't beaten the Stray Demon yet. I tried for the first time yesterday, and boy-howdy, that's one strong sumbitch. Doesn't help that I'm fighting him and his AoE attacks in a walk-in closet and I start the fight with half health after the fall damage. But what is this bonus area in the Church? You mean in the Undead Parish?

There's also a ring that's just out of reach in the asylum, but in order to get it you have to have the key from the roof of the firelink shrine. It's the rusted iron ring, which allows you to move normally in knee/waist high water(such as blightown). If you plan to do the great hollow, it'll make the trip there a lot less painful since you can actually sprint through stretches of bog.

 

[Fox12]

Congrats. Now, go forward to the Amazing Chest and take the lordvessel. Enjoy, because now the rest of the game starts, where you get to choose from 4 different ways to screw yourself. I honestly don't know which one to recommend, but I would recommend going and beating Sif and the moonlight butterfly now if you you haven't already.

I would save Lost Izalith for last (beyond Quelaags Domain). Dukes Archives is kinda annoying, Tomb of the Giants isn't too bad once you know the layout, and the four kings can be a tough boss. Hmmmm, I would say go to the Four Kings first, just to get that crap outta the way (New Londo Ruins). Oh yeah, you need to kill Sif before you can do the Four Kings boss fight.

Sif is certainly next on the list; Moonlight butterfly went down awhile ago during the hissy-fit a threw when I couldn't get past the Archers in Anor Londo.

*Is about to suggest you kill Smough first so you can get THE BEST weapon in the game*
*Sees that you already beat them*
*Walks away*
Edit: Have you been back to Undead Asylum yet? It's a fun place to go. You can get back there through a jumping puzzle involving the Undead Parish elevator. After you do there's a bonus area you can visit in the church full of the Klansmen Ninjas.
Have you been down the Great Hollow yet? It's found on the bottom floor of BlightTown.

I've been back to the Asylum a couple of times; took out the Black Knights and found the few goodies scattered about, but I haven't beaten the Stray Demon yet. I tried for the first time yesterday, and boy-howdy, that's one strong sumbitch. Doesn't help that I'm fighting him and his AoE attacks in a walk-in closet and I start the fight with half health after the fall damage. But what is this bonus area in the Church? You mean in the Undead Parish?

Out of curiosity, do you still have the lordvessal? If so, you may want to complete the four kings boss fight before doing anything else. You may learn a few things. If you do, then there may be more secrets in Anor Londo.

Also, revisit that painting in the cathedral if you haven't already.

Edit: Also, souplex mentioned a secret boss fight in Anor Londo. He's right, it's incredible, but I highly recommend you make sure you've done everything else in the area first. otherwise you'll miss out on stuff.

 

[Xprimentyl]

There's also a ring that's just out of reach in the asylum, but in order to get it you have to have the key from the roof of the firelink shrine. It's the rusted iron ring, which allows you to move normally in knee/waist high water(such as blightown). If you plan to do the great hollow, it'll make the trip there a lot less painful since you can actually sprint through stretches of bog.

Yes, I got the Rusted Iron Ring... AFTER I completed Blighttown. But it'll come in handy as I plan on revisiting Blighttown; I think I missed some stuff down there and I need to get to the Great Hollow.

Out of curiosity, do you still have the lordvessal? If so, you may want to complete the four kings boss fight before doing anything else. You may learn a few things. If you do, then there may be more secrets in Anor Londo.

No, I already coughed up the Lordvessel to Frampt. Should I not have?!? He's the only one that asked for it!

Also, revisit that painting in the cathedral if you haven't already.

I did the Painted World yesterday. FUCK that place. I didn't realize I'd be trapped there if I went! Those goddamned toxic hollows made me run through ALL of my blooming purple moss clumps; those crow-harpy bitches kept knocking me off those narrow-ass stairs to NOWHERE; the phalanx guys were Dark Soul's first overt gank-fest (I'll have to consult my history books, but I don't think the Greeks were THROWING spears from the phalanx formation I managed to kill the Undead Dragon, but for the effort, he wasn't guarding shit. The only annoying thing the Painted World was missing was Bonewheel Skeletons... oh, wait, we have those too!! The whole ordeal was a white-hot wire in the dickhole. I ended up consulting a wiki and found that the only way out was through Pricilla, and that my choices were A.) attack her, permanently aggro-ing her thus making her a mandatory fight to ever get out of the Painted World or B.) tuck my tail between my puss lips and slink by her like a beat-dog born coward. I went with option B; learning that Pricilla's first action in combat was to turn invisible in a game wherein visual cues are 99.99999% of the combat was a deal breaker. I may go back in there someday, but someday ain?t today.

Edit: Also, souplex mentioned a secret boss fight in Anor Londo. He's right, it's incredible, but I highly recommend you make sure you've done everything else in the area first. otherwise you'll miss out on stuff.

Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

 

[Fox12]

There's also a ring that's just out of reach in the asylum, but in order to get it you have to have the key from the roof of the firelink shrine. It's the rusted iron ring, which allows you to move normally in knee/waist high water(such as blightown). If you plan to do the great hollow, it'll make the trip there a lot less painful since you can actually sprint through stretches of bog.

Yes, I got the Rusted Iron Ring... AFTER I completed Blighttown. But it'll come in handy as I plan on revisiting Blighttown; I think I missed some stuff down there and I need to get to the Great Hollow.

Out of curiosity, do you still have the lordvessal? If so, you may want to complete the four kings boss fight before doing anything else. You may learn a few things. If you do, then there may be more secrets in Anor Londo.

No, I already coughed up the Lordvessel to Frampt. Should I not have?!? He's the only one that asked for it!

Also, revisit that painting in the cathedral if you haven't already.

I did the Painted World yesterday. FUCK that place. I didn't realize I'd be trapped there if I went! Those goddamned toxic hollows made me run through ALL of my blooming purple moss clumps; those crow-harpy bitches kept knocking me off those narrow-ass stairs to NOWHERE; the phalanx guys were Dark Soul's first overt gank-fest (I'll have to consult my history books, but I don't think the Greeks were THROWING spears from the phalanx formation I managed to kill the Undead Dragon, but for the effort, he wasn't guarding shit. The only annoying thing the Painted World was missing was Bonewheel Skeletons... oh, wait, we have those too!! The whole ordeal was a white-hot wire in the dickhole. I ended up consulting a wiki and found that the only way out was through Pricilla, and that my choices were A.) attack her, permanently aggro-ing her thus making her a mandatory fight to ever get out of the Painted World or B.) tuck my tail between my puss lips and slink by her like a beat-dog born coward. I went with option B; learning that Pricilla's first action in combat was to turn invisible in a game wherein visual cues are 99.99999% of the combat was a deal breaker. I may go back in there someday, but someday ain?t today.

Edit: Also, souplex mentioned a secret boss fight in Anor Londo. He's right, it's incredible, but I highly recommend you make sure you've done everything else in the area first. otherwise you'll miss out on stuff.

Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Dark Soul's is the kind of game that benefits from a second play through. A blind play through, and a second play through where you uncover a lot of secret information. I'll put it in spoiler tags to be safe. I honestly prefer for people to stumble on things themselves, but it's just not practical for most people to replay a game thirty times to get everything. Dark Soul's is deliberately designed so that, if you only do what you're told to do, then you'll never get the whole story. It literally flips game design on its head. You do what you're told because other games have conditioned you to believe that this is the only way to complete the game. What you don't realize is that Dark Soul's actually enables you to do things differently. It just doesn't tell you that you have that ability. If you don't care about replaying the game again anytime soon then go ahead an read:

Spoiler

If you retrieve the Lord Vassel, and don't give it to Fraampt, then you'll meet a secret character in The Abyss that turns most things on their head. You'd meet this individual after completing the Four Kings boss fight. You can find his dialogue on youtube. His name is Kaathe.

If you attack Gwynevere, and you haven't killed Gwyndolin, then you may be in for a surprise. Some rambunctious players discovered this to their immense satisfaction. It's even better if you haven't discovered Gwyndolin yet.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Dark Soul's is the kind of game that benefits from a second play through. A blind play through, and a second play through where you uncover a lot of secret information. I'll put it in spoiler tags to be safe. I honestly prefer for people to stumble on things themselves, but it's just not practical for most people to replay a game thirty times to get everything. Dark Soul's is deliberately designed so that, if you only do what you're told to do, then you'll never get the whole story. It literally flips game design on its head. You do what you're told because other games have conditioned you to believe that this is the only way to complete the game. What you don't realize is that Dark Soul's actually enables you to do things differently. It just doesn't tell you that you have that ability. If you don't care about replaying the game again anytime soon then go ahead an read:

Spoiler

If you retrieve the Lord Vassel, and don't give it to Fraampt, then you'll meet a secret character in The Abyss that turns most things on their head. You'd meet this individual after completing the Four Kings boss fight. You can find his dialogue on youtube. His name is Kaathe.

If you attack Gwynevere, and you haven't killed Gwyndolin, then you may be in for a surprise. Some rambunctious players discovered this to their immense satisfaction. It's even better if you haven't discovered Gwyndolin yet.

I appreciate your and everyone?s effort to remain implicit in your tips and comments, but rest assured, between wikis and watching speed runs, there?s very little in the way of the big details that I don?t know in some way, shape or form. It?s the small details, the minutiae and mechanics where I need help and advice. I am planning multiple playthroughs given what I?ve learned during my current, clusterfuck-y run, so I?ll try the options I didn?t this time around.

That being said, I knew of Kaathe, just not exactly where he was or that he was actually an alternative pathway to endgame I could lock myself out of; I thought he was always there at after the Four Kings.

I didn't want to attack Gwynevere for a "couple obvious reasons;" fortunately, I'd found the ring in the Catacombs that allows me access to Gwydolin without an unnecessary crime against boobs-manity. But I am curious what surprise you're talking about? Please, do tell!

 

[DeadProxy]

That being said, I knew of Kaathe, just not exactly where he was or that he was actually an alternative pathway to endgame I could lock myself out of; I thought he was always there at after the Four Kings.

I didn't want to attack Gwynevere for a "couple obvious reasons;" fortunately, I'd found the ring in the Catacombs that allows me access to Gwydolin without an unnecessary crime against boobs-manity. But I am curious what surprise you're talking about? Please, do tell!

Kaathe is certainly a bastard to reach. He's a pvp covenant guy and you have to kill the 4 kings before doing anything else after getting the Lordvessel, and to even fight them, you need to have the ring the Sif drops when you beat him. Also, you have to ignore Frampt completely. There's a lot of ways you can screw yourself out of meeting him.

As for that "surprise" Fox12 mentioned, if you're heartless enough to plant one of your arrows firmly in her bosom, you'll get to experience Anor Londo in it's true form. A dark place, where only the Giant Blacksmith lives, as all the enemies in the entire zone will have vanished. This also opens you up to Darkmoon invaders whenever you wander around dark Anor Londo online, so if you kill Gwynevere before Gwyndolin, you might have a rough time. Big note, killing one of these bosses will cause you to lose the bonfire that's at the first spinning tower, although I can't remember which boss.

If you haven't beaten Gwyndolin, the best advice I can offer is to use the pillars on the side for the small flurry of spells, and dodge roll to the side when the big one comes, cause that thing goes right through the pillars. It's a slow process of chipping away while not getting greedy, but that's most Dark Soul's bosses.

 

[Xprimentyl]

As for that "surprise" Fox12 mentioned, if you're heartless enough to plant one of your arrows firmly in her bosom, you'll get to experience Anor Londo in it's true form. A dark place, where only the Giant Blacksmith lives, as all the enemies in the entire zone will have vanished. This also opens you up to Darkmoon invaders whenever you wander around dark Anor Londo online, so if you kill Gwynevere before Gwyndolin, you might have a rough time. Big note, killing one of these bosses will cause you to lose the bonfire that's at the first spinning tower, although I can't remember which boss.

Ah, I see! That might explain what just happened to me. I think all you really have to do is piss Gwyndolin off by crossing the white light; I don't think you actually have to kill him. I noticed when I warped to Anor Londo, with Gwyndolin quite alive if not very happy me with, the firekeeper attacked me and I had to put her down. Not that I'm gonna miss that bonfire; too many frustrating and fruitless treks from it left a sour taste in my mouth; good riddance.

If you haven't beaten Gwyndolin, the best advice I can offer is to use the pillars on the side for the small flurry of spells, and dodge roll to the side when the big one comes, cause that thing goes right through the pillars. It's a slow process of chipping away while not getting greedy, but that's most Dark Soul's bosses.

Sad to say, not getting greedy is a lesson I still struggle with. To me, missing a window to get some damage in is right beneath the frustration of missing a flight in real life. I'm actually able to get his health down pretty far, but I think he senses my getting anxious and trolls me into making dumb, sweaty-palmed mistakes.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Ok, new question/issue. Yesterday, I visited the forest area where I met the cat and joined their covenant. All the enemies in the area de-aggro'd and all was right with the world. I quit the game at that point, but when I booted back up today (still in the forest where I left off, mind you,) one of the NPCs ran up and attacked me. Naturally, I responded in kind, the NPC said something along the lines of "Turning on us already??" I'm like, dude, YOU attacked ME! I had to put him down and he dropped Murakumo, a curved greatsword. Sounded special, so I wiki'd it and I'm guessing I just had to murder-in-self-defense Shiva of the East? Any reason he'd attack me unprovoked even after I joined his covenant? Does he have any ties to Anor Londo or Gwyndolin? Because as I stated in a post above, I pissed Gwyndolin off by crossing his white light which pissed off the Anor Londo firekeeper; does fighting Gwyndolin set off any and all characters with ties/allegiance to him?

 

[Fox12]

snip

Well... I'll be explicit with this one, if you really want the full details.

Spoiler

If you attack Gwynevere, she disappears, and Anor Londo goes dark. Gwynevere, and many of the enemies, were an illusion. Most of the Gods abandoned Anor Londo long ago. Now only Gwyndolin, the youngest child, and a few loyal servants remain. The city is actually dark because the first flame is about to go out. Gwyndolin was simply trying to make it appear like Anor Londo was still at its true strength.

Gwyndolin and Frampt are working together. Lord Gwyn sacrificed his soul to the first flame as fuel. Since his oldest son was banished, and Gwynevere left the city, that left Gwyndolin as the only remaining heir to the king. He's now trying to honor his fathers legacy and maintain his power. However, he can't do that if the first flame goes out. Frampt created the legend of the "chosen undead" in order to trick humans, such as yourself, into sacrificing themselves to the first flame so that Gwyndolin can stay in power. There is no prophecy, there is no chosen undead, and there is no divine plan. When Frampt says that you will succeed Lord Gwyn, what he actually means is that you will take his place as a burnt offering. He doesn't want you to be king. When you fight Lautrec, and he says that you're like a moth to a flame, he means that your preparing to kill yourself and you don't even realize it. Many players never encounter Kaathe or Gwyndolin, which means that many players sacrifice themselves to the first flame, and don't understand what just happened. It's brilliant, because the players themselves were deceived by Frampt and Gwyndolin. Incidentally, both endings are still open to you. You just can't meet Kaathe. You're not locked into any ending.

Ok, new question/issue. Yesterday, I visited the forest area where I met the cat and joined their covenant. All the enemies in the area de-aggro'd and all was right with the world. I quit the game at that point, but when I booted back up today (still in the forest where I left off, mind you,) one of the NPCs ran up and attacked me. Naturally, I responded in kind, the NPC said something along the lines of "Turning on us already??" I'm like, dude, YOU attacked ME! I had to put him down and he dropped Murakumo, a curved greatsword. Sounded special, so I wiki'd it and I'm guessing I just had to murder-in-self-defense Shiva of the East? Any reason he'd attack me unprovoked even after I joined his covenant? Does he have any ties to Anor Londo or Gwyndolin? Because as I stated in a post above, I pissed Gwyndolin off by crossing his white light which pissed off the Anor Londo firekeeper; does fighting Gwyndolin set off any and all characters with ties/allegiance to him?

That's strange. Shiva of the East will try to steal the Chaos Blade katana from you, if you have it, but that shouldn't be until much later in the game, and in a different area. It may just be a glitch. To my knowledge he's not allied with anyone. If you have the chance, make sure you kill his invisible bodyguard for his magic ring. If you can't, then don't sweat it. It's only useful for light builds anyway. If the covenant is mad at you then you can buy absolution from Oswald near the firs bell of awakening. They'll let you rejoin after that.

 

[Xprimentyl]

snip

Well... I'll be explicit with this one, if you really want the full details.

Spoiler

If you attack Gwynevere, she disappears, and Anor Londo goes dark. Gwynevere, and many of the enemies, were an illusion. Most of the Gods abandoned Anor Londo long ago. Now only Gwyndolin, the youngest child, and a few loyal servants remain. The city is actually dark because the first flame is about to go out. Gwyndolin was simply trying to make it appear like Anor Londo was still at its true strength.

Gwyndolin and Frampt are working together. Lord Gwyn sacrificed his soul to the first flame as fuel. Since his oldest son was banished, and Gwynevere left the city, that left Gwyndolin as the only remaining heir to the king. He's now trying to honor his fathers legacy and maintain his power. However, he can't do that if the first flame goes out. Frampt created the legend of the "chosen undead" in order to trick humans, such as yourself, into sacrificing themselves to the first flame so that Gwyndolin can stay in power. There is no prophecy, there is no chosen undead, and there is no divine plan. When Frampt says that you will succeed Lord Gwyn, what he actually means is that you will take his place as a burnt offering. He doesn't want you to be king. When you fight Lautrec, and he says that you're like a moth to a flame, he means that your preparing to kill yourself and you don't even realize it. Many players never encounter Kaathe or Gwyndolin, which means that many players sacrifice themselves to the first flame, and don't understand what just happened. It's brilliant, because the players themselves were deceived by Frampt and Gwyndolin. Incidentally, both endings are still open to you. You just can't meet Kaathe. You're not locked into any ending.

Welp... ... I suppose now you're going to tell me there's no Santa either?? But thanks for the exposition; I've tried piecing together the implicit lore from various sources, but honestly, this makes the most sense, so I'm gonna run with it.

Ok, new question/issue. Yesterday, I visited the forest area where I met the cat and joined their covenant. All the enemies in the area de-aggro'd and all was right with the world. I quit the game at that point, but when I booted back up today (still in the forest where I left off, mind you,) one of the NPCs ran up and attacked me. Naturally, I responded in kind, the NPC said something along the lines of "Turning on us already??" I'm like, dude, YOU attacked ME! I had to put him down and he dropped Murakumo, a curved greatsword. Sounded special, so I wiki'd it and I'm guessing I just had to murder-in-self-defense Shiva of the East? Any reason he'd attack me unprovoked even after I joined his covenant? Does he have any ties to Anor Londo or Gwyndolin? Because as I stated in a post above, I pissed Gwyndolin off by crossing his white light which pissed off the Anor Londo firekeeper; does fighting Gwyndolin set off any and all characters with ties/allegiance to him?

That's strange. Shiva of the East will try to steal the Chaos Blade katana from you, if you have it, but that shouldn't be until much later in the game, and in a different area. It may just be a glitch. To my knowledge he's not allied with anyone. If you have the chance, make sure you kill his invisible bodyguard for his magic ring. If you can't, then don't sweat it. It's only useful for light builds anyway. If the covenant is mad at you then you can buy absolution from Oswald near the firs bell of awakening. They'll let you rejoin after that.

No, I don't have the Chaos Blade, but I do have Quelaag's Fury Sword; is it possible that since both blades require the same soul, he goes for either blade you make? It was equipped as the second weapon on my right hand at the time. And I?ve killed several partially invisible foes in the forest prior to joining the covenant and them all de-aggro-ing, but none attacked me when Shiva of the East did.

 

[Souplex]

Snip

Snip

Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yeah, you use the pillars on the sides of the arena as cover against Gwyndolin's magic attacks. Just zig-zag from the sides of the arena stopping at the pillars to recover your stamina.
When (s)he rises up on those weird snake legs it's to prepare for a hail of arrows. You can block those and close in to get a solid hit or three in. You don't need to worry about attacking too much and leaving yourself open, as Gwyndolin's response to being physically attacked is to teleport away.

Priscialla is actually fairly easy, and you'll have unlocked enough shortcuts that getting back to her to fight her is pretty easy. Plus if you're a cheevo-whore she has a tail-weapon to cut off.

What Fox fails to mention about Kaathe's schemes is that if the fire dies the world will become a dark bleak shitty place.
Kaathe has had a few machinations over the years, and they've all ended badly for all involved.
Sacrificing yourself to the first flame is good for all but you, the prophecy is to trick you into doing the right thing for the good of all.

 

[Fox12]

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Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yeah, you use the pillars on the sides of the arena as cover against Gwyndolin's magic attacks. Just zig-zag from the sides of the arena stopping at the pillars to recover your stamina.
When (s)he rises up on those weird snake legs it's to prepare for a hail of arrows. You can block those and close in to get a solid hit or three in. You don't need to worry about attacking too much and leaving yourself open, as Gwyndolin's response to being physically attacked is to teleport away.

Priscialla is actually fairly easy, and you'll have unlocked enough shortcuts that getting back to her to fight her is pretty easy. Plus if you're a cheevo-whore she has a tail-weapon to cut off.

What Fox fails to mention about Kaathe's schemes is that if the fire dies the world will become a dark bleak shitty place.
Kaathe has had a few machinations over the years, and they've all ended badly for all involved.
Sacrificing yourself to the first flame is good for all but you, the prophecy is to trick you into doing the right thing for the good of all.

Not necessarily. Kaathe isn't a very trustworthy dude, but there's no reason to assume that the world is screwed if the light goes out. The dark soul turned into the abyss because it was corrupted, and went wild. The same thing basically happened with chaos and the first flame. You could basically argue that the abyss is to humanity what chaos is to the first flame. Left alone, humanity seems harmless.

It's pretty open ended. I don't like to think of the endings as good or bad. They're just two different paths you can follow.

 

[Dalisclock]

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Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yeah, you use the pillars on the sides of the arena as cover against Gwyndolin's magic attacks. Just zig-zag from the sides of the arena stopping at the pillars to recover your stamina.
When (s)he rises up on those weird snake legs it's to prepare for a hail of arrows. You can block those and close in to get a solid hit or three in. You don't need to worry about attacking too much and leaving yourself open, as Gwyndolin's response to being physically attacked is to teleport away.

Priscialla is actually fairly easy, and you'll have unlocked enough shortcuts that getting back to her to fight her is pretty easy. Plus if you're a cheevo-whore she has a tail-weapon to cut off.

What Fox fails to mention about Kaathe's schemes is that if the fire dies the world will become a dark bleak shitty place.
Kaathe has had a few machinations over the years, and they've all ended badly for all involved.
Sacrificing yourself to the first flame is good for all but you, the prophecy is to trick you into doing the right thing for the good of all.

Not necessarily. Kaathe isn't a very trustworthy dude, but there's no reason to assume that the world is screwed if the light goes out. The dark soul turned into the abyss because it was corrupted, and went wild. The same thing basically happened with chaos and the first flame. You could basically argue that the abyss is to humanity what chaos is to the first flame. Left alone, humanity seems harmless.

It's pretty open ended. I don't like to think of the endings as good or bad. They're just two different paths you can follow.

From what I've gathered, linking the fire is better, but not by much. Apparently in DS3 you see a future where the fire has gone out and it's very dark and silent, like a night that never ends. Instead linking the fire has locked the world into a state of "Fire burns, fire gets low, world gets (more)shitty, somebody comes along and links it, world gets better". By DS2 apparently it's now considered a royal duty to link the fire and 3 is kicked off because the person who was designated to do it said "Nope. Not happening" and the fire is about to die.

DS3 apparently is one big implication that all of this linking of the fire was only delaying the inevitable. Eventually the fire is going to go out, because the world has gotten old and tired.

 

[Fox12]

Snip

Snip

Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yeah, you use the pillars on the sides of the arena as cover against Gwyndolin's magic attacks. Just zig-zag from the sides of the arena stopping at the pillars to recover your stamina.
When (s)he rises up on those weird snake legs it's to prepare for a hail of arrows. You can block those and close in to get a solid hit or three in. You don't need to worry about attacking too much and leaving yourself open, as Gwyndolin's response to being physically attacked is to teleport away.

Priscialla is actually fairly easy, and you'll have unlocked enough shortcuts that getting back to her to fight her is pretty easy. Plus if you're a cheevo-whore she has a tail-weapon to cut off.

What Fox fails to mention about Kaathe's schemes is that if the fire dies the world will become a dark bleak shitty place.
Kaathe has had a few machinations over the years, and they've all ended badly for all involved.
Sacrificing yourself to the first flame is good for all but you, the prophecy is to trick you into doing the right thing for the good of all.

Not necessarily. Kaathe isn't a very trustworthy dude, but there's no reason to assume that the world is screwed if the light goes out. The dark soul turned into the abyss because it was corrupted, and went wild. The same thing basically happened with chaos and the first flame. You could basically argue that the abyss is to humanity what chaos is to the first flame. Left alone, humanity seems harmless.

It's pretty open ended. I don't like to think of the endings as good or bad. They're just two different paths you can follow.

From what I've gathered, linking the fire is better, but not by much. Apparently in DS3 you see a future where the fire has gone out and it's very dark and silent, like a night that never ends. Instead linking the fire has locked the world into a state of "Fire burns, fire gets low, world gets (more)shitty, somebody comes along and links it, world gets better". By DS2 apparently it's now considered a royal duty to link the fire and 3 is kicked off because the person who was designated to do it said "Nope. Not happening" and the fire is about to die.

DS3 apparently is one big implication that all of this linking of the fire was only delaying the inevitable. Eventually the fire is going to go out, because the world has gotten old and tired.

I didn't get that impression at all. Every awful thing that happens is the result of people trying to prolong the age of fire, and in many cases life, beyond the point of what's natural. The world is constantly in flux, and trying to keep things stagnant only makes things worse. It leads to suffering and existential despair because it's impossible. Chaos is unleashed on the world because the lords tried reigniting the first flame. Seethe goes insane seeking immortality. The undead go hollow because they're unable to die. Darkness isn't evil, it's natural. The age of dragons led to the age of fire, and the age of fire led to the age of darkness. Eventually the age of darkness will give way to something else. All the suffering that occurs is the result of individuals trying to keep things from changing, and from being attached to worldly things. The whole game is steeped in existential philosophy.

I don't like talking about the DS3 lore, since it's an incoherent mess that contradicts itself, but it supports my point as well. The Lords of Cinder all peace out because they realize they're dying for nothing. It's better to let the world continue onto its next phase. The one lord who does show up seems to regret his decision rather quickly once he starts burning. Then there's the whole ordeal with the dead fire keepers and their stolen eyes. What's the point of the age of fire when the games make it clear that all the awful things that happen are the result of people trying to keep the fire burning? If anything, I thought all of the games took a rather negative view of linking the fire.

 

[Dalisclock]

Snip

Snip

Secret boss in Anor Londo? You mean Gwyndolin? I found him/her, tried a couple of times, but those magic attacks eat right through my shield for some heavy damage. I think I can pull it off, but decided to try the Painted World instead. What's the "everything else" I need to do before beating him/her? Do I lose access to Anor Londo or something? I think I've done everything; just need the blacksmith and I farm souls from the Silver Knights and Sentinels when times are tough and one more point in Endurance gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yeah, you use the pillars on the sides of the arena as cover against Gwyndolin's magic attacks. Just zig-zag from the sides of the arena stopping at the pillars to recover your stamina.
When (s)he rises up on those weird snake legs it's to prepare for a hail of arrows. You can block those and close in to get a solid hit or three in. You don't need to worry about attacking too much and leaving yourself open, as Gwyndolin's response to being physically attacked is to teleport away.

Priscialla is actually fairly easy, and you'll have unlocked enough shortcuts that getting back to her to fight her is pretty easy. Plus if you're a cheevo-whore she has a tail-weapon to cut off.

What Fox fails to mention about Kaathe's schemes is that if the fire dies the world will become a dark bleak shitty place.
Kaathe has had a few machinations over the years, and they've all ended badly for all involved.
Sacrificing yourself to the first flame is good for all but you, the prophecy is to trick you into doing the right thing for the good of all.

Not necessarily. Kaathe isn't a very trustworthy dude, but there's no reason to assume that the world is screwed if the light goes out. The dark soul turned into the abyss because it was corrupted, and went wild. The same thing basically happened with chaos and the first flame. You could basically argue that the abyss is to humanity what chaos is to the first flame. Left alone, humanity seems harmless.

It's pretty open ended. I don't like to think of the endings as good or bad. They're just two different paths you can follow.

From what I've gathered, linking the fire is better, but not by much. Apparently in DS3 you see a future where the fire has gone out and it's very dark and silent, like a night that never ends. Instead linking the fire has locked the world into a state of "Fire burns, fire gets low, world gets (more)shitty, somebody comes along and links it, world gets better". By DS2 apparently it's now considered a royal duty to link the fire and 3 is kicked off because the person who was designated to do it said "Nope. Not happening" and the fire is about to die.

DS3 apparently is one big implication that all of this linking of the fire was only delaying the inevitable. Eventually the fire is going to go out, because the world has gotten old and tired.

I didn't get that impression at all. Every awful thing that happens is the result of people trying to prolong the age of fire, and in many cases life, beyond the point of what's natural. The world is constantly in flux, and trying to keep things stagnant only makes things worse. It leads to suffering and existential despair because it's impossible. Chaos is unleashed on the world because the lords tried reigniting the first flame. Seethe goes insane seeking immortality. The undead go hollow because they're unable to die. Darkness isn't evil, it's natural. The age of dragons led to the age of fire, and the age of fire led to the age of darkness. Eventually the age of darkness will give way to something else. All the suffering that occurs is the result of individuals trying to keep things from changing, and from being attached to worldly things. The whole game is steeped in existential philosophy.

I don't like talking about the DS3 lore, since it's an incoherent mess that contradicts itself, but it supports my point as well. The Lords of Cinder all peace out because they realize they're dying for nothing. It's better to let the world continue onto its next phase. The one lord who does show up seems to regret his decision rather quickly once he starts burning. Then there's the whole ordeal with the dead fire keepers and their stolen eyes. What's the point of the age of fire when the games make it clear that all the awful things that happen are the result of people trying to keep the fire burning? If anything, I thought all of the games took a rather negative view of linking the fire.

I actually kind of agree with you on this. Linking the fire isn't really solving the problem. Instead of letting it run it's course, we just get people sarificing themselves over and over again so the age can drag itself on for a few more years. I wasn't trying to imply the age of fire was all peaches and cream, but rather that what we do know of the age of dark doesn't sound particularly wonderful either(from the DS1 intro and the bit in DS3 with the untended graves). It's the unfortunate thing that as bad as Lordran is, the rest of the world is implied to be worse. Lordran, at least, still has sunlight(even if it is an illusion).

But as you said, trying to infinitely prolong the age of fire has just created it's own set of problems. Vendrick knew this. He just didn't know how to fix it and it destroyed him in the end.

It would have been interesting to see a Dark Souls game set in the age of darkness so we could explore that a bit. I would have rather haven seen that then DS2, which while not bad at all, feels very different and DS3 like it's rehashing a lot of the points from the first game.