Dead Rising 3, WHAT HAPPENED?

[Amaror]

The problem is the publisher said they want it to appeal to call of duty players. Thats the whole problem, everyone wants their game to be serious and gritty to attract the massive fan base of the biggest selling game every year. At the same time they are alienating those customers that bought the games in the past and just like DMC and Xcom

Xcom, how?
Sure, it's not as deep as the original but nothing is nowadays (Nothing AAA, don't mention Dwarf Fortress), but it's still very tactical, it's still difficult on high difficulty levels and it's a lot of fun. How exactly were they alienating their fans, a lot of their fans praised them for that game.
And if anyone wants the exact xcom feel they can just play xenonauts anyway.

Well quite frankly a lot of old school Xcom fans didn't buy new the game when they saw what it was. Myself included. The only reason I own the game is because my parents got it for me for Christmas and I didn't have the heart to tell them what a let down it was when compared to my favorite game of all time. By itself its a good game and I do admit if it had another name I would be kinder to it but with the name Xcom its trying to live up to my favorite game of all time. They were counting on fans like me for sales or they wouldn't have used the name xcom. Its like watching a stranger wear a mask of your best friend while he pretends everything is normal. I understand people like it as is and that's fine, the game just doesn't do it for me though and it doesn't do it for a lot of xcom fans. Due to the drastic changes from the original it lost out on a lot of sales. Im actually not sure what the total sales vs budget were when the game was finally released (and it may be a bit early to tell still) however I do know a slew of people didn't buy the game so it was not as successful as it could have been if they had appealed to old school xcom fans

A good xcom-like game on the horizon is xenonaughts made by goldenhawk. I still have a few issues with that game but its more xcom then xcom is today. Many old school fans are much more friendly to it as well thinking that its a much closer resemblance

Anyway the fact remains that to grow a franchise you have to continue to cater to the people who made that franchise what it is. If you loose them your probably going to take a loss on the game.

Haha, sorry but it's kina funny how you really think they lost sales with their new course.
Yes, if they had been more true to the original they would have gotten more sales from real oldshool fans, but they would have never sold that many to not-oldshool-fans that it had.

I am not trying to insult you here, but i really think that's the case. Now i am a huge fan of the old xcom myself (I did mention that xenonauts was a truer xcom successor), but i also think that you might be victim to quite some nostalgia.
I love the original xcom but i didn't play it when it came out, i got into gaming way later, and only discovered it about 3 - 4 years ago. It is a fantastic game, but it had a lot of flaws, too.

It had no introduction or tutorial, you can't have something like that nowadays. Besides the progression with the weapons was too easy. You had access to the most powerfull weapon (Heavy Blaster) way too early. Most people that play that game skip the middle tier (laser weapons) completely.

But i do agree that the new game isn't perfect either. Sadly they stayed true to the original in some way and it is still pretty bugridden. The Air combat is just sad. It was the one thing the original did worst and the one thing they copied completely. The fact that there's only one alien base is just stupid and the limited possibilities to equip your soldiers are stupid, too.
But it's still a really fun game.

And a lot of changes were neccessary to make the game more accessible, because a game like that needs to sell a lot of units, and no the sales of the original xcom are not a lot of units nowadays.
Now making games accessible is kind of a curse word around here, but it doesn't have to mean what many associate with it.

It doesn't mean dumbing the game down, or making it easier. It just means more accessible.
Getting an increased amount of money from a country because you are supervising them via satelite is easliy understandable and can be used to strategise using basic math. It's accessible
Getting an increase or decrease in funding, based on the number of ufos you shot down, or didn't shoot or maybe didn't even see, or if you took out landed or crashed ufos or not is understandable. But you can't use it to strategise. You can't easily figure out the numbers to get if you should shoot down ufo a above asia or ufo b above europe. It's not accessible.

The cover system is there, because cover in the old game was daring at best. You could place your guy behind a lamp post and hope that he doesn't get hit, but you don't know how save he actually is.
Now you have high and low cover. When you send your soldier behind something you KNOW how much safer he is and from which direction the enemy has to come, for him to be saved by his cover.
The first provides a more more dynamic gameplay experience, but it's also harder to understand, harder to use to your advantage and just not very accessible.

Same thing with the country counsil.
In the original, you had to guess were the aliens might have build bases, find them and destroy them in order to prevent countries from stopping to fund your war.
In the new game you know exactly every time how much the countries like you, how high the threat of them leaving the project is and what you can do to stop it.
Again the first one is more dynamic, but it also is a lot more illusive. Players who play the game for the first time won't even know that alien bases exist and that you CAN loose countries completely.

Of course there are always opinions, but judging from your posts i am not sure you have even tried it. if you havent you should you might still like it. if you dont however, i, of course, wont try to convince you to like it and you have every right not to.

The main reason i am still discussing with you right now is the fact that you seem to think xcom failed financially which couldn't be more wrong. The game received fantastic reviews and alone on steam it was best seller for many weeks. And while i do believe that the game was not as good as it could have been, because of the reduced depth, it is just naive to think that the game would have sold more copies, if they had made it as randomized and complicated as the successor.

I guarantee you, with the inaccessibility of the original, the game wouldn't even have sold half the copies it has sold.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

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There was a crit intel post on that, however i knew some of it already from trawling internet forums. That said Halo likely will be GRITTY and REALISTIC! OORAH and all the jazz, likely it wont involve master chief since... hes kind of like superman. He has no weaknesses, has no moral waver, basically is a paragon of humanity. A movie yes, a series? No.

Likely it will involve say a fresh marine corp unit ala band of brothers (drop pod dudes forgot what they are called) that go in to battle and the series revolves around their hardships, their relationships and likely the most likeable or extroverted one will die. So like band of brothers (without extrovert dying) but with covenant.

Also.. how do people do that snip thing so they dont show a giant quote + text wall post?

If you are referring to ODST then that might work. But if you want to know what I would like out of a Halo franchise, Check out Halo Legends: homecoming. It's a deconstruction of the Spartan program and the effects on the Super soldiers themselves. For action, check out some of Monty Oum's work for RvB.

 

[Darks63]

Well, for me Dead Rising 2 was already a disappointment. Not that the original game didn't have a ton of annoyances up the wazoo, but the simple act of killing zombies felt really, really good, and Frank West was likable s.o.b. Something the sequel was totally missing. The satire was gone as well, and that inclusion of a freaking daughter didn't help much either.

Get off the record it removes all the daughter nonsense and you are able to use zombrex in a non stupid way. also you get to be (a fat balding) Frank West who is a witty as ever.

edit: Forgot to mention there is also an infinite mode in Off the record like there was in DR1

OT: You know thanks guys i was kinda mad about the whole exclusivity of DR3 to the Xbox only but now I don't feel like i'm gonna miss out on anything worthwhile tyvm.

I honestly have no idea why people like Frank West. He was a one-lining douchebag, incapable of anything even remotely human-like. In Case: West he gets much better, but DR1 Frank has to be the most overhyped mofo in the history of gaming.

Chuck Greene however, is the glue that, IMO, helds DR2 together to make a much better game than 1. The way he acts as the One Sane Man, trying to keep it together when the world around him is going insane and falling apart. He can do anything Frank can, and better, but the doesn't feel the need to be a total douchebag about it (witty one-liners aside, which are acceptable because we aren't hearing them ALL THE FUCKING TIME).

Also, if you think giving Zombrex to your daughter is stupid, and if you rather leave a pile of medicine which can save her life in the hands of a guy who you barely met and survivors who probably think they got bitten when they arrive/are actually bitten, I advise some serious counseling.

It's not the getting her zombrex that is stupid part. It's that you have to drop everything to run over there to do it yourself when Stacy is right there in the room with Katie. If you left the Zombrex with her it would be in her best interests to administer it to Katey if you can't make it by some arbitrary timeline.

BTW I also got to like Chuck after an adjusting period and I even got the S rank ending despite all the annoyances. But to me Off the Record was just the more fun game due to the infinite mode and feeling less shackled by the whole zombrex thing.

 

[Windcaler]

*sniped*

Paragraphs please, that is impossible for me to read. I got as far as Nostalgia before my eyes just couldn't take it anymore but that is something I do want to talk about. Why is it that anytime someone says they like an older version of something someone throws up the nostalgia card? Its very much used like the mention of race, racism, or perceived racism in most political discussions. Its so often used to misdirect the actual discussion or "de-claw" valid points that its loosing its actual meaning.

I cant speak for anyone but myself when it comes to xcom. In my case its not a game that I played 5 or 10 years ago and have happy memories of. Its my favorite game of all time and one I play a couple times a week. The reasons why its so good and the pitfalls it has are fresh in my mind because I just played the game a couple days ago. Saying its nostalgia, as used in its usual dismissive tone, when I make a valid point such as "I don't like the hard choices system" or "I want to build multiple bases" or "I dislike the randomness or pigdionholing of the class system" is frankly dishonest

 

[Smeggs]

Shame it's Xbone exclusive, it looks like a step toward the type of zombie game I've always wanted; city scavenging survival adventure. I honestly didn't care for the zaniness of the first two games. It felt a bit too much like one big joke to me, not in the good way.

 

[TeaCeremony]

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If you are referring to ODST then that might work. But if you want to know what I would like out of a Halo franchise, Check out Halo Legends: homecoming. It's a deconstruction of the Spartan program and the effects on the Super soldiers themselves. For action, check out some of Monty Oum's work for RvB.

I would say that a drama on the Halo storyline wouldnt work out. Its Steven Spielburg so theres going to be some kind of large scale battle. However its Halo... people will come in and expect something to resemble the games ala lots of alien killing. I think you have forgotten that this is an Xbox1 exclusive, as in its their flagship tv series. So a drama wont cut it, they need something like transformers or saving private ryan in order to actually draw in the mass crowd and push the Xbox1 as an entertainment system.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

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If you are referring to ODST then that might work. But if you want to know what I would like out of a Halo franchise, Check out Halo Legends: homecoming. It's a deconstruction of the Spartan program and the effects on the Super soldiers themselves. For action, check out some of Monty Oum's work for RvB.

I would say that a drama on the Halo storyline wouldnt work out. Its Steven Spielburg so theres going to be some kind of large scale battle. However its Halo... people will come in and expect something to resemble the games ala lots of alien killing. I think you have forgotten that this is an Xbox1 exclusive, as in its their flagship tv series. So a drama wont cut it, they need something like transformers or saving private ryan in order to actually draw in the mass crowd and push the Xbox1 as an entertainment system.

Yeah, I figured no one wanted a deconstruction of the series. Not too keen on transformers due to its focus on superficial action instead of meaningful characters. Saving Private Ryan however may work but the tension will have to be improvised as loss of limbs probably isn't as problematic in a world of armored suits (prosthetics probably have gotten really good)

 

[G-Force]

Well, for me Dead Rising 2 was already a disappointment. Not that the original game didn't have a ton of annoyances up the wazoo, but the simple act of killing zombies felt really, really good, and Frank West was likable s.o.b. Something the sequel was totally missing. The satire was gone as well, and that inclusion of a freaking daughter didn't help much either.

There were plenty of Satire elements such as the emphasis of reality TV, equal rights protestors, militant patriots and other elements of Americana. I don't see how DR2 failed when it improved on so many elements of DR1 by giving us more weapons, the ability to make combo weapons and great partner AI that didn't make escorts painfully dull.

Plus if you like Frank so much there's Off the Record

 

[TeaCeremony]

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Yeah, I figured no one wanted a deconstruction of the series. Not too keen on transformers due to its focus on superficial action instead of meaningful characters. Saving Private Ryan however may work but the tension will have to be improvised as loss of limbs probably isn't as problematic in a world of armored suits (prosthetics probably have gotten really good)

Well i feel forward unto dawn was a great series. That little mini-series before Halo 4 came out. If they did something like that it would be really enjoyable e.g. following the life of a cadet as grows up through combat and eventually becomes an ODST trooper. Im not sure how later spartans were created but maybe he could even work out to become a spartan (assuming they moved on from the abducting children phase of the operation). With prosthetics, i only noticed 1 character from the series that had it, that being the spartan in Reach. Im assuming maybe the plasma would make prosthetics much harder to implant and that could be an issue e.g. destroyed nerves?

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

There are so many zombie games that I really find it hard to give a damn whether one or another is any good. They're all generic and bland, no matter what twists they care to put in them. Even games which aren't zombie games, get zombies in them, like Saints Row 3, CoD, Borderlands and so on.

Why no vampire games? I know we have Dark coming out, but that's one game. What about werewolves? Seriously? Why always with the fu***ng zombies? What about ghosts, mummys, skeletons? Imps and demons? There are so many undead and horrific creatures out there why are there 100x as many zombie games as any other kind, excepting MMSs?

Something original please.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

There are so many zombie games that I really find it hard to give a damn whether one or another is any good. They're all generic and bland, no matter what twists they care to put in them. Even games which aren't zombie games, get zombies in them, like Saints Row 3, CoD, Borderlands and so on.

Why no vampire games? I know we have Dark coming out, but that's one game. What about werewolves? Seriously? Why always with the fu***ng zombies? What about ghosts, mummys, skeletons? Imps and demons? There are so many undead and horrific creatures out there why are there 100x as many zombie games as any other kind, excepting MMSs?

Something original please.

I think the popularity of zombies stemms from the ease of the power trip it gives when fighting them, and the ease of their creation both in the game, and in the meta-game.

Werewolves, and vampires, ghosts, and arguably mummies can be a total pain to take down, as are a great deal of the foes on your list, especially in large groups depending on how well they stick to lore. I mean, most of them aren't really harmed by typical bullets. Sure the game world can give you special killing weapons to hit the supernatural normally, but these foes can be intelligent. They require a worthwhile AI. If they aren't suitably powerful, what would set them apart from zombies, or human enemies?

Skeletons? Easy enough to take down in most cases, but usually the diffirence between a skeleton and a zombie is how much skin they have on them. Making them in large numbers? Only a few methods come to mind. Mostly magic. It'd be hard to imagine reanimating a skeleton with a virus as there's generally not much left to carry the virus.

Zombies? Not so much a problem. The typical game zombies are easy to slaughter, are just effective enough to be dangerous if left ignored, and easy to believe attacking in huge packs without being overwhelming in large numbers so long as you don't ignore them. They're easy to create believeable variations of, and mass produce, too.
They might be easier to make as fodder as they're very similar to the human form, and aren't really intelligent, so the AI behind them doesn't have to be stellar. Zombie combat is fairly unique, too.

If it makes you feel any better, there's the "blood sucker" pack for Saints Row 3 where you can nom on human shields for bloody bloody health.

But do you want to play as a supernatural character, or fight them? Doesn't Dark put you in the role of a vampire?

 

[Amaror]

*sniped*

Paragraphs please, that is impossible for me to read. I got as far as Nostalgia before my eyes just couldn't take it anymore but that is something I do want to talk about. Why is it that anytime someone says they like an older version of something someone throws up the nostalgia card? Its very much used like the mention of race, racism, or perceived racism in most political discussions. Its so often used to misdirect the actual discussion or "de-claw" valid points that its loosing its actual meaning.

I cant speak for anyone but myself when it comes to xcom. In my case its not a game that I played 5 or 10 years ago and have happy memories of. Its my favorite game of all time and one I play a couple times a week. The reasons why its so good and the pitfalls it has are fresh in my mind because I just played the game a couple days ago. Saying its nostalgia, as used in its usual dismissive tone, when I make a valid point such as "I don't like the hard choices system" or "I want to build multiple bases" or "I dislike the randomness or pigdionholing of the class system" is frankly dishonest

No, just no, i am not writing that again. When you don't want to read my post and don't want to get what i was saying, then don't discuss with me, but i am not going to answer a annoying accusation , because you did not read what i wrote.
I will edit it to contain more paragraphs, if your eyes really need it.

 

[Windcaler]

No, just no, i am not writing that again. When you don't want to read my post and don't want to get what i was saying, then don't discuss with me, but i am not going to answer a annoying accusation , because you did not read what i wrote.
I will edit it to contain more paragraphs, if your eyes really need it.

Please do. Ill be happy to respond to a post that does not look like a massive jumble of words after the first few lines. As is its far to easy to get lost in it because of the lack of structure.

 

[JamesStone]

I honestly have no idea why people like Frank West. He was a one-lining douchebag, incapable of anything even remotely human-like. In Case: West he gets much better, but DR1 Frank has to be the most overhyped mofo in the history of gaming.

Chuck Greene however, is the glue that, IMO, helds DR2 together to make a much better game than 1. The way he acts as the One Sane Man, trying to keep it together when the world around him is going insane and falling apart. He can do anything Frank can, and better, but the doesn't feel the need to be a total douchebag about it (witty one-liners aside, which are acceptable because we aren't hearing them ALL THE FUCKING TIME).

Also, if you think giving Zombrex to your daughter is stupid, and if you rather leave a pile of medicine which can save her life in the hands of a guy who you barely met and survivors who probably think they got bitten when they arrive/are actually bitten, I advice some serious counseling.

Except that Dead Rising was not a serious game. It was a big fat satire of American culture and the zombie genre. It was simple zombie killing fun wrapped up in a campy package. DR2 trying to implement serious drama to a game where you can wear Groucho Marx glasses and ride a tricycle is where the franchise lost me.

And not caring about a forced daughter plotline is hardly something to seek counseling over.

In my opinion that's were DR1 fell short. There was no middle term. No line, no limit. The survivors were crazy douchebags, the psycopaths were crazy douchebags, and Frank was a crazy douchebag. After a while, all that silliness started to feel in-universe, and as you got more immersed, you got more bored, because you started to assume that's how that world worked, that it was normal.

With the introduction of one serious character (Chuck), you see what is normal and what isn't. Chuck being the One Sane Man makes everything else seem crazier by comparison. Him trying to stay calm and rational while we (the player) make him go around in Groucho Marx glasses and a dress (something which he will tell us how strongly he feels about) makes us see how insane the world, and we are. And the fun never feels underwhelmed by the normality of the situation.

A moodbreaker is required in every comedy to make us appreciate the funny elements more. There's no fun in seeing a guy getting kicked in the balls for 50 minutes, and that's what DR1 is. An unrefined, unpolished sack of bad jokes, which can be apreciated ironically but there's no satisfaction the them because there's no setup. Just an endless amount of cheesy, lame punchlines. DR2 manages to create some very serious and heavy moments, and for that every other aspect of it's comedy feels funnier.

 

[JamesStone]

Well, for me Dead Rising 2 was already a disappointment. Not that the original game didn't have a ton of annoyances up the wazoo, but the simple act of killing zombies felt really, really good, and Frank West was likable s.o.b. Something the sequel was totally missing. The satire was gone as well, and that inclusion of a freaking daughter didn't help much either.

Get off the record it removes all the daughter nonsense and you are able to use zombrex in a non stupid way. also you get to be (a fat balding) Frank West who is a witty as ever.

edit: Forgot to mention there is also an infinite mode in Off the record like there was in DR1

OT: You know thanks guys i was kinda mad about the whole exclusivity of DR3 to the Xbox only but now I don't feel like i'm gonna miss out on anything worthwhile tyvm.

I honestly have no idea why people like Frank West. He was a one-lining douchebag, incapable of anything even remotely human-like. In Case: West he gets much better, but DR1 Frank has to be the most overhyped mofo in the history of gaming.

Chuck Greene however, is the glue that, IMO, helds DR2 together to make a much better game than 1. The way he acts as the One Sane Man, trying to keep it together when the world around him is going insane and falling apart. He can do anything Frank can, and better, but the doesn't feel the need to be a total douchebag about it (witty one-liners aside, which are acceptable because we aren't hearing them ALL THE FUCKING TIME).

Also, if you think giving Zombrex to your daughter is stupid, and if you rather leave a pile of medicine which can save her life in the hands of a guy who you barely met and survivors who probably think they got bitten when they arrive/are actually bitten, I advise some serious counseling.

It's not the getting her zombrex that is stupid part. It's that you have to drop everything to run over there to do it yourself when Stacy is right there in the room with Katie. If you left the Zombrex with her it would be in her best interests to administer it to Katey if you can't make it by some arbitrary timeline.

BTW I also got to like Chuck after an adjusting period and I even got the S rank ending despite all the annoyances. But to me Off the Record was just the more fun game due to the infinite mode and feeling less shackled by the whole zombrex thing.

Ok in that we can agree of. I'd like that after 3 doses of Zombrex (3 cases) Chuck would just stop being distrustful and gave all his zombrex to Stacy so she can administer the cure, and the presence of an infinity mode. No arguments there.
I just don't like Frank West much. In Case:West he was actually a very good character, but in DR1 he was just despicable, in my opinion, and he appears to have reverted to that persona in OFR. I didn't get it for that reason, and because of the giant robot Stacy boss fight (seriously, fuck that in the bum with a spiky iron club).

 

[immortalfrieza]

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I'm hoping you're right. After all, if you go by the main plot of the DR games so far exclusively it's pretty serious overall, most of the humor that the player themselves don't create comes from the psychos and survivors, so maybe DR3 will be the same. However, if the first trailer and whatever else we've heard so far is indicative of the game as a whole then I get a bad feeling in my stomach.

After all, there's already a serious survival horror series with no time limit, save anywhere, (more like autosave everywhere really) weapon crafting, anything is a weapon, and so forth, it's called Dead Island. While I like the DI series, I already HAVE a serious survival horror zombie game, Dead Rising gives me a more comical zombie fix, which is one of the reasons I like it. I also like the timer aspect which most people seem to hate, so what do I know?

 

[immortalfrieza]

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I think it's understandable that everybody is nuts in DR1, if you go by the situation they're in. This is the first zombie outbreak that anyone has actually survived, the psychos deal with it by well, going nuts and killing people in various ways, the survivors deal with it by freaking out and panicking all the time, and Frank deals with it by throwing out corny one liners and sarcastic quips.

Chuck, on the other hand, is the Only Sane Man thanks to starring in that reality show I can't remember the name of right now is used to dealing with zombies all the time, as well as having his daughter around to keep him grounded makes him one of the few people who CAN stay sane in that kind of situation.

As for Case West and OTR, one could argue that with the former Frank is more used to zombies by then and thus acts more serious about it, and in the latter he reverts back to form, but I think the latter is just the developers pandering to the fans that liked the old Frank more.

 

[Tyrant_Valvatorez]

I think at this point Capcom are going out of their way to ruin franchises now, the only ones they have not ruined so far are Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney. Technically Ace Attorney is being held hostage at this point since they don't care bout the fans outside Japan.

The whole we are appealing to COD fans will backfire spectacularly, what is it with developers and publishers gutting the uniqueness out of their games? It is extremely frustrating to see something quirky and fun become dull and bland.

 

[southparkdudez]

I think at this point Capcom are going out of their way to ruin franchises now, the only ones they have not ruined so far are Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney. Technically Ace Attorney is being held hostage at this point since they don't care bout the fans outside Japan.

The whole we are appealing to COD fans will backfire spectacularly, what is it with developers and publishers gutting the uniqueness out of their games? It is extremely frustrating to see something quirky and fun become dull and bland.

How is Monster hunter ruin? Ps I've never played one but I really want to.

 

[JamesStone]

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I think it's understandable that everybody is nuts in DR1, if you go by the situation they're in. This is the first zombie outbreak that anyone has actually survived, the psychos deal with it by well, going nuts and killing people in various ways, the survivors deal with it by freaking out and panicking all the time, and Frank deals with it by throwing out corny one liners and sarcastic quips.

Chuck, on the other hand, is the Only Sane Man thanks to starring in that reality show I can't remember the name of right now is used to dealing with zombies all the time, as well as having his daughter around to keep him grounded makes him one of the few people who CAN stay sane in that kind of situation.

As for Case West and OTR, one could argue that with the former Frank is more used to zombies by then and thus acts more serious about it, and in the latter he reverts back to form, but I think the latter is just the developers pandering to the fans that liked the old Frank more.

Never thought of it that way. It has a small scent of handwave to it, but overhaul it's a fair explanation. Still don't like OTR though, because I hate the thought of Capcom making money on what's essentially fanfiction, by releasing the same exact game, with a different character and a much shitter story.