Dev admits DNF was dumbed down for consoles.

[Woodsey]

Yay... another thread indirectly attacking console players.

No it isn't. Its about control schemes, not players. Don't be so sensitive, and read the OP.

I did read the OP, thank you. Hence me saying it's an indirect attack on console players if for no other reason than a controller obviously not having as many buttons/keys than a keyboard.

Its not an indirect attack on console players because gamepads can't cope with weapon switches as well as a mouse wheel. That is saying absolutely nothing about console players.

"But hey, I'm just an idiot console player, right? What the hell do I know..."

Oh, shut up. You obviously have some inferiority issues you need to work on. Maybe he used the words "dumbed down" because he didn't expect anyone to have such a massive issue over something so irrelevant.

 

[Inconspicuous Trenchcoat]

Gearbox made an excuse in the OP's link something like, well, we're already using the D-pad for Duke Vision, Holo Duke etc. Couldn't they just make up and down cycle through Duke's utility and skills, and left and right cycle weapons? Or just do a selection wheel.

Watching TB play through the demo disappointed me a bit. Duke did not seem very BAMF. He felt... too frail for Duke. The only 2 weapon thing didn't help. Duke carries as many weapons as he pleases...

The dev said only having two weapons brought interesting choice into the gameplay. Well, having an entire arsenal at your whim does the same thing, AND if choice equals good gameplay as you say, then an entire armory is also more fun!

Who cares about "balance" in an over the top single player campaign. Borderlands wasn't "balanced," and it was still great fun.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Haha, this is a terrible excuse. Metroid Prime has more than two weapons (and a "weapon wheel"-type thing) and it doesn't even have a second analog stick.

 

[Alexander Cunningham]

I give it a week after release before crazed mod teams bring infinite weapons carriage.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU TYPE THIS?

 

[crono738]

Wait, what?... They dumbed down the amount of weapons due to controller restraints? I remember Resistance: Fall of Man have a weapon wheel that worked quite well. As for the mighty boot... I'm assuming thats some kind of kick?. Like the one in Bulletstorm maybe?.... What the hell..

This. Saying that the amount of weapons you can carry is restricted by controller buttons is bullshit. Hell, Red Faction 1 & 2 didn't have this problem on the PS2/Xbox.

 

[Spygon]

Sorry what? consoles can not change between more than two weapons is total bullshit.Duke nukem 3d on the playstation allowed you to change between multiple weapons and that had even less buttons.

 

[Ultra_Caboose]

I can't really say that was the best decision... Hell, I don't play PC games, but I've played enough shooters to know my way around a menu wheel. I can understand the gameplay choice from a strategic perspective, having to carefully weigh your options before switching weapons, but Duke Nukem is definitely not a game that should be so limiting.

The only part that bugs me is that the dev's are just doing this to follow trends. They make a good point talking about balancing the challenge of a level when a character has 2 guns as opposed to all of them, but all that really requires is limiting powerful ammo or dropping more powerful enemies in with the rest of the group. Doom 3, while not the best shooter, allowed you to carry every weapon you came across and just decided to hand out powerful ammunition in rare drops, making your overpowering arsenal much more limited. It's not below Duke Nukem to have the same kind of set-up.

At this point, I think that Gearbox is just getting assaulted by marketing. The investors have waited 14 years for one game, pumping millions of dollars into it, so now they want to ensure that the game can be played by as many people as possible. Dumbed down controls and weapon selection is just another one of those "Do what the profitable guys are doing" schticks, and unfortunately it's there to stay.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Snip

It's not Gearbox's claim,it's 3D Realms's claim.

Nowhere in the OP's post or in the link, does it say that it is 3D Realm's claim. Since the claim was from a Dev, and 3D Realms actually isn't in existence anymore(if I remember correctly), Gearbox picked up the game and finished it. So it is a Gearbox Dev that is saying it, he said that they had to dumb it down.

Again, I will say that Gearbox is lazy and didn't take an extra month to add a simple gun loadout screen so that players could have all 10 or however many guns on them at all times.

 

[Snotnarok]

I had zero interest in the game when I heard your health regens. Probably turning the game from an awesome Serious Sam run and gun game to, hide behind a wall sucking your thumb.

 

[SageRuffin]

Stuff and stuff.

How is it irrelevant? I'm one of many console players. The thread is about DNF being "dumbed down" for consoles.

Sure, the lack of a weapon wheel or d-pad switch system mechanic doesn't make a lot sense. Trust me, I understand that - Bulletstorm, Serious Sam... hell, fucking Ninja Gaiden 2, an action game, made it work. But like I said, I wouldn't be so up in arms about the term if not for the common - I repeat, the common - connotation.

Or did you forget I said that?

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Gearbox made an excuse in the OP's link something like, well, we're already using the D-pad for Duke Vision, Holo Duke etc. Couldn't they just make up and down cycle through Duke's utility and skills, and left and right cycle weapons? Or just do a selection wheel.

Mass Effect 2 used a bumper button with a load out menu for picking of the weapon to switch to, plus it had used one of the four side buttons as a cycle button, press it and it switches to the next button in line.

I don't see why they couldn't use something similar. I wonder what the bumper buttons are used for, possibly "Wiggling the Duke's ears".

 

[Hyper-space]

The problem with the 2 weapon capacity in games is that the developer effectively chooses the weapons for you for a given situation because the weapons that are dropping (or found) at any time can tell the player what is coming next.
whenever a shrink ray is found in a level, the designer is telling the player that that would be the best weapon for whatever lies ahead since it cannot be expected that the player has kept the shrink ray from last time.
however with the ability to have all guns on standby the player must make a choice. Do I use my shrink ray now and possibly not have enough ammo later on in the game, or use more bullets and health, while risking a game over screen in the hopes of alleviating a tough situation later? every time they fight.
Sure the first time a weapon is found it is expected to be used, but after the initial tutorial encounter for the weapon, it becomes difficult to predict when it will be needed again. In this way it is possible for a shortsighted player to use up all of his shrink ray ammo mid game, and be powerless or disadvantaged against a very large enemy later on.
That is why i find limited weapon capacity in a FPS game irritating.

What you are talking about is simply one possible outcome of having a two-weapon limit, meaning in light of DNF still not being out yet, it carries as much validity as saying that being able to carry 10 weapons or more means the player would end up with tons of ammo for the exotic weapons because you only had to use it once or twice.

Simply put, your scenario implies knowledge of how the game is and how their design-choices will pan out, which is false considering that the game is unreleased.

 

[Vibhor]

I sincerely hope the game gets critically panned for gameplay so that any developer would think twice before ruining old school run and gun games(I am waiting for a "realistic" version of painkiller to happen, then I can announce the end of the world)

 

[Kuilui]

I've seen the demo. It was pretty sad honestly, it was like watching master chief fight with a new skin on. I find it hilarious that their excuse was " so uh, yea console players.." Instead of just manning up and admitting they were just lazy and didn't care.

 

[TheDooD]

lol @ all of the PC elitist morons getting another dose of reality. Another moment foreshadowing console gaming slowly but surely making PC gaming irrelevant.

Its bittersweet for me, Because I love pc games too, but it is amusing to see these head in the sand PC elitists react every time its revealed that consoles are setting the trends now, and pc gaming is slowly dying.

If anything consoles are emulating PC's and the difference between both is that you'll might catch a lawsuit if you dare mod a console. Also I don't see anybody here being an PC elitist they're being a purist to the Duke Nukem brand which is what people were hoping for after waiting 12 years. If you waited for something for that long and they NOW just say we "can't" do this and that wouldn't you be angry too.

You're so far up on your high horse to see the difference between PC elitism and being purist to a brand. A majority of games people have compared are both PC and Console games that had the multiple weapon wheel system and it worked. They're angry that how in the fuck you take 12 years to make this and you "can't figure out" how to get a weapon wheel to work.

People acted like this when any game they loved and enjoyed ended up bastardized due to not sticking to what made the game great overall and going for trying to bring in people who never cared for the series in the first place.

 

[Pearwood]

I am honestly dumbstruck by this.

I have to admit I am a PC elitest, but this is so damn sad.

A core game that was on the pc and even refined what could be done with an FPS is now dumbed down because of console... sigh.

Don't worry, that's not the real reason. Sounds like the devs are just making excuses that their fans will buy. Most console games have a button that opens a select weapon menu that works perfectly well. So it's dumbed down because the designers are dumb.

 

[TimeLord]

What? Seriously? There have been hundreds of games on PS2 where you can carry more than two weapons. Off the top of my head I pull Red Faction 1+2, where you could carry as many weapons as you could find on the level at one time.

Hell! RF1 eventually let you carry every single weapon in the game because it was an awesome game and didn't have defined levels and so let you keep all your weapons and ammo so you reached the point where you were running through a space station on a time limit to get to the escape pods before it exploded and you had to take out enemies along the way by switching from anything to the Control Baton to a Fusion Rocket Lancher to a RailGun to 8/9 different other weapons at any time.

And as for the mighty boot/Bulletstorm type thing?

Bullshit Gearbox. Bullshit.
Now I'm annoyed and am going to play a proper old school FPS because the one game I thought could break from power armoured slow ass space marines with 2 weapons has crashed and burned at my feet.

 

[funguy2121]

Most people dissappointed with the DNF demo complained about some very odd design desicions.
First of all you can only have 2 weapons and switch them in a copy of the halo 1 system. this doesn't really work as 3d realms level design requires you to rapidly change qwickly between multiple weapons.
Also the "mighty boot" was replaced by halos melee system.

Here's a Devs response to the topic:
http://www.shacknews.com/chatty?id=26031903#itemanchor_26031903

They dumbed the amount of weapons down because of a lack of buttons on controllers and while they where alright with doing tweaks for the consoles they where to lazy to fix DNF for keyboard and mouse and allow the cut features on pc.

DNF was really damaged by the multiplatform release, a selection wheel for consoles would have worked in my opinion but hey now the design is bad on both platforms for blandness sake.
Avoid, get Alice or Deus ex. the deus ex team apparantly gave a shit.

It took me a minute to figure out what DNF is. Friggin' acronyms. Please stop assuming everyone on here knows what you're talking about and take the time to spell out the title you're referencing at least once.

The 2-weapon system is severely limiting but isn't a "copy" of anything. It's industry standard. If you're gonna go for realism, why not a sidearm or 2 in addition to a couple of weapons? But it's Duke Nukem, and anyone who's going to make a Duke Nukem game is going to make crap. Hell, did you play the old games?

"Dumbed down." A number cannot be dumb, at least one that exists anyway. Your source was just a poor excuse for a poor game. Duke didn't suffer because like so many other games there's not enough variety, and I don't believe there's something mystical about the levels that demand that the player carry seventeen weapons at all time. Being a multiplatform release didn't hurt it either: being a remake of a sequel of a Doom clone / Bruce Campbell ripoff and not an original idea hurt it.

 

[TrevHead]

I really dont understand Gearbox, they are marketting DNF towards its fans and those who love old skool FPS, using slogan like "No cover". And then go about including everything else that sucks about modern FPS games.

2 weapons only (meaning players will rarly use exotic weapons unless they know what lies ahead and have to spend time fetchin them)
No Boot (WTF!)
Regen Lifebar which can only take a couple of hits (Which forces ppl to use cover)
Cant run sideways (been able to stafe quickly is usefull when fighting in the open)

As someone who was really looking forward to this game im very disapointed and wont be buying this POS. Im sure it will still sell like hotcakes due to the games IP and sex jokes

So that leaves Serious Sam 3 as the only game to give us some classic FPS fun. I pray they dont fuck that up aswell.

 

[William Dickbringer]

I am honestly dumbstruck by this.

I have to admit I am a PC elitest, but this is so damn sad.

A core game that was on the pc and even refined what could be done with an FPS is now dumbed down because of console... sigh.

This is a load of crap. Console games are capable of having more than 2 weapons at a time. They just want to jump on the console tards bandwagon so they don't have to admit that they did a lazy job and couldn't give a shit.

/rant

"Dumbed down because of consoles"

That's bullshit and they know it. Ever remember the massive weapon ensemble in Timesplitters? That's why we still have the directional pad on our controllers.

Too many people are taking the easy way out, look at Dragon Age 2 for example. "Dumbed down for consoles" is now the catchphrase for Devs doing a half assed job at something (DA2) or want to copy another more successful game (DNF) and get out of the shitstorm smelling like roses.

these two commenters sum up my response to you