Actually I've looked at some new anime recently. The Japanese might be making a come back, some of this stuff is looking really good.
Never count them out.
Never count them out.
Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?
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No, it's more a matter of being "called" so many times on various things and then taking the time to rebut them to be met with nothing but disrespect that I don't bother much anymore when it comes to certain topics. People can either take what I have to say, or leave it.DrVornoff said:
What your perceiving as arrogance is actually a pretty recent stance on my part, in response to this community and it's general leanings. I can't force someone to acknowlege the truth, so they ultimatly are either going to accept it through taking my word, or doing the research themselves and finding I was right, or remaining ignorant. It's really pretty simple.
Also, understand something that a "counter arguement" is not saying someone is incorrect, especially when they are dealing with hard facts. Nor is it making absurd parallels, such as trying to say "well, if you think that, then you must also believe in this other bizzare thing" or stringing up a strawman arguement. 99% of the time people I'm talking to have absolutly no validity to anything they are saying in response to what I'm saying, other than them disagreeing with me, usually without any real base. Oftentimes what they say has also already been covered in my (very long) posts, even if they choose not to accept it. What's more another key element is pointing out an exception (which I myself admit will always exist) does not invalidate everything someone else says, just conveys that there is an exception which by being an exception is frequently not even relevent to the matter being discussed.
Yes, I've been less willing to play games over the last few months than I have been previously on the Escapist. I see no reason to engage in a month long circular arguement with people who aren't going to accept the truth no matter how much reinforcing evidence I provide.
What's more, experience counts for a lot. In a lot of cases I pretty much am the kind of source someone who was doing serious research would consult with. That makes argueing with me paticularly absurd. It depends on the topic, but I did spend 10 years working casino security and received a lot of odd training over the time period, and dealt with a lot of differant types of situations and people, conducted investigations, wrote reports, and occasionally worked with groups like the State/Tribal police, State Liquor Comission, and other groups. My basic take is that if you don't want to believe me on certain matters, then it doesn't matter what ANYONE tells you because any of them could be lying about their experience and knowlege no matter what they put up or where...
You might not like it, but that's where I'm coming from.
At some point I might sit down and play devil's advocate with one of my own commonly held positions to show people exactly the kinds of approaches to questioning what I said that happen to be valid. I've had a lot of decent debates over the years, but few of them on this site (or Palladiumbooks where I used to hang out a lot), mostly I just deal with people raging because they can't handle hearing the other side or bring themselves to admit that it's in any way valid.
If someones argument to not like a game is 'cause they think it's teh 'gay', they're probably not one who has a good opinion.
I consider the art style to be a component of a game and a game to be made of many components. It's difficult for one component to completely swat my opinion of a game the same way its difficult for one action an individual does to sway my entire opinion on that person. I'd have to really, really, really, really, (and did I mention really?) be put off by the art style to judge the whole game negatively based on it. No art style so far has done that.
I'm about half and half on this issue. I have played and enjoyed multiple JRPGS, including Final Fantasy X, Tales of Symphonia and Sword of Mana. There are also Jrpgs that I would not touch with a 10-foot pole (I'm looking at your White Knight Chronicles). I do watch anime and I do read manga, and I enjoy the typical-shounen art style. What makes or breaks a JRPG for me is the way it's designed. I could care less about the eastern art design of a character as long as they are interesting. I can accept some the outlandish story elements that are inserted into the games (And a quick side note, what you will notice after playing some japanese games and reading some manga is that the Japanese rely heavily upon the suspension of disbelief in the audience. You basically have to accept some of the crazy stuff that's offered as a core part of the narrative. This does not, however, justify any negative impact this might have on the narrative itself).
When I do decide on a JRPG, I apply the same filters as I would most other story-based game, Like Mass Effect 3 or Fallout.
-Is the story engaging, and how does the game achieve this?
-Are the characters interesting enough for me to care about/sympathize with/intentionally hate?
-Is the game itself fun to play? You have to consider that in the case of Eastern rpgs, especially korean mmorpgs, a "fun difficulty curve" can simply consist of half-hour long boss fights and ridiculous skill challenges that would frustrate an average player
-Are the elements of the game which include:music,voice acting, writing, design, etc. good?
I can understand western gamers' potential aversion to the JRPGS. It's the same scenario with a book or movie of foreign origin. The artistic context of the game is rooted in the cultural background of the original target audience, hence why the Japanese like Visual Novels and the Americans get flooded with subpar first-person shooters. Translating these themes across other cultures can be difficult, resulting in the game being disliked on the foreign side.
When I do decide on a JRPG, I apply the same filters as I would most other story-based game, Like Mass Effect 3 or Fallout.
-Is the story engaging, and how does the game achieve this?
-Are the characters interesting enough for me to care about/sympathize with/intentionally hate?
-Is the game itself fun to play? You have to consider that in the case of Eastern rpgs, especially korean mmorpgs, a "fun difficulty curve" can simply consist of half-hour long boss fights and ridiculous skill challenges that would frustrate an average player
-Are the elements of the game which include:music,voice acting, writing, design, etc. good?
I can understand western gamers' potential aversion to the JRPGS. It's the same scenario with a book or movie of foreign origin. The artistic context of the game is rooted in the cultural background of the original target audience, hence why the Japanese like Visual Novels and the Americans get flooded with subpar first-person shooters. Translating these themes across other cultures can be difficult, resulting in the game being disliked on the foreign side.
Infamous 2 probabaly has my favorite visual style of anything I have played because the characters look and sound like regular people.
But it also has some interesting monsters
I'm not too sure I get what you mean. I guess 'collective genre' threw me off a bit. Considering anime is "animation from Japan" that means it can be horror. If a Japanese animation studio took a horror movie and animated it frame by frame (or made an anime almost exactly like a horror movie), it would be considered anime, but it's not different from a horror movie other than aesthetics. Even though it's animated by a Japanese studio, it still shares too many elements from horror films to not be considered apart of the horror genre.Savagezion said:
So what I'm saying (and what you might be saying) is that anime can not be compared like that. You can say "I like Live Action Movies, but I don't like anime" (2 different styles) and "I like Horror, but I don't like Action movies" (2 different genres), but to say "I like horror, but I don't like anime [as a whole]" (comparing a genre to a style) doesn't make sense. That'd be like comparing an apple to all fruits from a Japanese grocery. You'd have to say something like "I like horror, but not horror anime." (So like comparing apples from other groceries to apples from a Japanese grocery)
Yes there are cliches that are common in anime, but that doesn't mean every anime requires them and some don't use anything you'd expect at all (I can hardly remember the last time I've seen a "Tear" in anime).
Racism is a strong word to be throwing around there buddy.Paya Chin said:
I already admitted I was wrong, back in the last page I think.
Anime is awesome. It's 50 times as funny as the funniest western TV shows. How I Met Your Mother, Psych, Family Guy, The Simpsons etc. are downright boring compared to a lot of the anime shows I've seen. We're not even going to talk about South Park.
Drakengard is a Japanese rpg... it's an action rpg and it's really darkFieldy409 said:
Incest, pedophilia, murder, the main character is a sociopath who goes insane, you ride dragons and blow stuff up
The main character is a prince who witnessed his own parents being murdered by a dragon and then has to team up with one... it's awesome... I've only talked about the first chapter of the game too ^_^
although they removed most of the pedophilia in the English version I think it's still hinted at.
I don't like anime or manga, so I don't like games that remind me of it. Bear in mind, I will still play a game that has that art style, but right out of the gate it has a pretty big hurdle to overcome.