DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[YodaUnleashed]

There's nothing wrong with being attractive or indeed portraying your female character as attractive, but when that's her only defining feature you haven't created a very compelling or sophisticated character, she's merely eye candy.

You see, this is a problem I have with these arguements: it applied, applies and will always apply to both genders.
When you have completely uninteresting in all regards male protagonist - people go "meh, this game sucks - the characters are dull".
When you have smoking hot - but completely uninteresting in all other regards - female character (God forbid - a protagonist) - you hear "sexist!"

No, you are wrong! The correct answer should be - AGAIN - "meh, this game sucks - the characters are dull"

You have armies of video-game unsavvy feminists fighting with basement dwelling neckbeards over why making a brain-dead / smoking hot female character is sexist. Or alternatively over why not having a multi-layered ethnic character is racist. Words like "white male privilege" are thrown over.

And than, in the dark and damp corner. Completely alone. You have brave guys like Extra Credits crew, who say "Maybe video-game industry should concentrate on making better characters. Like characters of ANY race or gender. Because actually, the ones we have right now very often suck. Please? Pretty please?"

Video games companies actually listen to the noise that the gamosphere produces. And results of the outcry like this one would not be better characters - they would be asexual female characters. But just as braindead as they are now.

I don't really see how what I said conflicts with what you're saying. I never went into the whys and wherefores of sexism against either genders in video games, I just pointed out that a female character with no defining features other than her looks is merely eye candy (as the portrayal of females was the topic of discussion). That could be sexist but so could very well a highly machismo male character such as that of Duke Nukem. The difference, as you allude to, is that sexism against males isn't highlighted nearly as much as sexism against females in not just video games but the wider media and entertainment based worlds in general. In fact I'd go further and say the very word 'sexism' and all it denotes is clearly most strongly associated with sexism against females and the feminist movement. That's probably for a multitude of historical and cultural reasons but the fact is how we portray females in various outlets is given far more attention than how we portray males. Maybe that's just because we males are just less sensitive about our image than the fairer sex oh wait that's probably sexist, naughty me.....

I do agree, better characters all round regardless of sex, race or even religion should be the focus, but I still think this developer fella should'?t be dragging his culture down with him as a defence for what is undeniably a poor and holistically lacking portrayal of a female character.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Actually can I ask why this is a problem at all? So there are some games where women are fetishised and oversexualised and reduced to cliches and stereotypes and as are male characters but what is the problem? I guess this is what I don't understand, do women believe that men will use this as a meter upon which all women will be judged or what? I'd be glad if an offeneded women could clarify about what exactly offends them about characters such as the DOA women in games.

It's bound to have some sort of normalizing effect. Anything which presents a distorted idea of reality a truth is going to shift peoples perception of the world, ever so slightly. In the grand scale of things, is DoA going to do that? I'd say negligibly, (compare it to say, the trend of having 25 year olds play teenagers in every american TV show, now THATS gonna mess with your head) but at the same time it'll create a hostile environment for women gamers, which is a dick move.

 

[excalipoor]

Like Team Sexism over there.

Alright, the quote in the article is pretty flammable. I'll give you that. Basically them saying that they like tits, deal with it. But name me one modern fighter that doesn't use jiggle physics. They're goddamn everywhere, so why is Team Ninja somehow eviler-er-er than the rest?

Have you even seen shots of DoA5? You talk about breasts bigger than characters' heads... They're not there. All the characters in DoA5 are realistically proportioned (females at least...). Not average by any means, but within reason.

Spoiler: By the way, this is what a DoA4 match between me and my buddy looks like

Nicole on the left, Ryu Hayabusa on the right. He mains Ryu because he's a fucking scrub.

 

[Spirit356]

Actually can I ask why this is a problem at all? So there are some games where women are fetishised and oversexualised and reduced to cliches and stereotypes and as are male characters but what is the problem? I guess this is what I don't understand, do women believe that men will use this as a meter upon which all women will be judged or what? I'd be glad if an offeneded women could clarify about what exactly offends them about characters such as the DOA women in games.

It's bound to have some sort of normalizing effect. Anything which presents a distorted idea of reality a truth is going to shift peoples perception of the world, ever so slightly. In the grand scale of things, is DoA going to do that? I'd say negligibly, (compare it to say, the trend of having 25 year olds play teenagers in every american TV show, now THATS gonna mess with your head) but at the same time it'll create a hostile environment for women gamers, which is a dick move.

Ok colour me confused once again but how exactly does a game with big breasted women create a hostile enviroment for female gamers? Does it create a slightly negative one? Maybe if the game ends up making you feel uncomfortable but there are many other games to play and really I think that a grown woman should be able to deal with the unusual/uncomfortable aesthetic of a video game. It's not like the game checks if your a woman using the kinect and starts shouting inflamatory statements at you, now that would be a hostile enviroment for female gamers.

Edit - Actually these common complaints just sound like some women dislike the common aesthetics of women in video games, such as them being too revealing and such, would this be accurate?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

It demeans and objectifies women for male tittilation. Women are actually people the same as men and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some female gamers from playing games that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

snip

I am a big fan of Korra and I always use the characters from A:TLA and LoK as good examples of female characters.

They prove that a woman can be an amazing character without having sexy as their main feature.

Funnily enough at this very moment I'm playing the Wall Market section of FF7 where you have to dress Cloud up as a woman to get into a whorehouse. (While Dark Souls PC downloads on Steam) The whole section makes fun of this 'Japanese sexism culture'

Just thought that was a funny coincidence.

 

[felbot]

another gender war, another thread repeating 400 other posts, when will it end?.

on topic, its just some fanservice in one game series, if they honestly want to have their cheesecake there then so be it.

 

[excalipoor]

Now people are claiming DoA 5 is not the booby-loving sim it is? Madness!

So you're saying you've never played DoA either? Do I get to go google images of Miranda and call ME an ass-loving sim? Or *gasp* a lesbian alien sex simulator?!

Yeah, that's a pre-order bonus or something. You can get swimsuits for the Tekken cast too. Your point?

 

[Sejborg]

snip

What if we just want to enjoy the gameplay without having to suffer pandering 24/7 I mean, even the games I mentioned as being a bit more female friendly have Asari, Miranda's bum, Isabella, Serena the horny vampire, Aela etc etc.

You simply can't get away from it. Unless I just play indie platformers for the rest of my days.

Mirandas butt is not all that if you ask me. Liara's and Tali's are alot better, but sadly Liara's is hidden by her outfit in Mass Effect 3.

But those "more female friendly" games also have: Jakob, Alistair, Anders and I haven't played Skyrim yet, so I don't know about that one.

 

[PoweD]

snip

It demeans and objectifies women for male tittilation. Women are actually people the same as men and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some female gamers from playing games that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

If you honestly think DoA will make people think women are objects, then there's no helping you.
It's the same argument like saying that Call of Duty makes people think regenerating health happens in real life.

Even then, so?
As pointed out before, men are sexualized too in movies like Twilight, and won't stop no matter how hard people try.

If it was like you describe it to be, no women would be reading magazines, right?
Because obliviously there's tons of soft porn in the medium, Playboy, Penthouse, etc. and yet, there are still female magazines and readers.
Just because there's one game that is centered about one demographic doesn't mean that the other one should be excluded from the whole industry.

Vote with your wallet is the simple lesson here, why would a publisher create a game that didn't even sell very well?

 

[Calibanbutcher]

*facepalm*
Look, Team Ninja, it's okay to like tits. Everybody like boobies. They're fun to look at, fun to play with and fun to smoosh your face in and go HUBBALUBBALUBBALUBBA. Now I personally prefer them in a more manageable size (read: not so big that they create their own laws of physics) but as a whole, I like boobs. There's nothing wrong in admitting to that. Frankly, if you'd said that you like jubblies and love making up weird jigglies for them, I would've applauded you for staying true to your own style where even the word "girlfriend" in videogame development leads to a ridiculous shitstorm.
But for fuck's sake... trying to justify sexualization as part of Japanese culture? This is insulting to both you and the culture you claim to defend. Saying "guys, I like dem titties and Imma make a game with copious amounts of huge titties because I like dem titties" is a-ok. Claiming that this is some sort of cultural service to your country is cowardly beyond words.

Seriously, who the fuck keeps giving game developer a microphone? Haven't we learned by now that they're apparently to dumb to brain beyond creating videogames?

I simply quote this because it literally made me laugh out loud, thank you for that sir/mam, you get my internetz for today.

And I agree, Team Ninja should just go ahead and be completely open.
I can see the press release now:
"We at Team Ninja have decided to finally come forth on a matter that has riled humanity as a whole and nearly started World War V, a War so badass that it would have skipped right over III and IV. Our stance on the breasts of our female characters. Earlier, we claimed, that these breasts were designed to appeal to a mature gamer audience that appreciates the shape of the female body in a classy, artsy way. We also made the claim, that these designs sprang from roots deeply engrained in our culture. However, these statements were not completely accurate.
The honest truth is: We like boobies. Milkbags, Melons, Knockers, Mammaries, Assets, Bazookas, whatever you want to call them, we like them. And I personally appreciate breasts in all sizes and shapes, but our lead designer has a thing for gargantuan jigglypuffs which is why he decided to make every jellybonker of such huge proportions, that, by right, they should have their own gravitational pull, and, in fact, if you manage to get an apple into the game and throw it at a female characters bristols, it will orbit around them.
Again, I am not opposed to having smaller breasts in games, but we wanted to see how far we could push it before everyone would cry out against us. We coded parts of the game so that every chesticle would be individually moved by it's own physics engine and we enjoyed that, not because these bouncing bazongas aroused us, but because it gave us a sense of boyish glee to push the envelope of kahunas in games even further.
In short, we did it, because we, at Team Ninja, fully subscribe to the notion of liking sweater puppies and we shall not apologize for that.
We are deeply sorry however, about the civil wars we caused in some parts of the world, where gamers and non-gamers alike took to weapons over this issue. Tis tragic, that something as beatuiful and wondrous as female breasts would incite such violence. Our hearts are with the families of the fallen.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go, I am in dire need of a good HUBBALUBBALUBBA.

 

[Imthatguy]

Ever notice how Jiggle Physics happen in real life? Its awesome.. If a little creepy when they take it to such extents as DOA...

 

[likalaruku]

It's only a matter of time before Western developers take on Jigglybutt Physics.

 

[excalipoor]

It's only a matter of time before Western developers take on Jigglybutt Physics.

Is that a pokémon?

Either way, it's too late. Neverwinter Nights had that ten years ago.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

>Implies breasts larger than your head look attractive.

lolwut

We can't help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it's a bad representation. Within our nationality and within our national borders, we obviously have morals that we create our female characters from, but within our Japanese sensibilities, we've made those characters the way they are and we're not going to stop doing that."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5531-Twisted-Metal

"Oh, well, that's all right then, as long as you're preserving horrible ideas in the name of tradition. What's good enough for the Catholic church is good enough for you."

Spot on, Yhatzee! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd go further and remind people, including the dev, how recently there was an issue with age of consent and child porn in Japan.

I would agree, the child porn thing is...disturbing to say the least, but as an unusual part, pedophilia is far lower in japan than other first world countries. Makes me wonder if they have got something right there, but still, makes me nervous to think that.

 

[SidheKnight]

It demeans and objectifies women for male tittilation. Women are actually people the same as men and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some female gamers from playing games that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

Let me do a little experiment:

[Thrashy Romance Novels, 50 Shades of Grey, Twilight, Yaoi, Fabio, Magic Mike, etc.. ] demean and objectify men for female tittilation. Men are actually people the same as Women and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some male readers from reading books that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

My point is, DoA is masturbatory fantasy for men. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

The same way there's nothing wrong with all the girl stuff I mentioned above.

This game is not for you, you are not supposed to like it.

NOW, I do agree that when only one demographic is being catered to at the expense of any other (in gaming's case: white young males, mostly americans or japanese).

BUT, trying to demand that we make DoA more inclusive by catering to a broader audience instead of just it's current target demographic is NOT the way to do it.

It's like I demanded Stephanie Meyer to include more badass action scenes in her next book and tune down the crappy romance because only girls care about that... The book's not for me and I get it, I'm not offended, I'm gonna read something else.

If there wasn't many alternatives (a current problem in gaming sadly) I'd try to push for the creation of more franchises that appeal to me (and my target demographic) instead of trying to change a specific work of art with a very specific niche to cater to everybody and be more politically correct and diverse. That'd be like trying to make the Watchmen movie "family friendly".

I'm not blind to reality, I see that only guys are being catered to in modern gaming, and that's BAD and WRONG, but that doesn't mean we should change EVERY work of art to be ultra-inclusive for everyone. We must create more games that everybody can appreciate. Or even some games that only women can appreciate, why not? I have nothing against male eye-candy for women.

Sorry for the long post. I look foward for your answer.