DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Xangba]

Good god who cares? It's a game. That's their focus on the game? Okay have fun. They can make what they want to. It's really tiring to see everybody offended by everything now. Why does every game have to be "mature" now? I don't even like DoA but why should I cry out in rage over this? But hey, everyone loves to get up on their high horse and tell everyone how wrong they are and that everything should be according to them.

Also anyone understand why games get so much more flak for sexualization than movies?

 

[TJC]

*facepalm*
Look, Team Ninja, it's okay to like tits. Everybody like boobies. They're fun to look at, fun to play with and fun to smoosh your face in and go HUBBALUBBALUBBALUBBA. Now I personally prefer them in a more manageable size (read: not so big that they create their own laws of physics) but as a whole, I like boobs. There's nothing wrong in admitting to that. Frankly, if you'd said that you like jubblies and love making up weird jigglies for them, I would've applauded you for staying true to your own style where even the word "girlfriend" in videogame development leads to a ridiculous shitstorm.
But for fuck's sake... trying to justify sexualization as part of Japanese culture? This is insulting to both you and the culture you claim to defend. Saying "guys, I like dem titties and Imma make a game with copious amounts of huge titties because I like dem titties" is a-ok. Claiming that this is some sort of cultural service to your country is cowardly beyond words.

Seriously, who the fuck keeps giving game developer a microphone? Haven't we learned by now that they're apparently to dumb to brain beyond creating videogames?

I simply quote this because it literally made me laugh out loud, thank you for that sir/mam, you get my internetz for today.

And I agree, Team Ninja should just go ahead and be completely open.
I can see the press release now:
"We at Team Ninja have decided to finally come forth on a matter that has riled humanity as a whole and nearly started World War V, a War so badass that it would have skipped right over III and IV. Our stance on the breasts of our female characters. Earlier, we claimed, that these breasts were designed to appeal to a mature gamer audience that appreciates the shape of the female body in a classy, artsy way. We also made the claim, that these designs sprang from roots deeply engrained in our culture. However, these statements were not completely accurate.
The honest truth is: We like boobies. Milkbags, Melons, Knockers, Mammaries, Assets, Bazookas, whatever you want to call them, we like them. And I personally appreciate breasts in all sizes and shapes, but our lead designer has a thing for gargantuan jigglypuffs which is why he decided to make every jellybonker of such huge proportions, that, by right, they should have their own gravitational pull, and, in fact, if you manage to get an apple into the game and throw it at a female characters bristols, it will orbit around them.
Again, I am not opposed to having smaller breasts in games, but we wanted to see how far we could push it before everyone would cry out against us. We coded parts of the game so that every chesticle would be individually moved by it's own physics engine and we enjoyed that, not because these bouncing bazongas aroused us, but because it gave us a sense of boyish glee to push the envelope of kahunas in games even further.
In short, we did it, because we, at Team Ninja, fully subscribe to the notion of liking sweater puppies and we shall not apologize for that.
We are deeply sorry however, about the civil wars we caused in some parts of the world, where gamers and non-gamers alike took to weapons over this issue. Tis tragic, that something as beatuiful and wondrous as female breasts would incite such violence. Our hearts are with the families of the fallen.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go, I am in dire need of a good HUBBALUBBALUBBA.

Make sweet, sweet love to me, you beautiful person, you. XDDD

 

[Mirroga]

Here's my opinion. Talking or debating about this is just as useless or as funny as debating that porn and breast implants are sexist.

 

[NoeL]

It demeans and objectifies women for male tittilation. Women are actually people the same as men and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some female gamers from playing games that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

Let me do a little experiment:

[Thrashy Romance Novels, 50 Shades of Grey, Twilight, Yaoi, Fabio, Magic Mike, etc.. ] demean and objectify men for female tittilation. Men are actually people the same as Women and it's offensive for them to be portrayed as nothing but eye candy all the time. It also acts as an exclusionary measure keeping some male readers from reading books that they would have otherwise enjoyed.

My point is, DoA is masturbatory fantasy for men. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

The same way there's nothing wrong with all the girl stuff I mentioned above.

This game is not for you, you are not supposed to like it.

NOW, I do agree that when only one demographic is being catered to at the expense of any other (in gaming's case: white young males, mostly americans or japanese).

BUT, trying to demand that we make DoA more inclusive by catering to a broader audience instead of just it's current target demographic is NOT the way to do it.

It's like I demanded Stephanie Meyer to include more badass action scenes in her next book and tune down the crappy romance because only girls care about that... The book's not for me and I get it, I'm not offended, I'm gonna read something else.

If there wasn't many alternatives (a current problem in gaming sadly) I'd try to push for the creation of more franchises that appeal to me (and my target demographic) instead of trying to change a specific work of art with a very specific niche to cater to everybody and be more politically correct and diverse. That'd be like trying to make the Watchmen movie "family friendly".

I'm not blind to reality, I see that only guys are being catered to in modern gaming, and that's BAD and WRONG, but that doesn't mean we should change EVERY work of art to be ultra-inclusive for everyone. We must create more games that everybody can appreciate. Or even some games that only women can appreciate, why not? I have nothing against male eye-candy for women.

Sorry for the long post. I look foward for your answer.

Finally someone with some common sense. Just because your target audience is horny male teenagers it doesn't mean your product is sexist. Objectification =/= sexism.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

... Yie Ar Kung Fu is NOT a "competitive 2-player fighting game". Two players do not, in fact, fight each other. They fight a computer and can alternate turns. It is not a true competitive fighting game because you have no human competition. Is it a good foundation for future fighting games? Oh, absolutely, but it is not a modern, traditional fighting game as we know it because it was impossible for there to be any sort of traditional human opponent to fight against, while Chun-li was the first selectable female fighter in a competitive fighting game.

Do I seriously need to give you a history lesson on that, or are you done going off on a tangent and ignoring the issue of why I used her in the first place?

None of which you specified during your initial self-righteous tantrum, which made you plain wrong. I wonder how many counterexamples it would take before you limited your "history" to "fighting games made by Capcom." Plus, she's a horrible example anyway since, as it's already been shown, she HAS been fanservice in the past, which actually defeats the point of why you used her in the first place.

You probably should have made sure you had your facts straight before you started throwing around snotty flames like.. what was it? "Teenage boys masturbating into their mom's panties?" You blew it.

... Yie Ar Kung Fu is NOT a "competitive 2-player fighting game". Two players do not, in fact, fight each other. They fight a computer and can alternate turns. It is not a true competitive fighting game because you have no human competition. Is it a good foundation for future fighting games? Oh, absolutely, but it is not a modern, traditional fighting game as we know it because it was impossible for there to be any sort of traditional human opponent to fight against, while Chun-li was the first selectable female fighter in a competitive fighting game.

Do I seriously need to give you a history lesson on that, or are you done going off on a tangent and ignoring the issue of why I used her in the first place?

None of which you specified during your initial self-righteous tantrum, which made you plain wrong. I wonder how many counterexamples it would take before you limited your "history" to "fighting games made by Capcom." Plus, she's a horrible example anyway since, as it's already been shown, she HAS been fanservice in the past, which actually defeats the point of why you used her in the first place.

You probably should have made sure you had your facts straight before you started throwing around snotty flames like.. what was it? "Teenage boys masturbating into their mom's panties?" You blew it.

Look mate, I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to ignore her point, or genuinely can't see it, but what she is saying is basically Chun-Li is 1)Chun-Li is rarely sexualized. Sure, she has that move, but it's pretty minor, ESPECIALLY when compared to the likes of the DOA series. 2)Chun-Li is treated with respect by the creators. They don't put her through degrading scenarios, don't put her in bikinis, or have her pole dancing for any ones pleasure.
While I'm at it, I'll add my own bit to it. She's a character, not a character model. She actually has a personality, she has a story, she has real interaction with the other characters. Capcom are far from saints, I personally think cammys outfit is quite a bit too much, but even she at least has personality. The DOA characters are all bland, interchangeable women who are in there literally just because of their bodies. Then you have the developers saying it's because of cultural reasons, they basically say "women are there to be looked at, nothing else", and there is a worrying amount of that in Japanese culture. This does not make it right, and when people do get offended by it, they are not just pissing and moaning, they are actually offended for a good reason.

As for my take on it, I say let them make it, I certainly won't buy it. I hope it gets a load of bad PR as more and more people take note of the glaring problems with it, and should the series fail, I won't shed a tear.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

>Implies breasts larger than your head look attractive.

lolwut

We can't help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it's a bad representation. Within our nationality and within our national borders, we obviously have morals that we create our female characters from, but within our Japanese sensibilities, we've made those characters the way they are and we're not going to stop doing that."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5531-Twisted-Metal

"Oh, well, that's all right then, as long as you're preserving horrible ideas in the name of tradition. What's good enough for the Catholic church is good enough for you."

Spot on, Yhatzee! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd go further and remind people, including the dev, how recently there was an issue with age of consent and child porn in Japan.

I would agree, the child porn thing is...disturbing to say the least, but as an unusual part, pedophilia is far lower in japan than other first world countries. Makes me wonder if they have got something right there, but still, makes me nervous to think that.

It's not lower. The rate of rape against women is "lower" in Japan, too. Know why? Women in Japan are much, much more inclined to simply put up with it and to not report crime. Compare a "Western" woman to that of an Asian and the differences are clear. The image of a submissive, quite, obedient Asian wife isn't a stereotype for no reason. Japan is one of the only developed nations in the world (the whole fucking world) that needs same-sex train carts to combat the rampart sexual assault and rape on their public transport system.

There's also the issue of what the Japanese consider child porn, with their age of consent laws being as about as effective and stable as wet spaghetti. Their "lolicon' fetish scene is abhorrent. It crosses the line between cute girls and harmless drawings and has become a very seedy, very pedophile drenched subculture.

Women in Japan are expected to put up with it and a lot of them do.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about the treatment of women, I feel it's wrong without a question of a doubt, you don't need to convince me on that.

I was simply talking about how I could remember a statistic that child rape rates were far lower in japan than in western cultures. I admit it's been quite a while since I've seen that, and I may be wrong, the statistic might be wrong. I was just thinking if it were true, they might have something right, as worrying as it might be. If you know I am wrong, then give me a link or something to some more current data, if I am wrong I will gladly be corrected.

 

[PunkRex]

I don't really see the problem here but maybe thats whats wrong in the first place... oh F that.

Look I don't wanna be the guy to just cast off an entire group of peoples oppinion but this really seems to be a silly little thing people are getting really mad about. Ive played one of the games a little... at a friends house... a long time ago, ANYWAY, its just a sort of idealised, fantasy (kind of dumb) ecchi comic. It happens in stuff like dateing sims (aimed at both males and females) all the time but DoA is the one that gets it because its the one everyone knows. Have a go at the females lack of character (which makes them boring as f*ck) as opposed to the inclusion of jiggle physics.

I know its kind of pointless to say but if a game where the males smouldered around acting all broody, half naked and even took part in scenes that implied homorotism then i'd see it for what it is, just abit of ecchi fun, maybe not aimed at me but just abit of self indulgence.

The offensive thing about this article seems to not be the silly, ecchi nature of the game itself but the idea that an entire nation of peoples have the same wants in women, a rather shallow, stupid one.

If you don't agree then I am really sorry, I just don't see the game itself as the problem.

 

[secretsantaone]

The DOA characters are all bland, interchangeable women who are in there literally just because of their bodies.

You're not kidding.

https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&tok=sHOuZom3Iw5FV2o4faE6AQ&cp=6&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=dead+or+alive&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enAU438AU438&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=1017&ion=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=RXk3UJrKBIObiQfS34CYDg

How that strikes anyone as a healthy game culture and attitude towards women is beyond me lol. They couldn't be any more objectified and reduced to sex toy if they tried. The women of DoA are nothing more than moving dolls for men to ogle.

So?

 

[KageRyuuUji]

Just my 2 cents, and primarily in response to one Damian Vedia McMahon from face book, seeing as I refuse to touch that "thing" with a twenty foot pole and someone else's arm to boot, but for those who say developers should avoid offensive material I say:

No? Why? Because then all you get is mass media cookie cutter bullshit because game developers are too worried about offending someone who probably wouldn't even buy their product in the first place even if it didn't offend them. Avoiding something is the same as trying to cover it up, to say it doesn't exist in our world when it obviously does. So, like it or hate it, more games need more discrimination, more controversy, more jiggle physics to remind us what being human truly is. Variation to the extreme, especially regarding what we with our "Western" and "Civilized" sensibilities find offensive.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Just my 2 cents, and primarily in response to one Damian Vedia McMahon from face book, seeing as I refuse to touch that "thing" with a twenty foot pole and someone else's arm to boot, but for those who say developers should avoid offensive material I say:

No? Why? Because then all you get is mass media cookie cutter bullshit because game developers are too worried about offending someone who probably wouldn't even buy their product in the first place even if it didn't offend them. Avoiding something is the same as trying to cover it up, to say it doesn't exist in our world when it obviously does. So, like it or hate it, more games need more discrimination, more controversy, more jiggle physics to remind us what being human truly is. Variation to the extreme, especially regarding what we with our "Western" and "Civilized" sensibilities find offensive.

I don't want to argue with you, because I think we are on very similar pages, I know how sexist japan is. My point which you took out was exclusively about child rape, not adult rape. And while I can't say with certainty, I would hope cases of child rape would be reported as often in japan as any other country, as the children haven't reached the age where these expectations are upon them.

 

[Spirit356]

The DOA characters are all bland, interchangeable women who are in there literally just because of their bodies.

You're not kidding.

https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&tok=sHOuZom3Iw5FV2o4faE6AQ&cp=6&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=dead+or+alive&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enAU438AU438&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=1017&ion=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=RXk3UJrKBIObiQfS34CYDg

How that strikes anyone as a healthy game culture and attitude towards women is beyond me lol. They couldn't be any more objectified and reduced to sex toy if they tried. The women of DoA are nothing more than moving dolls for men to ogle.

Well I'm going to call foul here, the game and the characters all do have their own plot which of course centers around the Dead or Alive tournament, it's even safe to say that throughout the games the female cast have generally beenthe main protagonists (Helena and Kasumi mostly). Just because when you search google for dead or alive you get a bunch of pictures of the girls in bikinis, mostly from the Xtreme Volleyball series does not mean that the characters in the entire franchise are 'there literally just because of their bodies'.

 

[targren]

Look mate, I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to ignore her point, or genuinely can't see it, but what she is saying is basically Chun-Li is 1)Chun-Li is rarely sexualized. Sure, she has that move, but it's pretty minor, ESPECIALLY when compared to the likes of the DOA series. 2)Chun-Li is treated with respect by the creators. They don't put her through degrading scenarios, don't put her in bikinis, or have her pole dancing for any ones pleasure.

Neither. I was pointing out her factual errors. The point was irrelevant to me once it was coupled with the frothing zealotry and bullying insults.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Look mate, I'm not sure if you're purposefully trying to ignore her point, or genuinely can't see it, but what she is saying is basically Chun-Li is 1)Chun-Li is rarely sexualized. Sure, she has that move, but it's pretty minor, ESPECIALLY when compared to the likes of the DOA series. 2)Chun-Li is treated with respect by the creators. They don't put her through degrading scenarios, don't put her in bikinis, or have her pole dancing for any ones pleasure.

Neither. I was pointing out her factual errors. The point was irrelevant to me once it was coupled with the frothing zealotry and bullying insults.

Be reasonable, you were purposefully being obtuse, you were ignoring her overall point to focus on the small details. She said Chun-Li was the first ever female fighter, you disagreed, and you did have evidence against it, fair enough, but that wasn't the point of her argument, and I think you knew that. It was a perfect case of it just being dragged down into the semantics.

 

[targren]

Be reasonable, you were purposefully being obtuse, you were ignoring her overall point to focus on the small details. She said Chun-Li was the first ever female fighter, you disagreed, and you did have evidence against it, fair enough, but that wasn't the point of her argument, and I think you knew that. It was a perfect case of it just being dragged down into the semantics.

I just SAID I was ignoring her point, and made it clear why. And there's a difference between semantics and facts. I didn't make any bones about the fact that my intention was to hobble her high horse, so what exactly are you trying to get at, here?

 

[Tony2077]

all this over bouncing melons in a video game what is this world coming to

 

[Spirit356]

The DOA characters are all bland, interchangeable women who are in there literally just because of their bodies.

You're not kidding.

https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&tok=sHOuZom3Iw5FV2o4faE6AQ&cp=6&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=dead+or+alive&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enAU438AU438&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=1017&ion=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=RXk3UJrKBIObiQfS34CYDg

How that strikes anyone as a healthy game culture and attitude towards women is beyond me lol. They couldn't be any more objectified and reduced to sex toy if they tried. The women of DoA are nothing more than moving dolls for men to ogle.

Well I'm going to call foul here, the game and the characters all do have their own plot which of course centers around the Dead or Alive tournament, it's even safe to say that throughout the games the female cast have generally beenthe main protagonists (Helena and Kasumi mostly). Just because when you search google for dead or alive you get a bunch of pictures of the girls in bikinis, mostly from the Xtreme Volleyball series does not mean that the characters in the entire franchise are 'there literally just because of their bodies'.

Story and motivation that goes beyond an excuse to get people into a fight? No. "This set of breasts and legs wants to fight because... she's employed by an evil group that wants to run the world. This set of breasts and legs wants to fight because... she's a good guy."

Also, being the lead in a story doesn't mean anything. "Here, boys, look at our protagonists legs and slutty outfit." Oh that's good. Thanks, developer.

Ok where to begin, I'll start off with arguably the two main characters, Kasumi and Helena. Kasumi was brought up by the Mugen Tenshi clan as the second born, she loves her brother Hayate and her best friend Ayane, this however goes south when Ayane finds out she is Kasumis half sister and pushes all of her resentment of the treatment by the clan (because of the circumstances of her birth) on Kasumi. However tradegy strikes and Hayate is left crippled making her the leader of the clan, a role she never asked for. Hayate then goes missing and Kasumi leaves the clan (effectively a death sentence) in order to find him while Ayane is sent to murder Kasumi for 'betraying' the clan. She joins the Dead or alive tournament in order to find Hayate as information points there.

Helena was the illegitimate child of Fame Douglas and his mistress, the head of DOATEC who run the DOA tournament. She has an opulent but normal upbringing until both her father and mother are assassinated (The assassin was actually aiming for Helena). Helena ends up growing up being manipulated by Victor Donovan (Antagonist and head of DOATEC) and enters the DOA tournament to try and find the assassin of her mother and to try and find out what is happening within DOATEC (A lot of bad experiments). She eventually becomes chairwomen of DOATEC and finds her mothers assassin in DOA4.

So yes it's up to you if you wish to ignore the plot of the games simply because the girls are skimpily dressed and have large breasts but I suggest that you should play them because they are a lot of fun.