DOTA2 or LoL?

[Tanakh]

Wait, maybe it's how you typed that, but I'm not getting what you're saying. Are you implying LoL is more "balanced"
because it has more heroes? Because, if you are, that's ludicrous.

No, a carry only becomes "op" if it's over-fed. And, this only happens if you have the combination of a decent player (as the carry) and a bad opposing team that fails to understand the principle of slowing an opposing carry.

Sven most certainly is OP in the tourney scene. He's a very strong pick, namely because of the buff Valve gave to his ultimate. (going from 200% to 300% at level 3) I've regularly seen Sven decimate opposing teams off of cleave damage alone, even while he's at an equivalent or lower level.

And last I looked, in some tourneys, Drow is out-right banned as it's almost impossible to push against her in any given lane. Namely due to the combination of her global aura and her ultimate; the latter of which grants an insane amount of bonus agility.

Again, I've had Drows in my matches hit 200+ agility before they pass level 16. That's ridiculous.

No, what i typed is that the difference between the hero that wins the most and the one that wins the least is greater than the difference between the champ that wins the most and the least. IE the variance of the sample of heroes in DotA is greater than the variance of the champs of LoL. That is the definition of imbalanced toon.

Also... man, Sven is a support in the pro scene... you know that right? Sven was a carry in EU and US DotA Oct-Nov, never in CN dota (the best dota) because he needs too much farm and after the nerfs is just weaker than a Tiny for example late game while doing almost exacly the same role; nowdays most of the Svens in tournaments are support over the world, seeing a carry sven in high levels is quite rare and his winrate is 0.459 in tournaments this year... not really the carry you want.

Finally, you couldn't have seen Drow banned because she is not in CM (the mode used in tournaments), and her global aura doesn't affect creeps far from her (that is it doesn't push the other lanes), only heroes. If she goes as she is to CM it will be interesting to see how it goes, chances are she is high valued because she is a good ricer carry even tough almost any carry with the same farm will kill her in the late game but mostly because she is AMAZING to ensure mid wins hard, pick a drow safelane then a TA or QoP maybe even SF and it will dominate.

 

[Dagda Mor]

I find that LoL is a lot friendlier to new players than DotA, plus it's free. If you find yourself really getting into it, you might want to try DotA, since that game is a lot more 'serious'.

 

[regalphantom]

I got DotA2 gifted to me over the christmas steam sale and I started with that. Its tough at first but you pick it up quickly. For your first game, I would suggest trying a single draft, as it makes choosing your hero a lot less overwhelming (in single draft, you have your choice of 1 hero from each of the 3 categories, Strength, Agility, and Intelligence). If you say that you are new and you don't know who to choose, the other players will generally point you in the right direction. After trying LoL, the big thing I found was that the community was... unpleasant... to say the least, and if you are new to MOBAs, DotA might be a more accepting starting ground.

 

[Uszi]

Annoying little FUCKING ghouls and their slows and shit. I don't even know what his abilities are exactly only that the little green slowing ghoul is a WHORE.

Believe it or not, this is literally the verbatim text tooltip for Omen of Pestilence.

Having played both, I answer you this way: Play both if you have the time.
They are similar enough that you don't have to relearn everything to try the other, but different that they give very different experiences. They are both free to play, so there's no cost involved in trying one or the other. Personally, if I was better at Dota 2, I would play LoL much less, because I enjoy Dota 2 more. On the other hand, though, when I'm in the mood for a couple relaxed games, I boot up LoL

This is the conclusion I have also come to.

They're different games that offer different things. I think I like one more than another, but other people have a different opinion, and in the end there's no reason to not play both, IMO.

 

[Triforceformer]

Personally I like LoL more. Dota2 just has a lot of frustrating mechanics in it and the much smaller amount of champions makes it get a lot more repetitive for me

LoL: 109 Champions and counting.
Dota 2: 96 Heroes with 15 still in development, 2 about to be released, which totals at 111.

More or less even, really.

If you're going to count champs in development, you should count them for LoL too, who has 8-10 champs in development at a given time, one of whom will be released soon, making their total at least 117.

OT: I prefer LoL personally, after having played both, but I would suggest you try them each out yourself. Currently, DOTA 2 costs money to get into, but I have several free copies if anyone wants one (just PM me). Here's Why:

DoTA 2 is still in beta, so it is hard to make true judgements on it until it is released. For example, right now all champs are available at the get go, but I feel that is only until they release it, since they need people to test the champs. However, there are mechanics they have that I don't like, for example, the multiple shops. There are two shops that they have, a "secret shop", which has some exclusive items, and a side shop and standard shop at your base, which has it's own exclusive items. I find it annoying to have to manage the two myself. On a more positive, related note, I do like the Courier and how you can purchase items in lane and have them shipped to you. I don't like how you have to run back to base if you need to recover. My biggest issue with DoTA currently though, is the gold loss on death. I currently feel DoTA games are determined way too often in the first 5 minutes of the game due to that simple mechanic, whereas in LoL, you can turn around a game you're losing in the mid or late game.

EDIT: Oh, another thing I don't like about DoTA is the mana pool, the resource available to most champs to use their abilities. It's just waaay too small. In both games, you can only use a few abilities in the early game before it's depleted, but in DoTA this is always the case, while in LoL, every champ will be able to use their abilities many times at the higher levels without needing extra mana or mana regeneration. Another thing I don't like about DoTA are the stats, there are only three: Strength, Agility, and Intellect. There are also three types of champs, one for each stat. Each of those champs should, for the most part, only build their respective stat since it gives them everything they could ever want.

No all the heroes are going to be free even on release.

http://www.dota2.com/spoilsofwar/

Near the bottom. As for the multiple shops, the Side Shop doesn't have any exclusive items it just has a selection of normal and Secret Shop items so that you can buy essential laning phase items without using the courier or going back to base. It's there for convenience is what I mean. As for running back to base, that's why you take plenty of regen items and don't play overly aggressive unless the lane setup permits. To say that a match is decided in the first five minutes is absurd; I have played plenty of games as the CARRY where I've had rough starts with a few deaths and not much free farm and still ended up winning. As for turnarounds:

https://dotabuff.com/matches/104286711

I was the Tinker in that match. Early to mid game was an absolute torture because of the Lion and Ancient Apparition. But Luna and I salvaged it late game with Luna farming like hell and me one-man split-pushing because that's what Tinker does. As for the mana pool comment, and I know this sounds douchey, that is exactly the thing an avid LoL player says because they are using LoL logic in a game that isn't LoL. In Dota 2, using your ability means you've analyzed the current situation, picked your target somewhat carefully and are expecting to have it followup with one of the following: Your combo, an ally's combo or enemy retreat so you can go about your business. You don't throw a spell out willy nilly and expect it to work (Mostly, some skill shots can be turn out ok with blind fire). Unless a hero is specifically designed to spam spells, you're not going to get anywhere by tossing everything at the first sign of threat.

Finally, the stats thing is kind of ehhhhh. I'm not sure how splitting the stats into less succinct categories would IMPROVE the meta. Sure you generally focus your build on the primary stat, but that doesn't mean every single hero of a certain attribute uses the exact same item build. It doesn't mean that every single item on every single hero would focus on that one stat. Just because Tinker and Invoker are intelligence heroes doesn't mean that an item build and playstyle that works for Tinker will work on an Invoker. If anything, Boots of Travel and Soul Ring on Invoker would probably make a few people yell at you.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Spoiler

EDIT: Oh, another thing I don't like about DoTA is the mana pool, the resource available to most champs to use their abilities. It's just waaay too small. In both games, you can only use a few abilities in the early game before it's depleted, but in DoTA this is always the case, while in LoL, every champ will be able to use their abilities many times at the higher levels without needing extra mana or mana regeneration.

Spell spam is one of the most noticeable differences between LoL and DotA. In DotA it's generally inadvisable to cast any spell before it's rank 2, so you normally don't cast a spell till you hit level 3 ---- with exceptions, of course. Rank 1 spells in DotA are a trade off where the damage they do for the mana they cost you is usually not worth it, but obviously can be worth it if you're in a situation where you get a kill.

But then again, that's DotA. It's all trade offs.

LoL, on the other hand, is all about spam. I think the difference gets really highlighted when you compare LoL characters that were clearly based on DotA characters, i.e. Blitzcrank [http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blitzcrank] and Pudge [http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Pudge].

Blitz Rocket Grab is 110 mana at all levels. Pudge Hook 110, goes up 10 each level.
Blitz starting mana is 260 (no runes). Pudge starting mana is 182.
Blitz gets 40 mana per level. Pudge gets 19.5 mana per level.
Blitz level 1 mana regen is 1.32/s. Pudge level 1 mana regen is 0.56/s.

And like, I said, without runes or masteries, and considering how awesome mana shield is on Blitz I normally stack mana on him (Manamume, frozen heart, etc).

It just translates into Blitz being able to Rocket Grab more often than Pudge, and missing an individual Rocket Grab is less painful to Blitz than it is to Pudge.

Uhm, not to say one is better than the other, personally. If you think casting abilities is fun and you want to do more of it, then stuff costs less mana and characters have more mana to work with in LoL, and abilities scale into late game with AP. If you like the trade off, then DotA is more fun.

in fairness to pudge while blitz can certainly spam more, pudges pull range is so far you can completely blindside your enemy where blitz its harder to do.

You forgot to add in that Hook has more utility, since he can use it to save allies.

 

[Aircross]

The thing I love about DotA/Dota 2 is all the crazy stunts you can pull off. I feel that LoL limits what the player can do, but that's just me.

Here's a small sample of the craziness you can see in Dota 2:

You forgot to add in that Hook has more utility, since he can use it to save allies.

Enjoy the Pudge clip.

Dota 2 is needlessly complex in some sort of attempt to appear more than it is.

LoL is fun.

Pick which you'd prefer.

What makes Dota 2 "needlessly complex?" Have you spent time playing Dota 2 to get to now the game really well? What if those "needlessly complex" mechanics have a deeper purpose, a purpose that one cannot see if they're only looking at the surface of the game?

Also, fun is subjective. You cannot blanket your definition of fun over everyone else's.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Enjoy the Pudge clip.

Huh, it didn't give me the quote notice, and I fucked up the spoilers, I'm doin good.

Well, for the sake of argument, there is the fact there's a handful of shops and they all have specific items, you have to remember to reselect your champ (doesn't seem like much, but if you're used to LoL, it's easy to forget) and the fact you're usually not too sure what exactly killed you and how. Along with a wonky ass jungle that's made with no rhyme or reason and the thousand or so little tricks the players don't think about, like being able to use that hatchet to chop paths through the jungle for escapes. All of this is from my tour through HoN, btw, so anything that doesn't quite add up is their fault.

Oh, then there's the fact that when someone leaves/gets kicked, someone else ends up controlling their hero too, and unless your an rts player, that get's really confusing. Actually, I take that back, it can get confusing for rts players who are rusty too.

 

[endtherapture]

Enjoy the Pudge clip.

Huh, it didn't give me the quote notice, and I fucked up the spoilers, I'm doin good.

Well, for the sake of argument, there is the fact there's a handful of shops and they all have specific items, you have to remember to reselect your champ (doesn't seem like much, but if you're used to LoL, it's easy to forget) and the fact you're usually not too sure what exactly killed you and how. Along with a wonky ass jungle that's made with no rhyme or reason and the thousand or so little tricks the players don't think about, like being able to use that hatchet to chop paths through the jungle for escapes. All of this is from my tour through HoN, btw, so anything that doesn't quite add up is their fault.

Oh, then there's the fact that when someone leaves/gets kicked, someone else ends up controlling their hero too, and unless your an rts player, that get's really confusing. Actually, I take that back, it can get confusing for rts players who are rusty too.

F1 selects champ F2 selects courier, there easy.

The different shops add an element of map control and risk. Battles around the secret shop are tense and important, and if you give up too much ground you can't farm your way out because going to the shop is a big risk to get those top-tier items you need.

Also if someone leaves the game it's not really worth controlling their hero because you can't access their gold and buy the required items.

Also another thing about Dota 2, there are loads of active items unlike in LoL which helps to add an extra element to gameplay, and itmes can cancel each other, eg. MKB counters Butterfly.

 

[Larcenist]

One thing I personally find better with LoL is that there are gold generating items that serve as bonus income for support players while they are winning the game for their team, making the AD carry big. This does come at the cost of not being able to stack jungle camps and pull creep waves, so this is a plus for DotA.

I feel that when IceFrog actually decides to make DotA 2 instead of DotA Allstars v2 the game will become a whole lot better as well. There is no reason at all to name your game DotA 2 if all you're doing is updating your WC3 map and then applying said updates to a game running on an engine with possibilities way above the ones used before. One thing S2 made right when they made HoN was that they used their engine instead of running the very same things as before (vector targeting for interesting abilities for example).

 

[The Wykydtron]

Jax can dive because lol Counterstrike

Uh, how old is your information on Jax? He hasn't been able to dodge tower hits with his counter strike for almost a year...

He could dodge tower hits? Well that's bullshit. I never said he could dodge tower hits but the fact is he gets 2 seconds of 100% dodge chance and a stun and if you attack during the dodge he gets more damage on the stun. Also Empower is this annoying good source of consistant high damage once he levels it up a bit.

To be honest I just hate Jax. Probably just because he's hard to deal with when I play Fiora or Irelia which are my only decent top characters. Irelia stands a chance but Fiora loses ALL her damage apart from countering an Empower.

 

[blazearmoru]

Ok, here's the thing about balance you have to understand. When LoL talks about balance, it's about how hard people can hit .
When DotA talks about balance, it's about how much you're capable of doing .

Because both games progress in a match, it's very likely even if there was balance in the beginning, it will become imbalanced through the progression of the match. In DotA, there is always multiple things you can do to try and come back from a bad position. In league of legends, there is the trusty surrender button. In DotA, no one told you that you have to fight the other team head on in order to win and so if you're in a position where you cannot win a head on clash, then choose a different option. In LoL, you can either surrender, or hope that your opponents do something stupid. Balance.

This will confuse you if you only think about mobas as a I'm going to fight you!!!!! type of game. That's what LoL is, DotA is far more deeper than seeing who hits harder. Just look at the posts talking about balance from a league of legends point of view, then look up one of the most banned heroes in DotA : Nature's Prophet.

 

[whitewolf35]

I always saw LoL as a very simplified version of Dota, however in that simplicity also makes the game easier to pick up and enjoy, assuming you ignore rude teammates. Dota is a bit more advanced for me but once you get controls sorted, you will love it.

 

[Tanakh]

Just look at the posts talking about balance from a league of legends point of view, then look up one of the most banned heroes in DotA : Nature's Prophet.

While I agree with you in general you must note:

- Non fighting strats usually fail in pubs (that is in almost every game you will play) because the team won't have the discipline to carry them out.

- Furion is not one of the top bans, has not been for a long time. He is a medium/low priority pick/ban that has a niche place in splitpush strats that are out of the metagame atm.

 

[Larcenist]

This will confuse you if you only think about mobas as a I'm going to fight you!!!!! type of game. That's what LoL is, DotA is far more deeper than seeing who hits harder. Just look at the posts talking about balance from a league of legends point of view, then look up one of the most banned heroes in DotA : Nature's Prophet.

Then let's instead do the very same for LoL, instead of slapping incorrect titles on the game:

First we have a very popular jungle/top lane pick: Shen. Shen doesn't excel at dealing damage, Shen stays far away from the action, pushing the lane on the other side. He does this while having his ulti ready to jump to his team's aid should a fight break out because, alot like Furion he can teleport, only he has to target allies.

Let's instead take the by far most banned/picked champion in the whole game (who has kept this position for no one knows how long): Ezreal. Ezreal is an AD carry, meaning someone who uses attack damage (autoattacks) to win fights. Ezreal doesn't deal nearly as much damage as other common AD carries, Ezreal is picked because of many reasons:
1) He has a blink ability, making him a very safe pick.
2) He has a global ultimate that can be used to take down massive creep waves in other lanes while playing the objective.
3) He has a team attack speed steroid.
4) He has an ability that is pretty much an auto attack with slightly more damage and longer range, making him a great poker as well as a decent kiter.

Ezreal is not picked because he "hits harder", Ezreal has something around an 80-90% pick/ban ratio because he has the utility to work well with practically anything.

Asking a question like "which game should I play" will get you nowhere, this thread will demonstrate perfectly how the communities from both games will say "our game is best, the other is shit". There are some who put out pros and cons for both the games since they have experience with both, others slap titles on the other game while saying their game of choice is the only possible option. Welcome to the MOBA community.

Edit:
The point I was making was: try both. Different personalities will enjoy different games. I would love to enjoy DotA 2 but at the moment I do not, and DotA 1 was the game I grew up playing.

 

[blazearmoru]

Ezreal is not picked because he "hits harder", Ezreal has something around an 80-90% pick/ban ratio because he has the utility to work well with practically anything.

Asking a question like "which game should I play" will get you nowhere

Tanks : stack survival
damage : stack damage
How is this not stack power? for the sake of a fight? :|
EZ is picked cus he can hit better, and can take more damage (by avoiding it) so he's basically someone who can fight from a distance and take massive punishments without dying. Sounds incredibly like I'M GOING TO FIGHT YOU!!!!!

I don't see anyone from LoL rushing blink dagger or force staff, mostly because AP/AD is the core mechanic of the game so the item can't even exist for LoL's intended mechanics. Shen's teleport is a shield used to aid and fight, to control small fights. He has a taunt, remember? He has a skill that lets all his allies lifesteal off the opponent. He has a shield that allows him to do his ki strike, which is damage and lifesteal. His purpose is to be there in a fight.

In contrast NP is mostly used to control the lanes and the map. He's pretty much the worst possible hero in a fight. Anyone who preps beforehand can get out of nature's CC, which doesn't stun or bind so the trapped hero can fight even if he chooses not to get out of it. Nature's ult hits creeps as well, making it a map control spell and not Zues/Karthus ult. Nature can summon creeps which hits less hard than a minion, with less survival as well.

But if you must know, I find the whole thing about LoL's design around timed killshots, many of which can be dodged through quick reactions to be unique and fuzes with the core element of the entirety of the game about setting up fights. It's a good mechanic but it's still fighting, head on, to show that you hit harder dps wise after damage reduction due to things like armor, and dodge.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Just look at the posts talking about balance from a league of legends point of view, then look up one of the most banned heroes in DotA : Nature's Prophet.

While I agree with you in general you must note:

- Non fighting strats usually fail in pubs (that is in almost every game you will play) because the team won't have the discipline to carry them out.

- Furion is not one of the top bans, has not been for a long time. He is a medium/low priority pick/ban that has a niche place in splitpush strats that are out of the metagame atm.

Then there's the fact that a lot of the banned champs in LoL are either supports or tanks. Why? Because CC is King in LoL.

And, for the record, if I could rush a staff that shoves people around, I would. Singed's one of my preferred champs, and displacement's just fun.

 

[blazearmoru]

Just look at the posts talking about balance from a league of legends point of view, then look up one of the most banned heroes in DotA : Nature's Prophet.

While I agree with you in general you must note:

- Non fighting strats usually fail in pubs (that is in almost every game you will play) because the team won't have the discipline to carry them out.

- Furion is not one of the top bans, has not been for a long time. He is a medium/low priority pick/ban that has a niche place in splitpush strats that are out of the metagame atm.

Then there's the fact that a lot of the banned champs in LoL are either supports or tanks. Why? Because CC is King in LoL.

And, for the record, if I could rush a staff that shoves people around, I would. Singed's one of my preferred champs, and displacement's just fun.

CC is required to lock people down so damage can be dealt to them. Most of Leagues champs require them to build survival, damage amp, CDR, or raw damage. In fact, often in a certain build order as well. That's what I'm calling grinding gold to buy power to win fights. As for NP, he got nerfed like 3 times, fell out of the instapick/ban a few months back, and he's still being picked often. :|

Singed and his poison huehuehue no?

@Tanakh. You'd be surprised. Though most non-fight strats fail, once you get into a high enough mmr to read which team is advantageous in fights during what times of the game, fighting strats quickly become obsolete. It's rare to look at the graph and see a 50/50 cut. If you hold the clash advantage and you want a clash, you'll often have to force one inside enemy territory where the advantage may not be enough.

 

[Larcenist]

Tanks : stack survival
damage : stack damage
How is this not stack power? for the sake of a fight? :|
EZ is picked cus he can hit better, and can take more damage (by avoiding it) so he's basically someone who can fight from a distance and take massive punishments without dying. Sounds incredibly like I'M GOING TO FIGHT YOU!!!!!

I don't see anyone from LoL rushing blink dagger or force staff, mostly because AP/AD is the core mechanic of the game so the item can't even exist for LoL's intended mechanics. Shen's teleport is a shield used to aid and fight, to control small fights. He has a taunt, remember? His purpose is to be there in a fight. Nature's is mostly used to control the lanes and the map. He's pretty much the worst possible hero in a fight.

But if you must know, I find the whole thing about LoL's design around timed killshots, many of which can be dodged through quick reactions to be unique and fuzes with the core element of the entirety of the game about setting up fights. It's a good mechanic but it's still fighting, head on, to show that you hit harder dps wise after damage reduction due to things like armor, and dodge.

While much of this was true it doesn't really work that way since the pre-season 3 patch a while ago. Currently split pushing and teleport strats are very very strong since they remade certain items. Nidalee is a ridicously solid pick as of now since she can pick up a quick Warmog and just stay in top lane forever without dying unless 3 enemies go for her, which leaves the rest of the map open for objectives to grab. The current paradigm shift is something of both a blessing and a curse, since AD carries can in the worst of cases be made rather redundant (or just go back to the Urgot pick) since it is now much more about simply enduring constant poke while waiting for a moment to strike the objective rather than going for one big team fight.

I dare not say anything about the DotA 2 meta since I have not played the game in any recent time to be able to have a viable opinion, but for the countless years I played the meta stayed roughly the same, only with the addition of new heroes that bring multiple dimensions of gameplay. I just feel that IceFrog should finalize DotA 1 so that he can actually make use of the new engine and make DotA 2 unique. Still, both games are amazing and you'll spend countless hours playing either one of them.

Edit:
Hopefully Riot is going in the right direction with items as well, giving more utility actives. They did finally include a toggle item as well as a few single target buff items (though these are just buffs, no dispositioning utility or similar to Force Staff). They should really trust the community just a little more than they do and include items that bring a new dimension to gameplay.

 

[JaceArveduin]

CC is required to lock people down so damage can be dealt to them. Most of Leagues champs require them to build survival, damage amp, CDR, or raw damage. In fact, often in a certain build order as well. That's what I'm calling grinding gold to buy power to win fights. He got nerfed like 3 times, fell out of the instapick/ban a few months back, and he's still being picked often. :|

Singed and his poison huehuehue no?

Oh I wasn't saying that you weren't damaging the other team or building for damage, but that most of the time CC is even more important than just raw damage. The only people that get away with just doing raw damage are either being protected, or hit hard enough they can kill their target and use whatever escape ability they have. And, for the record, you can use a split-push strat in league, you just have to build around it. Hell, way back when, the meta was heal/poke siege warfare.