Dragon Age 2 leaked

[znix]

The leak is on both 360 and PS3 and it has been confirmed working on both platforms. Some people try to spread misinformation though.

 

[Trolldor]

I find Notch's argument to be complete crap. If I steal a new 3D TV but watching it convinces 4 friends to by it it is still stealing.

He said piracy was fundamentally different as you never actually took the 3D TV, you just used a machine to make an exact copy of the TV. The developer may "lose a sale" but nothing was stolen, at most you could say that it infringed on the copyright of the TV design.

Except NO.

The game is data and code, not the box or the disk it comes on.
You are downloading that data and that code.

 

[Choppaduel]

I still think piracy boils down to "would you rather have everyone playing and many of them enjoying your creation, or would you rather have a comparatively small number of people playing your game with an even comparatively smaller number enjoying it?"

I don't think money should be an important factor in deciding your sales model. Notch wants as many people as possible to experience his creation, which just isn't going to happen in the $60 pay before you play it, no demo sales model of today.

 

[fallouthirteen]

You know, one simple thing can be said about piracy, it's bad. Because some people pirate games (even if they never planned on buying it or plan on buying it after pirating it), publishers overreact and make the game worse for people who actually follow the system and buy it legitimately. Do you think companies like wasting money on DRM, they only do it because they think/hope it'll buy a bit more time before something is pirated.

Use any argument you want for piracy, but you're just making things worse for that reason above.

 

[darth.pixie]

It leaked already? Honestly, either the people at dev teams hate security or are plain sloppy with it. Who the hell leaks these things?

They could have waited for a couple of days for it to get out at least.

Honesly, DA2 didn't need more advertising, piracy or not. Not with all the campaigns. And while Minecraft was a cheap, infinitely replayable game that anyone could buy, the same could not be said about Dragon Age. I only played it twice before having finished all the quests, adopted all the conversation options and exploring everything and DA2 doesn't sound too different. So I'm not sure it will be good advertisment.

The truth of the matter is that every console game gets leaked onto torrent sites AT LEAST a week before its true release date. Every. Single. One. It's just that most of the time, nobody reports on it.

I know this because I have a couple friends with modded Xbox 360s, and they've been enjoying early games for as far back as I can remember. One recently added a PS3 to his misdeeds. And yet somehow people are still under the false assumption that PCs are the primary platform for pirates. Sure, PCs get the occasional early leak, like what happened with Crysis 2, but it's not EVERY release. Far from it. My guess is that consoles will catch up even in total piracy numbers by next generation, if not towards the end of this one.

Oh I know that. And an Xbox can be hacked in 5 minutes so that's not a problem either. It's just that...both Crysis 2 and DA2 were under the EA wings, who then makes a fuss that PC pirates kill games. More people pirate on consoles and yet PC gamers still bear the stigma.

It's either a conspiracy or stupidity.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I find it funny that when something gets leaked, it usually goes on to make a shit ton of money. I could go into the specifics as to why piracy isn't a bad thing but people on this site don't want to listen as they are too busy shouting that piracy is the worse than devil worship.

I think my stance is pretty clear. I think people who pirate are thieves. I do not claim to know if, in general, the actual effect is bad (that is, a company lost sales that would have otherwise been made), neutral (that the entire population of people who pirated a game would have never bought it even were it not possible to steal for example) or good (that the free publicity of piracy might lead to new sales or that some pirates would, upon finding a quality title, go and purchase it when the otherwise might not have).

In short, I have seen no clear data that supports any claim as to the general effect of piracy but I am of the belief that if one is unwilling to spend money on goods or services they ought to just do without rather than resorting to theft regardless of the actual effect.

 

[Savagezion]

Or maybe just annoyed at the people who make things worse for the rest of us when publishers look at the insane amount of downloads they see for their games and have no idea what this is costing them, or what to do to protect their investments.

Just an afterthought on this quote here. That "damage" of making things worse is here to stay. Do you think that if an impossible yet highly annoying DRM came out tomorrow that stopped piracy came out tomorrow Prices would drop? How exactly is piracy making things worse? It is a scapegoat and the customer base is falling for it hook, line, and sinker. Tomorrow game companies could say "Sorry guys we have to raise the price of games 10 dollars because piracy is hitting us too hard" and the customer base will not see through the charade and start bitching about piracy. I mean their army of Lemmings (for lack of a better term)is getting powerful here. Just look at the used games arguments going on. They can damn near do anything they want and blame it on people pirating and buying used.

Yet they keep turning out shovelware games and turning a profit on them. Turning a profit on most AAA games. Every title isn't bringing in profit but it is enough for Activision to reject the anticipated Ghostbusters game because they couldn't milk it. But it is obvious that is a game that was waiting for release day to make a hefty profit one time if need be. They aid no to free money because it was only a one time deal and not something they could milk. Then with a title they can milk like Guitar Hero they screw it all up and instead of timing it right, they flood the market and pull the plug when Rock Band 3 came out and did better than Guitar Hero 5. Guitar Hero has relased 10 titles in the past few years. Rock Band has released 6. (Really only 4 if you don't count the LEGO crap and stuff). Oversaturation. They themselves are the reason they are losing money and having to shut down companies and crap. I am not going to believe that pirates are hurting the industry as much as they claim when they are out there making ridiculous decisions like this.

 

[Sarge034]

I find Notch's argument to be complete crap. If I steal a new 3D TV but watching it convinces 4 friends to by it it is still stealing. If you pirate a game it is the same thing.

Oh great, more childish arguments like this. He's written a length post discussing the economics and intrigue in the scenario and you basically 'lulz' it away with the same old tired "But if you stole a material good blah blah blah" argument. As always incorrectly trying to apply physical goods economics to a virtual good.

His argument is very simple:

Case 1: Person A Pirates game. Persons B,C,D buy game. Net gain: 3 sales
Case 2: Person A Doesn't Pirate game, and doesn't buy game. Net gain: 0 sales.

This is his point. And yes, He'd much rather person A bought the game, but he can't deny that the availability of the game via other means did end up turning better than zero profit. He's making an argument from an economic standpoint, not an ethical one.

This kind of analysis is about as reasonable as saying "Buying games when they are on sale is unethical, because you didn't pay full price!" The merchant knows they can get more total sales by having the sale. They might even give away free ones to build up hype.

Yes there is a difference of volition here, in one case the merchant is purposefully taking the per unit price hit for the overall gain, and in the other they aren't, but they do end up with similar results.

Please, if you want to discuss this, at least address the full issues at hand, and don't reply to thought out prose with the equivalent of a 'party line'.

I didn't realize the law was a party line..... Does that mean you would be ok if someone assualted you so person B, C, and D could have better lives?

If person A wants to pirate the game but is unable, person A buys the game. GASP then person B, C , and D see it and buy it. Net gain = 4

 

[Terminal Blue]

There's a pretty basic difference between Minecraft and Dragon Age 2.

Minecraft is a brand new IP developed independently by a handful of people on a shoestring budget.

Dragon Age 2 is a AAA title produced by an international studio employing hundreds of people (not to mention employing marketing consultancies, external studios and so forth which will also add up to hundreds of people) and shareholders, all of which (justifiably, in my opinion) expect to see some kind of return on their time and/or money.

In economic terms, this means that, for Minecraft, having anyone play their game and talk about it is good. Since knowledge about the game has spread largely by word of mouth (and forum activity, etc) then anything which increases the amount of discussion of the game is good. The game also cost very little to make and has pretty much come out of the blue as a breakaway hit, this means that the expected profits are already massive due to the extremely small development budget.

Dragon Age 2, on the other hand, has likely cost millions to make and market. It has been marketed to such an extent that if you're the kind of person who is likely to play it you already know it exists. You aren't going to turn around and buy it because you see one of your friends playing a pirated copy or because someone says something nice on a forum about the pirated copy they bought, you're going to buy it because you want to play it or otherwise. It has been extensively and professionally reviewed, has taken up reams of advertising space, has a pretty comprehensive and free demo, there is a whole prequel which is fairly indicative of what the game is going to be like. There really isn't any excuse on being undecided on whether or not to buy it.

Don't try to reclaim some moral high ground by whining about how people in the industry would want you to play their games even if they're pirated. Those people also want jobs, they also want the big budgets which will enable them to produce the high quality AAA titles which we all enjoy playing. There is room for Minecrafts and Dragon Age 2s on the market, but don't try to pretend the marketing model is in any way similar, or that because Mojang can afford to say it's okay to pirate their game then Bioware should do the same.

 

[Savagezion]

I find it funny that when something gets leaked, it usually goes on to make a shit ton of money. I could go into the specifics as to why piracy isn't a bad thing but people on this site don't want to listen as they are too busy shouting that piracy is the worse than devil worship.

I think my stance is pretty clear. I think people who pirate are thieves. I do not claim to know if, in general, the actual effect is bad (that is, a company lost sales that would have otherwise been made), neutral (that the entire population of people who pirated a game would have never bought it even were it not possible to steal for example) or good (that the free publicity of piracy might lead to new sales or that some pirates would, upon finding a quality title, go and purchase it when the otherwise might not have).

In short, I have seen no clear data that supports any claim as to the general effect of piracy but I am of the belief that if one is unwilling to spend money on goods or services they ought to just do without rather than resorting to theft regardless of the actual effect.

I pretty much agree with that stance honestly. Like I said, I am anti-piracy in my daily life. Shogun 2 is one I am just going to have to miss out on for a bit. I want it really bad and could pirate it but it just isn't in the cards and that is fine by me. There are a few games I am gonna have to miss out on when they come out this year because I have a long list. Hell, part of the fun for me this year is prioritizing which games I should get as opposed to which ones I should hold off on. Sometimes I am in a store and see a game I forgot about marked down and I love that. A pirate could never experience that.

I am not condoning taking a free game or justifying it all the way around. But I get tired of reading that piracy is going to cause a video game crash on this site. I have this discussion OFTEN with my cousin and he has some good points. Some damn good points. Some are sketchy at best but some are solid. I won't go into them here as his points would only stand to ruffle feathers for no good reason. But, yeah, I pretty much agree with what you are saying ironically enough.

 

[ImpofthePerverse]

I'm not really surprised that it's got leaked and is out there already, after all it just seems to be the standard procedure for big name titles these days.

Also I don't really care all that much as I'll be buying Dragon Age 2 regardless.

 

[SyphonX]

I'd like someone try to explain how piracy is going to hurt the sales of Dragon Age 2.

I'll be straight honest with you, if Dragon Age 2 was leaked sooner, maybe last week, and it was a retail copy, I would have pirated it and still kept my pre-order. For the simple fact that I could play it sooner.

I hope some people realize, that in some instances, companies outright support piracy of their game/movie at an early stage. Why? Because everyone knows that word-of-mouth advertising is the best advertising money can't buy. Doesn't help you if your game is shit though.

Dragon Age 2 will be a great sell, even it was "pirated" 2 months ago. Simply because it's a quality game and worthy of purchase. It hearkens back to the old RPGs, so it's something a lot of us simply 'must' own a hardcopy of.

 

[Snotnarok]

Oh I'm so getting it! ...Yep when it comes out, on disc...though I hear there's some crappy DRM on that version so perhaps I shall seek it out on Steam.

 

[chainguns]

Dragon Age 2 will be a great sell, even it was "pirated" 2 months ago. Simply because it's a quality game and worthy of purchase. It hearkens back to the old RPGs, so it's something a lot of us simply 'must' own a hardcopy of.

How can you be so sure - with Dragon Age 2, EA has basically ditched the "old" RPG crowd and started courting the Modern Warfare audience. This suggests the title is seriously running the risk of pleasing neither group.

I for one am a great fan of Origins, but don't think DA2 is even worth the torrent bandwidth. Horrible, hollowed out (12 hour main quest) dumbed down, arcade version for consoles of what was once a fantastic title. But don't take my word for it - speak to Brent Knowles, the lead designer for Origins and see if he thinks DA2 is great as you take for granted. His email is on his blog.