Dragon Age II and the decline of the classic RPG

[Gametek]

This thread is going into the wrong direction. First, DA is not the only recent "classic" RPG game. Witcher 2 have just come out, and as far as the point that I am on the game, it have completely overshadowed DA:O himself. It was good and sweet even the fact that w2 is better than w1, from the point where I'm, kicking Yhatzee theory of "sequel sucks" right back to him.

So please, let's quit talking about DA series? Da2 is something that I really hope to forget. It fill the whole first page. And the last is fill with old game title, that do nothing to support/disagree with the original thesis of the thread: Rpg game are getting worst with any title that come out.

 

[Nimcha]

Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.

Its what bioware should aspire too.

No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.

 

[kingcom]

Some games do suck now if you play it again. I for example was guilty of this. I use have the biggest hard on for Excite Bike. But having played it again on an emulator, i knew for sure it was just my nostalgia thinking it was the greatest game ever.

So Im willing to admit i fall for it. the question is, how many other ppl in these forums are willing to do the same?

Absolutely they do, I discovered that despite the poor start to Fallout 2, its the superior game to Fallout 1, that MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries was better than 2 that I prefer BF2142 over its 1942 conterpart, C&C3 over its predecessors. I know I now don't like Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale, NWN or the Ultima games.

What makes a game stand the test of time is for me to be able to play it from start to completion 10 years from now. Games like Baldur's Gate 1 + 2, Fallout 2, Deus Ex and so on. I have established my quality standards for what a game should be. It should make me care, it should make me question, it should make me contemplate my beliefs, ideology, perspective on human nature. It should teach me what it means to exist, to interact, to live. A great game should make me weep, should make me cry out in joy. Few games do that, and thats why I hold these few in such high standard. As do many others.

Thats a question its impossible to answer without knowing everyone personally though I chose to trust people to put their personal opinions into it. They took the time and effort to make a post, yea many are going to be trolling but I like to take truth and then have it falsified, not the other way around.

reasonable.

However, Bf2142 better than bf1942 is blasphemous! That sir i cannot agree.

Being a sci-fi fan, I easily prefer it, not to mentioned loved all the cool squad powers you could employ and a well operated and commanded team are some of the fondest memories I have of multiplayer gaming.

 

[GiantRaven]

Yes it can. The game contains "Warhammer 40,000" in its title. If I dont see the grim darkness of the far future, I can criticise its presentation of an existing setting.

Let's say, to pick an example of a game that people seem to love, Portal 2 was released with the title "Warhammer 40,000". Nothing else is changed. Just the name. Is it suddenly now a bad game?

In this case, DA 2 was an average game. It was okay. It was not 'great', it was not terrible. It was fairly middle ground.
Which is not good enough as a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins
It's not good enough coming from Bioware.

Putting forward actual valid criticisms of the game is alright. There's nothing wrong with disliking a game because you don't think it's particularly good, It's just that basing your opinions based on how it compares to other games in the series is straight up dumb.

 

[Hyper-space]

its the same reason why you find cars of all different shapes, sizes and utilities today instead of a single 1891 Panhard-Levassor type of vehicle.

"Jellybean autos"
Until you break into the realm of sports cars, most automobiles today have such similar bodies, it's hard to tell them apart.

OT: "Evolution" of RPGs? Pfft.
It's entirely too easy to forget what that "R" in "RPG" means. The "Roles" are so shallow in so many games today that they become meaningless.

No, the problem is that it takes entirely too much effort for a developer to deliver meaningful stories; so we end up with generic marketable slop instead. You tack on RPG elements to provide the illusion of choice, when in practice most of those choices are negligible (oh wow! I increased my Health by a whopping 3%!), or you tack them on so you can add grind to the multiplayer (so many shooters are adopting this now for some reason) to pad your playing numbers.

"Bold statements about an entire industry and genres, no argument to back it up"

Oh wow, as if that hasn't been said before. Tell me: what exactly makes the roles you play now more shallow? can you explain to me why ALL RPG stories are somehow generic marketable slop? everytime someone tries to make a story about something else than "save the world from the big evil baddie" (a la DA2), they get flamed up the a-hole about how theres "nothing" to drive the plot. And you are wrong about the choices, back in the days the choices you were faced with was just a matter of problems (one item was just plain better than the other, etc.) and now when games such as ME2 try to make them about ACTUAL choice (everything has a purpose, theres no weapon/item that is just plain better), everyone looses their SHIT.

So please, more substance, less empty statements.

 

[bootz]

Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.

Its what bioware should aspire too.

No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.

So they should just make more da2s? I don't know anyone that enjoyed that game

 

[RedDeadFred]

Even I am getting a bit tired of the Dragon Age 2 hate by this point, and I was on the hatewagon from the moment the dialogue wheel was announced.

I mean really, the game might have been a disappointment, but it's just one game - next to the dozen good games bioware has made. Everyone is entitled to atleast one mistake, no? Maybe we can just let this slide? It's not the end of the world, no matter what this article will try to tell you. Besides, with the harsh backlash DA2 has recieved from it's fanbase, I'm sure bioware has learned something from this experience. Like I always say - Everyone gets a second chance, Sarevok Bioware. Even you.

Well said. Bioware is a great developer. They will make up for DA2.

 

[Nimcha]

Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.

Its what bioware should aspire too.

No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.

So they should just make more da2s? I don't know anyone that enjoyed that game

Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.

Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.

 

[kingcom]

Yes it can. The game contains "Warhammer 40,000" in its title. If I dont see the grim darkness of the far future, I can criticise its presentation of an existing setting.

Let's say, to pick an example of a game that people seem to love, Portal 2 was released with the title "Warhammer 40,000". Nothing else is changed. Just the name. Is it suddenly now a bad game?

To me, absolutely, nothing in the slightest makes sense. Theres an AI system? Why are techpriests not trying to shut this thing down or vapourise it from orbit? We're on earth? Why has Chaos not completely overrun the galaxy with the Emperor now dead? Whats this gun im holding? Is this mechanicum sanctioned?

I am currently at a complete loss as to how to proceed, looking for a game in an extremely over the top universe im in some kind of puzzle solving game? My expectations do not match the reality, therfore the atmosphere is different, the characters are perceived differently, the internal logic of a setting is wrong and therfore im confused constantly and my desire based on purchase is pointing me to stop and do something else. I would see only a bad game.

 

[kingcom]

tbh this seems a bit a bizarre topic given the game releases lined up this year.

we have two genre shaking mmorpgs in the offing (GW2 & SWTOR), Skyrim, the Witcher 2 and Mass Effect 2 & 3 (well that one may be Q1 2012 now) and Diablo III

these are the games people are waiting on, ALL are GOTY candidates, and they are ALL RPGs of varying types.

Disagreements on both accounts.

 

[Nimcha]

My expectations do not match the reality,

And why is that the developer's fault? They're your expectations.

 

[bootz]

Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.

Its what bioware should aspire too.

No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.

So they should just make more da2s? I don't know anyone that enjoyed that game

Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.

Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.

So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?

 

[psicat]

Who cares? I loved Dragon Age: Origins for it's story, and I loved Dragon Age 2 for it's enjoyable game-play.

 

[kloiberin_time]

The author is wrong. Billie Piper has no faults.

 

[Nimcha]

Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.

Its what bioware should aspire too.

No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.

So they should just make more da2s? I don't know anyone that enjoyed that game

Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.

Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.

So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?

No, actually at this point you are saying that games you don't find fun are bad.

I don't need to point out how ridiculous that is.

 

[Canadish]

Yes it can. The game contains "Warhammer 40,000" in its title. If I dont see the grim darkness of the far future, I can criticise its presentation of an existing setting.

Let's say, to pick an example of a game that people seem to love, Portal 2 was released with the title "Warhammer 40,000". Nothing else is changed. Just the name. Is it suddenly now a bad game?

In this case, DA 2 was an average game. It was okay. It was not 'great', it was not terrible. It was fairly middle ground.
Which is not good enough as a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins
It's not good enough coming from Bioware.

Putting forward actual valid criticisms of the game is alright. There's nothing wrong with disliking a game because you don't think it's particularly good, It's just that basing your opinions based on how it compares to other games in the series is straight up dumb.

Okay, lets put this in simple language.
I go to the store and ask for an apple. Here is an apple:

The man who owns the shop asks me for my money first, then presents me with this:

Sure, its round.
Sure its sweet.
And its also juicy as well.
But its not an apple
I don't care if its a tasty orange, I didn't pay for an orange.

 

[GiantRaven]

I would see only a bad game.

Completely regardless of the game's gameplay? You know, the part that really matters (or, at the very least, matters more than the title of the game)?

I don't care if its a tasty orange, I didn't pay for an orange.

But that in itself does not mean that the orange is somehow 'bad'.

 

[Ascarus]

I hate the attitude of 'if this had a different title, I would feel differently about the game'. It's dumb. A good game is a good game.

but DA2 was not a good game, so i am confused by this statement.