Whilst I don't agree, I can see why people dislike Dragon Age 2 if they don't like the gameplay, story, etc. because those are actual criticisms of the game. If people are going to say that it's a good game but is bad because it's called 'Dragon Age 2'. Well that just doesn't make any sense.
Yes it can. The game contains "Warhammer 40,000" in its title. If I dont see the grim darkness of the far future, I can criticise its presentation of an existing setting.
Let's say, to pick an example of a game that people seem to love, Portal 2 was released with the title "Warhammer 40,000". Nothing else is changed. Just the name. Is it suddenly now a bad game?
Trolldor said:
In this case, DA 2 was an average game. It was okay. It was not 'great', it was not terrible. It was fairly middle ground.
Which is not good enough as a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins
It's not good enough coming from Bioware.
Putting forward actual valid criticisms of the game is alright. There's nothing wrong with disliking a game because you don't think it's particularly good, It's just that basing your opinions based on how it compares to other games in the series is straight up dumb.
Yes it can. The game contains "Warhammer 40,000" in its title. If I dont see the grim darkness of the far future, I can criticise its presentation of an existing setting.
Let's say, to pick an example of a game that people seem to love, Portal 2 was released with the title "Warhammer 40,000". Nothing else is changed. Just the name. Is it suddenly now a bad game?
Trolldor said:
In this case, DA 2 was an average game. It was okay. It was not 'great', it was not terrible. It was fairly middle ground.
Which is not good enough as a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins
It's not good enough coming from Bioware.
Putting forward actual valid criticisms of the game is alright. There's nothing wrong with disliking a game because you don't think it's particularly good, It's just that basing your opinions based on how it compares to other games in the series is straight up dumb.
Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.
No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.
Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.
Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.
So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?
I played as a mage and Never had mana issues because of the cooldowns. So I never put points in willpower and put it magic. My rain of fire spell one hit everything except bosses. I was on medium.
I married Merryl and at the end it said I was with isebelle.
The story was non existent. The combat was repeative. Go to the same location kill the same dudes. There werent even enemy healers or any priority targets.
The city was split into sections with loading in between. GTA VC has a city without load screens 10 years ago.
The characters were all bad stereotypes.
Try playing witcher 2 you will see what a Awesome rpg is.
Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.
No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.
Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.
Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.
So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?
I played as a mage and Never had mana issues because of the cooldowns. So I never put points in willpower and put it magic. My rain of fire spell one hit everything except bosses. I was on medium.
I married Merryl and at the end it said I was with isebelle.
The story was non existent. The combat was repeative. Go to the same location kill the same dudes. There werent even enemy healers or any priority targets.
The city was split into sections with loading in between. GTA VC has a city without load screens 10 years ago.
You know, I disagree with almost all of those (very badly worded) points. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Besides that none of this actually has anything to do whether the game is bad or not.
But I digress. Point is, again, you postulated that any game you don't enjoy is a bad game. Care to address that issue?
well good. i don't like convuluted inventory management simulations anyways.
plus, i hate "dice roll" games which everything is determined by chance unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
sure, after putting the effort into it i could breeze through dragon age, but the random passersby who just wants to play in a fantasy world and build up a character literally just turns off the game and won't play it.
is this what the "hardcore" rpg players want? games that can ONLY have niche appeal and thus will never make a return on investment so there will never be a sequel?
well i, for one, like when people make their games more accessible gameplay wise. it means i can enjoy it with family and friends and not have to worry about being that awkward lonely nerd who only plays niche games that no one has heard of, or plays, or likes because the barrier of entry is too damn high
Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.
No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.
Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.
Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.
So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?
I played as a mage and Never had mana issues because of the cooldowns. So I never put points in willpower and put it magic. My rain of fire spell one hit everything except bosses. I was on medium.
I married Merryl and at the end it said I was with isebelle.
The story was non existent. The combat was repeative. Go to the same location kill the same dudes. There werent even enemy healers or any priority targets.
The city was split into sections with loading in between. GTA VC has a city without load screens 10 years ago.
You know, I disagree with almost all of those (very badly worded) points. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Besides that none of this actually has anything to do whether the game is bad or not.
But I digress. Point is, again, you postulated that any game you don't enjoy is a bad game. Care to address that issue?
First attacking people for they spelling is low, not all are native English speaker.
Second bootz din't say that it was bad because he didn't enjoy it. He pointed out a lot of the games flaws, and yes plot holes in the thin story, repeative combat that are way to simple and bugs are some of the thing that makes a game bad.
well good. i don't like convuluted inventory management simulations anyways.
plus, i hate "dice roll" games which everything is determined by chance unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
sure, after putting the effort into it i could breeze through dragon age, but the random passersby who just wants to play in a fantasy world and build up a character literally just turns off the game and won't play it.
is this what the "hardcore" rpg players want? games that can ONLY have niche appeal and thus will never make a return on investment so there will never be a sequel?
well i, for one, like when people make their games more accessible gameplay wise. it means i can enjoy it with family and friends and not have to worry about being that awkward lonely nerd who only plays niche games that no one has heard of, or plays, or likes because the barrier of entry is too damn high
Yes, I would rather have a niche appeal game that I enjoy than a accessible one that is boring. Also if you want a game to be enjoy by the biggest number of people there are only FPS's, they are the one that sell the most so making anything that isn't a FPS is niche.
Take of the damn nostalgia glasses. Sitting with a calculator juggling stats is not enjoyable for most people. Is an ability more fun if it increases damage by 5%, or if it makes you leap across the room and hit someone, or helps you withdraw to range? Personally, I prefer Origins, but the sheer amount of hate for DA2 is absurd.
The point is, games evolve and then often recycle old ideas. To be honest with you, I sincerely think that "classic RPGs" will return one day. I'm actually gonna be trying Baldur's Gate II soon, as well as some of the old ice winddale games and the like. My hope is that one day we'll have a return of the Isometric RPG game design, where graphics are good but it's more about aesthetics, allowing a refined experience in a world full of unheard of awesomeness. Diablo III may spark this revolution to the old ways.
I think they will, just take a look at the indie market. More tools become available for them and I think a lof of those studios would love to make the sort of games the 'old school' rpg fans may enjoy. In my opinion, the indie market is going to be filling up these sort of niches in the near future.
Witcher 2 is saving the genre right now. It has an inventory , armor and weapon choices.
You can Explore it. It's not easy either. Your choices actually matter.
No. BioWare shouldn't aspire to copy anyone else. They make their games and lot of people enjoy them. They have their way of making games, that you don't like that way is completely irrelevant.
Try reading the thread. And hi! I enjoyed it despite its numerous problems.
Point is, just because they don't make the sort of game you enjoy doesn't make them a bad developer. Or that they should start making games catered to you.
So your saying they shouldn't make fun games for me to buy. That's how they make money. Thats the whole point of a developer. Your saying they should just make bad games?
I played as a mage and Never had mana issues because of the cooldowns. So I never put points in willpower and put it magic. My rain of fire spell one hit everything except bosses. I was on medium.
I married Merryl and at the end it said I was with isebelle.
The story was non existent. The combat was repeative. Go to the same location kill the same dudes. There werent even enemy healers or any priority targets.
The city was split into sections with loading in between. GTA VC has a city without load screens 10 years ago.
You know, I disagree with almost all of those (very badly worded) points. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Besides that none of this actually has anything to do whether the game is bad or not.
But I digress. Point is, again, you postulated that any game you don't enjoy is a bad game. Care to address that issue?
Those are ALL VALID POINTS why DA2 was a horrible game to him, and to myself. I did not enjoy the game, yet I spent hundred of hours in the first game, and will continue to do so for a little while.
The metacritic user reviews speak for themselves, a lot of people were dissapointed with this game, a lot of professional reviewers gave the game a high score yet never bothered to mention its many game breaking flaws.
Anders was my "bro", then he betrays me with his al-quaedaish (Grammar Nazi ... _|_) action. Now suddenly, I have to make a choice of keeping my friend or punching him in the mage-nuts. Guess what, he is the ONLY healer on the team, and I have to face a big bad, but extremely hot GILF Lord Commander of the commanders of Templars. Which choice do I take, when my healing potion takes forever to cool down, same for my skills where I am spending more time looking at my characters using their default attacks. Good times, really, an action game? It is not. It is a sub-par action game at best.
I could also go on about how the cast of characters were relatively awful, I mean a rogue who runs off when I might have needed her, a brotherly/sisterly companion that does the same half-way through the game, a hot cloud-wannabe who also happens to whine (or rage) as much as Shinji from Evangelion.
I also helped commit a little genocide on jailbait's village. Guess what? We acted like nothing happened when we returned to Kirkwall
I didn't enjoy the game, and yes, "I" matters, I am a consumer, and there's many like me. So are we irrelevant because we didn't enjoy the game, when we are actually 'fans' of the game?
I will probably buy DA3 to know where the story is going, but damn, I ain't going to sit there and ignore that BioWare wronged me as a consumer for selling a product that felt rushed, and lacking in many departments including storytelling. Sure, I loved the concept of being in the small clothes of Hawke, and living the hardest 7 years of his life exploring the same dungeons and mansions over and over again.
well good. i don't like convuluted inventory management simulations anyways.
plus, i hate "dice roll" games which everything is determined by chance unless you REALLY know what you're doing.
sure, after putting the effort into it i could breeze through dragon age, but the random passersby who just wants to play in a fantasy world and build up a character literally just turns off the game and won't play it.
is this what the "hardcore" rpg players want? games that can ONLY have niche appeal and thus will never make a return on investment so there will never be a sequel?
well i, for one, like when people make their games more accessible gameplay wise. it means i can enjoy it with family and friends and not have to worry about being that awkward lonely nerd who only plays niche games that no one has heard of, or plays, or likes because the barrier of entry is too damn high
Yes, I would rather have a niche appeal game that I enjoy than a accessible one that is boring. Also if you want a game to be enjoy by the biggest number of people there are only FPS's, they are the one that sell the most so making anything that isn't a FPS is niche.
Peggle isn't niche.
Rock Band isn't niche.
hell, even Castle Crashers breaks free of niche when you show it at a party.
Your generalization is a logical fallacy moreso than anything i've said. In any case, if the traditional RPG is declining, then the people have spoken, the majority does not want those kinds of games made. Of course we'll keep making the Cash-In of Duty's because that's what the people demand, and the games industry is not unlike what any other industry is... supply and demand.
It's a sad but true thing in our world, that supply and demand shall rule all industries that hope to be profitable, and whatever doesn't sell well won't get the time of day for a sequel or have one in development hell for loooong periods of time (Brutal Legend, Psychonauts, Beyond Good and Evil)
Besides, wouldn't you rather enjoy something with a group of friends than enjoy it alone? I quit dragon age and then picked it back up when my then-girlfriend now-fiance and her family started playing it out of nowhere. I like doing things i can share with others, growing up surrounded by siblings and their friends and my friends made me always crave the games that i could enjoy socially.
Of course i still can't stand most FPS games or any Cash-In game, but when it's made accessible enough that my friends, family, and loved ones can all enjoy it, that is superior to a game i play alone in my room.
So "oldschool/traditional RPG" basically means "what BioWare, Interplay and Black Isle did, ca. 1998 - 2005"? I'm old enough to be almost insulted by that, if it wasn't so ridiculous. I could easily say we're seeing a renaissance of the real oldschool, since DA2 is basically Pool of Radiance, Shining Force or Phantasy Star with real-time action, dialogue, and writing.
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