Drugs you think should be legalized?

[DoW Lowen]

In honor of my new epic avatar, I thought I'd make a thread that wasn't too serious for once. So what better way to relax than drugs?

First off, my position is before I launch into an explanation is that I fully support the legalization of marijuana and also heroin & ecstasy (I'm a bit gray on these two) and cocaine. However I despise people who depend on them. If you want a truly mind altering experience you need only look at the photographs from the Hubble Telescope [http://hubblesite.org/gallery/wallpaper/].

So legalizing drugs...

Spoiler: Pros of drug legalization

Pros
- Would do wonders for the economy, would create hundreds of thousands of jobs for all kinds of people ranging from farmer to corporate management (I can't remember the figures projected, but it was quite impressive)

- Reduction in drug related crimes. Less bloodshed over drug trafficking and drug gangs. Any one remember when the US banned alcohol during the 20's? Yeah...

- Safer drug production and better quality drugs. A lot of street drugs are of terrible quality. Some dealers put tiny shards of glass in ecstasy pills so they cut and puncture the insides of your body so you get high quicker and therefore much more prone to OD. In some heroin they mix it with cleaning chemicals so you get fucked up easier, it becomes more addictive and you come back to the dealer. A properly funded, controlled drug production would ensure safer products and quality control rather than hoping this particular dealer off the street didn't put rat poison in this cocaine.

- Better drug education. I recall a colleague of mine tell me of his friend who wanted to try heroin for the first time. They managed to get their hands on some but they weren't certain how to take it, somehow or another they fucked up and the guy ended up dying. Imagine if the schools responsibly taught him the effects of heroin and safe(r) ways of dealing with it. I remember when I was in school and they taught us all about cigarettes and alcohol and they taught us how to use it responsibly, the correct dosage to avoid any long term health issues and what to do in situations after you've taken it. As for the illegal drugs they just showed us a few pictures of fucked up people and told us to never touch the stuff.

- Better medical treatment. This goes for two things. First marijuana has medicinal purposes. Secondly an obscene amount of people die from OD because people don't want to take them to the emergency room because they don't want to be caught having done drugs.

- Drugs are fun. Well they are (in the right dosages). Even politicians admit they have smoked marijuana.

Spoiler: Cons of drug legalization

Cons
- More drug related deaths and addiction rates. This one is a given. There's always going to be a lot of people who have way more than they're suppose to.

- Difficulty in establishing limit per person in stores as well as laws. No one should be driving when they are high, imagine keeping track of that... geeze.

- Annoying conservatives bitching about declines of moral fiber in society. Don't act like you wouldn't get sick of them either.

- Corporate exploitation. I can't think of how right this moment, but given a small group of men power and somehow they'll fuck it up for the rest of us.

- Another reason to not do my work. Seriously.

So I'm a bit biased, so I'm not sure about more cons. So if you think of anymore or you don't think my pros are... pros - than feel free to comment. As for other questions -

Which drugs, if any, would you legalize? What is your vision of a society with drug legalization? Is your country talking about drug legality? Are you a country where certain outlawed drugs are legal? If so, tell us what that is like?

Spoiler: Responses to arguments within the thread

- The Gateway Theory
I find the the gateway theory of drugs is only ever as strong as the the broken window theory [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows]. It relies heavily on anecdotal evidence and it's relationship is one of correlation from a causality, a reasoning which is prone to fallacy.

- Drugs are too dangerous and are illegal for a reason
There are some great arguments throughout the thread. For my response to 'they're illegal for a reason' scroll down further to see what I have to say about fatty foods. As for the others, some people have posted really great empirical data concerning LSD and Cannabis.

 

[Dragon_of_red]

Yeah, so i dont really think they should legalise drugs.

Why i hear you ask?

I have no idea, but i dont really want to get high and ive heard its quite bad for your health.

 

[Cakekey]

Hm..I don;t really mind people who smoke pot, I just hate the people who are douches over it. The guys who walk around wearing Bob Marley shirts, constantly talk about it, y'know, the real potheads. My uncle, whom I respect very much, smokes it, but only to help himself relax, as he leads a stressful life. The kinda guys who do it just to fit some kind of societal mold, like skaters often do, need to die in a fire.

 

[Mr.Monkey]

I used to be a heavy cannabis user in my teenage years. I grew out of it, however in later life I was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. While rationally I don't think there is a direct correlation, there will always be an element of doubt in the back of my mind.

If cannabis was "standardised" as a product and pre-packed, then it could be effectively could be legalised. Tax could be placed similar to Alcohol and Tobacco and would be a boon to the economy and boost public spending.

I don't agree with usage of other drugs at all.
I could expand my points further, outlining infrastructure of distribution and sociological change. But I really need to have a shower and get changed at the moment.

 

[Prince Regent]

Some drugs should be legalized others shouldn't be. People tend to generalize drugs too much, but when you look at it rationally a lot of drugs are way less harmefull than alcohol and a lot of those drugs could easaly be legalized without causing major health risks. On the other hand some really mess up your mind and naturaly should stay illegal.

It's time the world learned about the differences between hard and soft drugs.

 

[DoW Lowen]

Some drugs should be legalized others shouldn't be. People tend to generalize drugs too much, but when you look at it rationally a lot of drugs are way less harmefull than alcohol and a lot of those drugs could easaly be legalized without causing major health risks. On the other hand some really mess up your mind and naturaly should stay illegal.

It's time the world learned about the differences between hard and soft drugs.

I agree, while I think marijuana is fine - the main bad marijuana is hydroponic, which is what causes the long term effects. If natural cannabis was legal, you wouldn't have to worry about pot being bad for you.

However for hard drugs such as crystal meth and base. I have no sympathy for those users. Those aren't even an escape or recreation. Their use is entirely sadistic and the experience of being under meth is miserable. It truly is a drug for the self-destructive. As for heroin I was a bit iffy, however I think in the long run for the reasons stated above it would be better.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Maybe pot, but things like hallucinogenic should not be legalized and if people should want to take pot then they must guarantee that it will not result in violence. It probally won't stop much but at least it's out their.

 

[SmartIdiot]

I'm in favour of drugs being legalized, however it would turn into yet another thing that would have ridiculous taxes slapped on it. Not only that but some users would get silly with them and end up taking them a lot more just because they could, resulting in exactly the kind of things they warn you about in school.

The pros, however, are that police resources can be spent on catching real, dangerous criminals and the quality of gear that drug users are buying would go up. People could trust that what they're getting is the real thing and not half of it cut with talcum powder/persil tablets etc. resulting in the opposite of what they warn you about in school.

Edit: OP: Those hubble pictures are amazing. Now just imagine looking at them under the influence of refcreational drugs. I've done this before, it's a good way to keep yourself amused for a couple of days.

 

[JonnoStrife]

Weed, yes, of course it should be. It's better for you than tobacco and it actually does something good for you.

Shit that involves needles? Fuck off no.

Pills.... Maybe. Probably leaning to no.

Even with regulations, there would still be a contingent operating outside of the law. This would be the easiest place for youths to acquire substance because I would imagine that they would put a age limit on it if you were to purchase it. Therefore if that was low level stuff then it could still be detrimental.

However, it would reduce the number of low end dealers and boost global economy.

tl;dr Weed is great. Pills and needles, not so much.

 

[joshuaayt]

Thunderbolt. Or, as it has been renamed and reshaped, 'Banshee'.
Except now it doesn't kill you in an hour.

 

[JonnoStrife]

Maybe pot, but things like hallucinogenic should not be legalized and if people should want to take pot then they must guarantee that it will not result in violence. It probally won't stop much but at least it's out their.

When was the last time you saw a guy who was baked rob a liquor store or hold up a bank or even get in a brawl?

When your stoned your lethargic in a great way. Not violent. If thats your bag, cocaine is that way.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I'm in that mentality that thinks you should have the option to do whatever you want with your body.

Of course, that doesn't mean I support drugs. Quite the opposite, I'm against most drugs. If you decide to get hooked on heroin, then that's your own fault and you are a dumbass.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

All of them, but only for one day a year.

 

[JonnoStrife]

I'm in that mentality that thinks you should have the option to do whatever you want with your body.

Of course, that doesn't mean I support drugs. Quite the opposite, I'm against most drugs. If you decide to get hooked on heroin, then that's your own fault and you are a dumbass.

Fight club reference as person title. Nice touch.

OT: Umm... Carry on.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Why not legalize cyanet! Much more efficient putting you out of your misery.

Now really, I am in favour people are free to choose as long as it doesnt affect other people. And drugs (with exception of nicotine and caffeine) reduce your judgement capability, make you more prone to act violently, not to mention that in many cases the addiction make people undertake a criminal carrier to pay their vice.

That doesnt mean either I agree with the current views over alcohol and tobacco, as both are legalized but are or can become very expensive depending how addict you are and there are many people out there undertaking a criminal carrier to pay for those two vices too (that does not not limit to pickpocketing, but also for example fail to pay their debts to buy another red bottle or another pack of cigarettes).

Oh, keep in mind also medication abuse.

I think the all society could use some education regarding drugs use and some serious and honest debate, without prejudice biasing involved (lol, who are u kidding vitor, our species will never be able to do that, you better just go throw yourself from a cliff)

I guess coffee and tea are the only safe drugs to take, boosts you to work and its good for your kidneys the amount of fluid you intake. Getting an overdose is very unlikely even if you could bare the taste to eat an entire pack. And by the time you would have gone half through you would be rushing to the toilet and stay there for the rest of the day.

 

[Veleste]

Look at all the lives that are ruined by alcohal and tobacco and those are legal, controlled drugs. Legalising drugs wont make anything better, it'll make things much worse.

I think all drugs should remain illegal, they are illegal for a reason and that reason is that they negatively affect your health. If they weren't bad for you they'd have never been made illegal in the first place. The argument 'taking them in moderation wont harm you' is a thin one as we are not a society of moderation. I think the day the human race can be responsible with alochal is the day it can be responsible with drugs but I wouldn't hold my breath for that day.


In response to your pros:
- Would do wonders for the economy "Yes, I can agree it would create jobs but how many people would die, get sick, get injured or lose their jobs in drug related incidents now that drugs have no social stigma? Think of how many lives alcohal ruins each year and now think of substances even more addictive being legal."


- Reduction in drug related crimes. "If you made theft legal I'm sure that theft related crimes would go down too. Gangs trafic drugs to make money, if the drugs don't get them the money they will just move onto something new and kill each other over that. Sex traficking and cigarette smuggling are the two largest problems in internation border control and yet cigarettes and prostitution are both legal (Well prostitution in some countries anyway)


- Safer drug production and better quality drugs. "Drugs, even in a safe form are not safe. Lets take cocaine as an example. "Cocaine increases alertness, feelings of well-being and euphoria, energy and motor activity, feelings of competence and sexuality." That sounds good right? Wait, what are the other side effects. "Athletic performance may be enhanced. Anxiety, paranoia and restlessness are also frequent. With excessive dosage, tremors, convulsions and increased body temperature are observed." Anxiety, paranoia and restlessness are very serious states of mind which can lead to extreme anti-social behaviour. It's not uncommon for guys to get wasted on alcohal and beat the tar out of each other but the doses of cocaine required to achieve the same level is much smaller and repeatedly ingesting cocaine can result in liver and kidney failure in a much shorter length of time than alcohal. That being said, we're still talking years."


- Better drug education. "We educate our kids about alcohal effects and tobacco effects as it is but people still get addicted, people still drink themselves stupid and smoke 20+ cigarettes a day. Thousands of lives a year are ruined or ended by alcohal and tobaco. Just look at your countries 'drink driving related deaths'. You can educate people all you want, they will still be stupid."


- Better medical treatment. "This is a point I can't really argue on convincingly because I believe that many illegal drugs do have pertinant medical applications however as I said earlier, people are stupid and you will only see an increase in drug related injuries causing our hospitals to be put under even more pressure."


- Drugs are fun. "I can think of about a hundred things I'd rather do than surrender control of my body to a foreign substance. Masturbation, for example. You can do it alone, doesn't cause any negative body functions, releases hormones which cause euphoria, builds muscles in the arm and imporves grip. No draw backs to masturbation, apart from cleaning up after."


Sorry for the long post

 

[holographicman]

Weed.
Legalize it.

Also, legalizing heroine and cocaine is a
FUCKING STUPID IDEA WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT IS A GOOD IDEA CUZ IT'S NOT!!!

 

[Dok Zombie]

I hate those people for whom smoking weed is a huge part of their personality, if you want to to do it, do it, but don't think you're making some kind of political statement by doing so.

OT: Don't legalise weed, it will become incredibly expensive because of tax and will be weak as fuck and include God knows what sort of chemical shit.

 

[Sjakie]

I hope they would still use LSD as a therapy drug but not really legalize it for recreational use.
I think LSD has the potential to really change you, combine a session of 6-10 hours on LSD with a Therapist and i think any disorders you had would be gone.

 

[DoW Lowen]

Sorry for the long post

It's okay, I don't mind long posts as long as they are saying something. I've seen dozens of posts rant on for half a page and they NEVER actually say anything that couldn't have been condensed in a single line. Seriously, not everyone wants to read your life story (not directed at you). Also I see that you're fairly new, so welcome. However I'm afraid I have to trump your point, what I say isn't personal - if you see me around the site I'm just naturally argumentative.

Look at all the lives that are ruined by alcohal and tobacco and those are legal, controlled drugs. Legalising drugs wont make anything better, it'll make things much worse.I think all drugs should remain illegal, they are illegal for a reason and that reason is that they negatively affect your health.

If they weren't bad for you they'd have never been made illegal in the first place. The argument 'taking them in moderation wont harm you' is a thin one as we are not a society of moderation. I think the day the human race can be responsible with alochal is the day it can be responsible with drugs but I wouldn't hold my breath for that day.

Cigarette related deaths kill more people a year than wars, cancer and terrorist attacks put together. The third highest being depression and the highest being heart disease from an unhealthy diet. The third has it's roots in biology and I won't get into that, so let's take a look at the number one killer in America today - being a fat c**t.

You see them around the street, giant blobs of protoplasm whose tits could sink a boat. Yet everyday doctors recommend healthy diets and plenty of exercise, fat free food has become tasty and some food with zero sugar is indistinguishable from the original, the media is blasting you images of muscular bodies as the ideal body, the only part of you they want big is your biceps and your dicks. And for women it's anti-food as the fashion models on magazines have pencil waists. The way it looks, society wants to be anti-fat. And then you walk down the street... and you see these horrendous blob people, men you look up and down at, side to side for miles on end wondering when was the last time he saw his balls without having to put a mirror on the fucking ground.

And yet... fatty food is legal. We tell people to eat in moderation don't we? We were educated on a healthy diet from a young age, Sesame street promoting carrots, Play school glorifying the wonders of counting celery - but America is a blob and a half. You want to outlaw something, go outlaw french fries. The argument 'they're illegal for a reason' is fallible and triple cheese and bacon burgers are testaments to that fatty fact.

Right now I have to take a shower. I will respond to your other questions shortly. In the words of Jesus Christ 'BRB'.