No half of those let you pick what the character is going to look like not what the character will be like. Including the ones that offer "morality choices". All of those main characters while not technically the "grunting space marine stereotype" fit MovieBob's description of the "hyper masculine stereotype" that is dominant in American gaming. In case you didn't notice: the "grunting marine stereotype" comes from American values that worship the hyper masculine. This includes those games you listed that let you play a woman as Female Shepherd really isn't a woman, just a man with boobs. And before you jump all over me for not being fair to women, remember this: I'm a girl.paragon1 said:Yeah nothing. Almost none of the main or supporting characters in those games fit his description of western game characters. Hell, half of those let YOU pick what the character will be like.nightwolf667 said:You know, there are Western video games out there that break MovieBob's stereotype. You haven't named one yet. Actually, you've proved his point.paragon1 said:If you think Gears of War and Halo are the only Western games out there Bob, then I think it's time you payed a visit to ANYWHERE THAT SELLS VIDEOGAMES. If you do, you'll see a wide range of titles with a wide range of characters in a wide range of genres that you appear to have missed.
Let me name a few that break your stereotype that are sitting on my shelf right now.
Brutal Legend
Mass Effect 1 and 2
Assassin's Creed II
Dragon Age
Uncharted 1 and 2
Bioshock
So...yeah.
So...yeah.
Now that we've mentioned Mass Effect 2, you also seem to have missed the part where the game is trying to be both Halo and Gears of War (at the same time while simultaneously failing at both) and is trying to draw in that same crowd of gamers who make the ultra masculine stereotype so popular. It's about what the characters do, what they say, and what they're trying to be. Besides, all that talk about you getting to decide your own path is just that, talk.
On a side note, the choices given to you in Mass Effect are themselves black and white that usually wind up in the land of Lawful Good and Chaotic Stupid, neither of which making much sense when compared more closely with the overall objective. It's a false sense of freedom to make you feel like your in control when in reality it's more like reading one of those old school Choose Your Own Adventure novels. You get to pick your path, but there's really only one right choice and the game itself will punish you for not playing it the way it thinks you should. Even worse than the Choose Your Own Adventure books, the choices you make in Mass Effect have no real direct effect on the plot. There are times when you make either a renegade choice or a paragon choice and receive the exact same dialogue from the characters around you or sometimes from Shepherd himself/herself. Whatever the choices you made in Mass Effect 1, the way they carry over is purely cosmetic offering you more game play and side quests than if you chose to ignore them entirely. It's there to promote the feeling that you are affecting this universe, while hiding from you the fact that nothing you do in this game really matters. The path is set. No matter what you do, did, or didn't do you'll still have to do point A to get to point B to get to point C and collect your plot coupons like a good little player. No matter whether or not you chose to save the Council, let them die, or replace them with a contingent of humans, they will still not believe you. You will still have to work with Cerberus to stop the Collectors and your choices will still only be that of the A) game decided morals of good or B) game decided ideals of a racist psychopath. Either way you will be violent. Therefore by all standards that matter, choice itself is irrelevant.
Back on topic.
Since you seem to believe that the stereotype is based on looks alone, here are a few examples for looks: the canon version of Shepherd in Mass Effect (the one who appears on the game box and the posters) is bald, muscular, and wears powered armor.
The protagonist from Brutal Legends also fits the image stereotype by being overly muscular, in a fashion that is very similar to that of Gears of War.
The protagonist of Uncharted and Uncharted 2 is toned down on the muscle side, but also has the same adventurer, tough guy look and the black hair.
The guy in Bioshock is basically a cardboard cutout with no personality, but Jack from his arms alone one can gather that Jack himself is athletic. Still, he's a blank slate that allows the player to ascribe their own (or whatever personality they want) to him, while still having him fit that same hyper masculine stereotype present in all the other games you've listed.
Dragon Age? My God, Dragon Age is a blatant LotR rip off (I'm honestly not joking far too many of the cut scenes are basically identical with scenes from the movies), which itself is a standard bearer for the hyper masculine stereotype. Also a book which came before the days when there either were space marines or space marines were popular. Now, I'm willing to admit that there's a lot more to LoTR than just that but there really isn't to Dragon Age, which managed to attach now outdated cultural values and stereotypes from the 1930s-40s into a modern day game while still failing to add anything that is unique or new.
The last is Assassin's Creed II which appears to still be fitting the stereotype, though I haven't played it yet, so I wouldn't know. The first one did though, so if it follows in the footsteps of its predecessor then it probably is.
The majority of western video games (or video games that don't come from Japan, those ascribe themselves to an entirely different set of stereotypes that they rarely veer away from), especially those video games made by or for American companies for an American audience support the American cultural ideal of what it is to be a man. It's that same hyper masculine stereotype present in the majority of action movies, novels, and TV shows. It has it's variations and some companies do a better job of hiding it than others. Due to their massive popularity Gears of War and Halo are the easiest to point to and say: look there it is, this is what American gaming is all about. It's a broad over generalization of a very large sub-genre, but it's one that's legitimate. There isn't a lot of variety in the character types of most mainstream video games (including ones from Japan, right now Metal Gear Solid's Solid Snake and the protagonists from Resident Evil are coming to mind).
Before jumping on the train to deny the stereotype, it's important to know what it is, what it looks like and the many varied forms it can take before decrying that it exists in your favorite games (given that your screen name is "paragon1", I'm going to make the assumption that you are a fan of Bioware's). This way, when you point to something and say that's not true, you can drag out examples that actually work like the GTA games which are parodies of American culture.
The problem becomes that with games that are popular, they often become that way because they are supporting a stereotype (or look like they are) which the varied factions of culture have been taught to accept. Then, other games come out trying to mimic those games to achieve the same level of success. Example: God of War. Kratos himself is a poster boy for the hyper masculine stereotype and is wildly popular. Plenty of people on this site alone have been complaining about all the terrible rip offs lately and yet they keep coming because people buy them anyway. From a marketing standpoint, it's much safer to go with a formula you know will work, rather than attempt to break ground by being original or incorporating new stereotypes into the protagonist. (Often only to receive scorn and poor profits that lead to inevitable bankruptcy when you do.)
People like the familiar and the hyper masculine is just that. This is why MovieBob mentions the sports game in the same breath as the space marines, they both are proponents of the same overarching stereotype that make them so very popular. (Granted, Gears of War itself is basically a parody of the stereotype, but moving on.)
So yeah...