Escapists and the military

[Giest4life]

There wasn't really anything against the military in that rant, it seemed to be mostly against politicians and this individual war. I don't really think you can argue against the vitality of a nation having a military, and if you do have an argument that isn't cantered around the "why can we be friends" argument I would love to hear it.

PS: Rise Against is one of the preachiest band to date, that isn't a complement. You also need to fix yuor code, take out one of the "=".

The vitality that a military provides to a nation does not equal a moral imperative that has to be met. Granted that I myself am amoral, but to quote a wiser man than myself: "the ephemeral chatter of politics and national egoism is beneath one." I myself hate the military, and just because I, as a citizen of the United States of America, "need" a military, does not decrease my loathing for it.

 

[wonkify]

Yep, former USMC, Arabic linquist. Still love it, grew up a Marine brat as well. My Dad is still my absolute hero and primo example of how to be an outstanding man, Marine AND a great Dad.
He's in his 70's and dying from lung scarring from Orange and the OTHER color code name variants he was exposed to. Agent Orange just happens to be the one we all have heard the most about.

Not as jazzed about playing FPS games after being in uniform for real. If I want to shoot I go to the range and shoot at paper with real weapons. Lots more fun, keeps my marksmanship sharp.

Gaming runs the gamut of types of people and interests, one of the many things good about it.

 

[Billion Backs]

I do not generally support the government, and I do not consider myself to be interested in following orders with little self-interest, so I'm not a big fan of military.

I've got nothing against war and violence, otherwise. It's just, I'm not interested in doing things that I don't support - and I do not support most reasons for current wars or the governments behind them.

 

[Aur0ra145]

See, that would be fine with me if they would let you leave. I'm all for finding out if you're cut out for fighting, but as long as you're reigned in for two years of service and have absent-with-out-leave hanging over your head, I won't be putting myself through that crap just to find out if I can take it.

If I remember correctly you can quit during basic if you really think that you just aren't cut out for it. I may be wrong though.

Well, whether or not that's true I doubt I'm cut out for it anyway. Aside from the issues I already stated, I value individuality too much to join an organization where you must be exactly like everyone else or face severe punishment for it.

Easy way to get around that, become a warrant officer!

 

[wonkify]

See, that would be fine with me if they would let you leave. I'm all for finding out if you're cut out for fighting, but as long as you're reigned in for two years of service and have absent-with-out-leave hanging over your head, I won't be putting myself through that crap just to find out if I can take it.

If I remember correctly you can quit during basic if you really think that you just aren't cut out for it. I may be wrong though.

Well, whether or not that's true I doubt I'm cut out for it anyway. Aside from the issues I already stated, I value individuality too much to join an organization where you must be exactly like everyone else or face severe punishment for it.

Easy way to get around that, become a warrant officer!

*Laughter* Excellent!

 

[Shock and Awe]

Spoiler: We need to lighten the mood around here....

 

[Jokuma]

I don't think I'll ever join the military. My father worked as a linguist for them and today he acts incredibly antisocial. I know it was probably not just his working with the military but it nevertheless threw me off of it entirely. It also doesn't sound like a job that I would do well in.

 

[swolf]

I enlisted in the U.S. Army, did my training as a Combat Medic, and got honorably discharged for medical conditions. That was a few years ago. I would love to put a link to a comic strip I saw earlier today but couldn't find it. Anyways, a guy calls the recruiter all hyped up talking about how he wants to be a hardcore ranger and all that. Then he shows up to the office and is overweight (like REALLY overweight). Sad thing, I've actually seen that happen. I offer to train civilians who are considering enlistment. So far, about ten have said that they want to do the training. Out of those 10, only 2 actually did the training. The first was a 250 lb (about 5'6" or 5'7") guy who lasted about an hour and a half (yeah, it surprised me too) and the second was a 165 lb female (about the same height) who lasted about 10 minutes (and I was really light and easy with her so I wouldn't scare her off...kinda ease her into it). Neither one would go for any more training...people just don't know how to push themselves. Everybody wants to be fit but so few will actually put any effort in to it. It's not a good thing when an asthmatic person with a limp and a shoulder that's so messed up that, when shown to a doctor, made the doc say "Th...fu?" is passing you with everything. (Yeah, that's something that you don't want to hear from a doctor. I heard that from a doctor about my shoulder and from a mechanic about my car in the same month, that was not fun.)

snip

Good luck with that. I've already tried reasoning with people who are anti-military with little luck to no luck...isn't it ironic that they use their freedom of speech to bad mouth those who defend their freedom of speech?

I personally wouldn't, but I have an uncle in the Peruvian Air Force, and my younger step brother was shipped out to San Diego for basic training. He's going into the Marines. But, what sucks is that I couldn't be there to say goodbye. Just makes me feel bad, but it was out of my hands.

Make sure that you stay in contact through letters, phone calls, etc. The support is a great morale booster.

 

[superbatranger]

I personally wouldn't, but I have an uncle in the Peruvian Air Force, and my younger step brother was shipped out to San Diego for basic training. He's going into the Marines. But, what sucks is that I couldn't be there to say goodbye. Just makes me feel bad, but it was out of my hands.

 

[darthricardo]

I'm actually planning on joining the Canadian Army as soon as I grad, and I think that the whole war effort in Iraq and Afghanistan gets a bad wrap. Canadian soldiers in the Middle-East don't do a terribly huge amount of fighting, and every source I've heard from who's actually had experience dealing with the military says that it's an incredibly engaging, fulfilling experience.
Of course, there's another reason everyone has their forces in the Middle East as well. Combat experience is one of the most valuable assets of any armed force, so it naturally follows that any government would want to get their troops into a war zone.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Oddly enough, Im discharging from the Army Reserves tonight. They've fucked up my pay so many times, I dont get to even get to my Regiment (As a Rifleman) until Dec or something, so Im only earning $40 a week and not being taught properly.

Only time I plan to re-enlist is if my Country is under attack.

Also a breathing problem screws me over, Physical wise. Im fit and all but I lose breath too fast and my heart climaxes way too fast. (Which has been like that since I was a kid)

 

[Lineoutt]

I would never join the army for any reason but to defend the people I love. My people are safe, I will not kill the families of other people. I would never support war.

 

[ottenni]

Recently signed up for the Reserves. But the signing up process takes a while so i probably wont start training for many months.

 

[Slaanax]

Army National Guard, Iraq 2005.

 

[Birdmad]

Oh, another thing... I'm a bit scared of the army. I mean... Brazilian army once decided it'd be great to be in the government and so... many people disappeared, were tortured and such... Students, specially. (I'm being really vague here... 'cause I think most people probably know about it, since it has a bit to do with the USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship_(Brazil) but here's wikipedia to sum a bit of it.)

I don't think there'd ever be another military dictatorship in Brazil... but just the thought of it is really scary.

 

[Marine Mike]

I would never join the army for any reason but to defend the people I love. My people are safe, I will not kill the families of other people. I would never support war.

"The most noble fate a man can endure is to place his own mortal body between his loved home and the war's desolation."
-Robert A. Heinlein, "Starship Troopers"

OT:
USMC Infantry Assaultman 08/2003-08/2007
Operation Secure Tomorrow, Port-Au-Prince, Haiti 2004
OIF, Fallujah, Iraq 2005
OIF, Ramadi, Iraq 2006


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

 

[Paksenarrion]

Well congrats, you broke the golden rule. "Hate the War Not The Soldier"

Thats not the golden rule... Thats actually a pretty stupid rule.
Soldiers sign up for a unfair war so therefore they are war criminals. They support it by joining. Thus they deserve every scrap of hatred thrown their way.

This is exactly how the military works. It's just like signing up for classes: you pick and choose which war you want to participate in. You can even choose how long to stay in; it's called Stop Loss. We veterans had so much freedom in the military, more so than civilians, it's not even funny.

 

[Paksenarrion]

I don't think I'll ever join the military. My father worked as a linguist for them and today he acts incredibly antisocial. I know it was probably not just his working with the military but it nevertheless threw me off of it entirely. It also doesn't sound like a job that I would do well in.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is an example of an informed opinion. More power to you, sir.

 

[Boba Frag]

Hell no. I will defend my country if it is directly attacked but detest any soldier who goes elsewhere to fuck with some poor other country and its citizens.
To me, if you participate in the war in iraq then you are every bit as guilty as that lying fuck Bush and should be branded a war criminal.

So no, I will never join any armed forces on moral grounds.

That's not really fair on the individual soldiers who, shockingly, are trained and conditioned to follow orders without questioning them.

That's how militaries the world over work. This doesn't leave them with much choice.
If they refuse, then they've basically just shot their careers down and will never see promotion.

I agree with what you're saying, but ultimately it's the leadership that must bear the brunt of the responsibility of the Iraq war.

Look up Generation Kill either on HBO or get the book.
It's quite illuminating as to the opinions of ordinary soldiers on the war- the know they're in the wrong place, but there's next to nothing they can do about it.

Moving back on topic-

I'm Irish (that is, an Irish citizen) and though I'm not in the Defence Forces, I do occasionally visit Collins Barracks in Cork doing research on my MA thesis on Irish peacekeeping ops.

Could you give me a TL;DR synopsis of why we were in Chad? I know it had something to do with Darfur, but most of my interest in Irish military history ends at the Lebanon.

It wasn't very well reported, unfortunately.

As far as I can gather it was to protect the refugee camps that had thousands fleeing across the border from the Sudan.

Add that to the civil war already raging in the country and it's a really messed up scenario.

Basically, the Irish mandate was to provide protection and I think a Quick Reaction Force as well, which I believe was undertaken by the ARW.

It was mostly a French lead mission, although as you know Lt.General Pat Nash was the force commander when it was a EUFOR operation.

This created a few problems, as far as I can tell.

On the one hand you have French peacekeepers, keeping their attention on the humanitarian side of things, but on the other you have french military units lending support to the Chadian government.

All academic now as the Irish contingent withdrew before the rainy season and before the UN mandate ran out.