Fallout New Vegas: The Post-Benny Syndrome

[Mausenheimmer]

I thought Fallout New Vegas had an unfulfilling plot, where the mood of action and consequence was like a bad rip off The Witcher, where everything goes to hell whatever you do. As opposed to The Witcher, in New Vegas' cynical world you can smell the American views of the world (which is a short-sighted and faulty view of the world and humanity). One clear example is the NCR, supposedly 'good guys' only because they wish to restore a pre-apocalypse American society.

NV does not get boring after you kill Benny, it gets boring and downright insulting after you realize what Obsidian did to Fallout.

You're kidding right?
The NCR are not the good guys, The BoS in Fallout 3 are good guys.
The NCR are decent, and that makes them the "good guys", since they oppose the Legion. You know, the guys that enslave women, force children into servitude, support cannibalism and shun technology? Obsidian made Fallout awesome, because there is no straight up, "these guys are the good guys, these are the bad guys" There is light gray to black in terms of good.

You may say that there's no straight up good guys & bad guys, but then you say NCR is light gray (basically good) and the Legion is black (evil). So already Obsidian failed there in story telling. Next, not a single companion endorses the Legion. They may not love the NCR (although none of them hate the NCR either), but they hate the Legion. So how can you possibly call that a gray area? The epilogues (where every thing gets better with the NCR and worse with the Legion) clearly undermine the idea that all the factions have their strong points too.

OT: For me, New Vegas never had any urgency at all. Really, who cares that Benny shot you? It happened in the opening cutscene, where you had no control, and had seen Benny for less than 30 seconds. You have no feel for who you are, why you're here, what you could ever want in the Mojave, etc. You're there because, hey, they set the sequel in the Mojave. Plus, the weapons all felt very off, like there wasn't a strong link between how a weapon looked and how much damage it did. I still remember the mission at the ritzy hotel where a regular cane did significantly more damage than a .22 pistol, even though I had spent no points in melee and was a master of small arms.

Lastly, the game never really felt post-apocalyptic to me. Sure, there were ruined buildings occasionally and mutated animals, but I never really felt like the end of the world happened. After all, there were governments, electricity, communities, agriculture, and really no clear threat. Sure, they talk about how Caesar's Legion (who do a piss poor impression of the actual Roman Legion) is the big bad monster across the river, but you never see them attack any place of value or see any significant forces (like Centurions) until the end. For example, it's one thing to come across some town just as they finished crucifying a bunch of people you never met who don't have names. Now, imagine if instead, they crucified the citizens of the town from the beginning of the game (which never really had any impact to begin with). It would have been much more effective at establishing them as the main threat. All in all, New Vegas was a very weak narrative and never really makes the player care about anything that's happening (unless the player has a deep seated love of the good old days, when Black Isle Studios made games).

 

[YawningAngel]

I thought Fallout New Vegas had an unfulfilling plot, where the mood of action and consequence was like a bad rip off The Witcher, where everything goes to hell whatever you do. As opposed to The Witcher, in New Vegas' cynical world you can smell the American views of the world (which is a short-sighted and faulty view of the world and humanity). One clear example is the NCR, supposedly 'good guys' only because they wish to restore a pre-apocalypse American society.

NV does not get boring after you kill Benny, it gets boring and downright insulting after you realize what Obsidian did to Fallout.

The NCR is doing the world a huge favour by restoring American-style civilization.

 

[Coldster]

I don't know about you, but I felt a new energy after dispensing of Benny. Especially because he said this to me(because I did the speech challenge at the Tops to make his guards not come after me): "Why you lying little weasel! "Please Benny leave me alive I won't come after you pinkie swear!" What a fink!". It was so funny that I gave me an extra boost of energy and allowed me to progress through the game without experiencing PBS. Also, I love that 9mm pistol and suit he has...

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

You don't actually take over anything, you just reinstate anarchy.

The Courier, at the end of the wild card path, is in charge of New Vegas. With the securitron army under the Courier's control, the strip is good as his/hers.

Yes, but that's not what happens.

Spoiler

"The Courier, with the aid of Yes Man, drove both the Legion and the NCR from Hoover Dam, securing New Vegas' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."

That proves exactly my point. Independence =/= You've become the god king/queen of Vegas. You're not fighting for control of Vegas, you're fighting for anarchy.

 

[BodomBeachChild]

I dunno about you, but I've been having tons of fun since killing Benny andy subsequently everyone else in my way. Let me direct you to newvegasnexus.com to relieve yer boredom.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Lastly, the game never really felt post-apocalyptic to me. Sure, there were ruined buildings occasionally and mutated animals, but I never really felt like the end of the world happened. After all, there were governments, electricity, communities, agriculture, and really no clear threat. Sure, they talk about how Caesar's Legion (who do a piss poor impression of the actual Roman Legion) is the big bad monster across the river, but you never see them attack any place of value or see any significant forces (like Centurions) until the end. For example, it's one thing to come across some town just as they finished crucifying a bunch of people you never met who don't have names. Now, imagine if instead, they crucified the citizens of the town from the beginning of the game (which never really had any impact to begin with). It would have been much more effective at establishing them as the main threat. All in all, New Vegas was a very weak narrative and never really makes the player care about anything that's happening (unless the player has a deep seated love of the good old days, when Black Isle Studios made games).

Fallout isn?t mainly about exploring land devastated by nuclear war, it?s about exploring a devastated world and experiencing how humanity now has to rebuild the said world they destroyed. Fallout 3 did give the sense of a destroyed world, but it is set 200 years after the apocalypse, should it really still be this crap looking and why haven?t large societies sprung up yet? The New California Republic managed to create a successful community with other settlements and a shorter time and now they have thousands of members. New Vegas perfectly captures the idea of rebuilding civilisation by presenting us with two major locations; New Vegas and Hoover Dam. Both of these cause the NCR and Caesars Legion to begin a war for total control, and Mr. House now has to defend his beloved city using deceit and manipulation.

 

[PixelKing]

And if you kept benny alive and he fled, he could of came back.
So much more could have been done.
Benny could have taken over vegas and you build a force and storm vegas, you, benny and yes-man ruling vegas etc.

 

[Alphakirby]

Actually, I thought it worked very well as a divisor between 'acts'. The way I see it, Act 1 is getting to Vegas, Act 2 working in and around Vegas to build relationships with various factions and Act 3 picking a side and manipulating the Mojave to suit them.

I accidentally let Benny escape from the Tops, having resolved to kill him. By the time I caught up with him in The Fort, I had decided to back the NCR and so had wiped out everyone else in The Fort. I decided to release him. By that point, my motivation for revenge seemed to be utterly petty compared to what was at stake, and at the start of the game Benny had already realised how important Vegas was. I had merely been a pawn then. I understood him.

I know what you mean,after I found Yes Man and heard about Benny's plan and intentions,I felt bad for getting a critical on him,thus turning him into a pile of goo and immediately continued from where he left off.

 

[DarkRyter]

You don't actually take over anything, you just reinstate anarchy.

The Courier, at the end of the wild card path, is in charge of New Vegas. With the securitron army under the Courier's control, the strip is good as his/hers.

Yes, but that's not what happens.

Spoiler

"The Courier, with the aid of Yes Man, drove both the Legion and the NCR from Hoover Dam, securing New Vegas' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."

That proves exactly my point. Independence =/= You've become the god king/queen of Vegas. You're not fighting for control of Vegas, you're fighting for anarchy.

Independence =/= anarchy. New Vegas is only independent in that is free from the control of a foreign power (NCR, Legion). The Families still run the Strip, and are themselves subject to the policing force of the Securitrons, which are under your control.

 

[Slayer_2]

I'm sure a lot of you who have played Fallout New Vegas have noticed this problem and some of you who are playing right now might even be feeling the effects of it. FNV Post-Benny Syndrome is a real problem.

FNV Post-Benny Syndrome, as some of you have probably already guessed, is the feeling of boredom and "why bother?" that sets in right after you've finally caught up with Benny and ended him. As soon as you see Benny's broken ragdoll plummet to the floor, your brain feels the rush of finally having caught up with the smug bastard and showed him how to really execute someone!

But then what? After that initial ecstatic boost, the game seems to drag. Without Benny, FNV loses its life as an involving narrative (the narrative being "this guy shot you now shoot him back") and becomes a race to see who you want to back as ruler of the Mojave. But there's no real direct link between you and this new story. Besides technically living in the Mojave, you don't really have a personal reason for choosing who rules it (unless you enjoy that sort of thing, I guess) and there's no pressing concern that the ruler of the Mojave will be chosen at random without you if you decide to ignore that plot.

So that's Post-Benny Syndrome in a nutshell. When I was thinking of this "affliction" the game seems to carry, the obvious sequel to that thought was "what could have been done differently to keep the syndrome from setting in?"

So, Escapists, can you think of anything that would have staved off the boredom that sets in directly after you've put Benny down?

I agree, although even leading up to finding Benny was kind of "meh", the whole story in FNV just isn't very gripping, Fallout 3 at least had an epic and interesting tale of humanity trying to improve the quality of life, instead of squabbling over a few casinos.

 

[AngryMongoose]

I guess they assume you'll follow the same reasoning that lead to you doing hundreds of quests on your path to find benny, i.e., money, power, guns and happiness. I mean, if you weren't into that kind of adventuring, why did you start your quest to destroy Benny anyway.

Also, when you pick up the chip you're meant to decide to finish the delivery. Mr.House at this point should have already told you to finish the delivery, and offers followup quests, presumably with pay. The Legion and NCR should also have offered you money by this point.

A similar situation happens in Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance. You start the game by being mugged, and resolve to get your stuff back from the thieves guild. By the time you're half way through the first level of the sewer, you've already made about 10 times the money you could have had, and there seems little more motivation than revenge to, and there's no better way of putting it, single (or duo) handedly murder every single person in the thieves guild and nick their stuff.

After that, things get really odd. Sure, you've basically been forced to join some heroing organisation, but that seems little motivation to go through a portal to some unknown location, murder your way through a city of Drow, with no apparent connection to the thieves guild, murder an ice dragon, take another portal to an unknown location, murder your way through a city of Lizard Men, with no apparent connection to the thieves guild, enter some eldritch tower full of war machines, which was at least funding the thieves guild, and kill someone simple because they pose a threat to a city you don't even live in.

Spoiler

At some point, murdering your way through the Onyx Tower, pockets overflowing with gold you won't even be able to spend, having just learned that there's no way out of the tower alive, you've got to wonder if you lost sight of your goals and went a little bit too far.

 

[Slayer_2]

I agree, although even leading up to finding Benny was kind of "meh", the whole story in FNV just isn't very gripping, Fallout 3 at least had an epic and interesting tale of humanity trying to improve the quality of life, instead of squabbling over a few casinos.

Ehh, disagree. New Vegas gave you the information that you would be fighting for the survival and well being of those living in the Mojave much earlier than Fallout 3 did. So in essence, the entire main plot of Fallout 3 was, "find daddy" right up until the end there. And I felt very little motivation to do so.

Epic and interesting is quite the overstatement.

I suppose you must have missed the parts where the purifier was over-run by enclave troops, you get captured, fight your way out of their stronghold, destroy it, and take back the purifier in a giant assault backed up by the BoS and a giant robot. With some mods, it's really quite the hardcore and deadly battle. If you know what you're doing, (read, if you've beat the game once), you can find your dad in less than 30 minutes. Just walk up to Vault 112 and save him, done. Even as a new player, it's easy enough to get clues, maybe an hour or two of quests, if you don't dawdle.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

You don't actually take over anything, you just reinstate anarchy.

The Courier, at the end of the wild card path, is in charge of New Vegas. With the securitron army under the Courier's control, the strip is good as his/hers.

Yes, but that's not what happens.

Spoiler

"The Courier, with the aid of Yes Man, drove both the Legion and the NCR from Hoover Dam, securing New Vegas' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave."

That proves exactly my point. Independence =/= You've become the god king/queen of Vegas. You're not fighting for control of Vegas, you're fighting for anarchy.

Independence =/= anarchy. New Vegas is only independent in that is free from the control of a foreign power (NCR, Legion). The Families still run the Strip, and are themselves subject to the policing force of the Securitrons, which are under your control.

Correction, they are under Yes Man's control. Once he undergoes a personality change the game implies that he will not be controlled by the Courier anymore.

I agree, although even leading up to finding Benny was kind of "meh", the whole story in FNV just isn't very gripping, Fallout 3 at least had an epic and interesting tale of humanity trying to improve the quality of life, instead of squabbling over a few casinos.

Ehh, disagree. New Vegas gave you the information that you would be fighting for the survival and well being of those living in the Mojave much earlier than Fallout 3 did. So in essence, the entire main plot of Fallout 3 was, "find daddy" right up until the end there. And I felt very little motivation to do so.

Epic and interesting is quite the overstatement.

I suppose you must have missed the parts where the purifier was over-run by enclave troops, you get captured, fight your way out of their stronghold, destroy it, and take back the purifier in a giant assault backed up by the BoS and a giant robot. With some mods, it's really quite the hardcore and deadly battle. If you know what you're doing, (read, if you've beat the game once), you can find your dad in less than 30 minutes. Just walk up to Vault 112 and save him, done. Even as a new player, it's easy enough to get clues, maybe an hour or two of quests, if you don't dawdle.

I also love how you were presented with barely any options or choices, and completely shat on lore.

 

[AngryMongoose]

I suppose you must have missed the parts where the purifier was over-run by enclave troops, you get captured, fight your way out of their stronghold, destroy it, and take back the purifier in a giant assault backed up by the BoS and a giant robot. With some mods, it's really quite the hardcore and deadly battle. If you know what you're doing, (read, if you've beat the game once), you can find your dad in less than 30 minutes. Just walk up to Vault 112 and save him, done. Even as a new player, it's easy enough to get clues, maybe an hour or two of quests, if you don't dawdle.

The point isn't how fun the quests are, it's whether the motivation for your character makes any sense. You actually admit to having missed the part where you stumble, forced, bleary eyed out of what was essentially the universe, without direction, and resolve, for some ill explored reason, to find a man who ran out on you with nary a farewell, leaving you to be a arrested for a crime you didn't know about, and stumble around the world asking strangers if they know where the hell this man has gone.

You then decide that you, who could be anything from a saviour and hero of the people, to some nihilistic sadist who manages to blow up an entire city within hours of finding out civilizations still exist, will help daddy turn on some arbitrarily large scale water purifying device.

You then briefly do something that makes sense, stopping a plot to kill thousands of people, a group which happens to contain you, albeit only because you happened to be in the area at the time.

Since you've already foiled this plot and destroyed the only thing planning to perpetrate it, you then spend the finale of the game fighting a war between two reclusive techno-hoarding military organisations over who gets to flip a switch. Literally. That's it. Since the Jefferson Memorial will provide water to everything, there's little benefit to being the one sitting in the control room.

That game was STOOPID.

 

[Slayer_2]

I suppose you must have missed the parts where the purifier was over-run by enclave troops, you get captured, fight your way out of their stronghold, destroy it, and take back the purifier in a giant assault backed up by the BoS and a giant robot. With some mods, it's really quite the hardcore and deadly battle. If you know what you're doing, (read, if you've beat the game once), you can find your dad in less than 30 minutes. Just walk up to Vault 112 and save him, done. Even as a new player, it's easy enough to get clues, maybe an hour or two of quests, if you don't dawdle.

Oh yeah, those parts. Twenty minutes before the end of the game. I remember those.

If you save your dad immediately then you would have no real incentive to do anything else, as again, they don't give you the information about the whole water supply thing until near the end of the game. At least in New Vegas you're clued into the whole struggle between factions thing before meeting up with Benny and deciding his fate. So you understand there's a larger overarching plot going on.

Even if you sprint with god mode on, I doubt you could beat the end quests in less than two hours. Mix in a realistic combat mod without god mode, and it can easily take that long just to do one of those parts. I'd peg the main quests at about 12 hours long, take away even as much as 3 of those for your dad quests, and that's still 9 hours of interesting story with some combat that involves more than killing a group of super mutants or raiders you stumble into in the wastes.

As for NV, again it's about struggling over some casinos. Do I care about some casinos? No. Over-arching plots are nice, but you really have no need for more than a few thousand caps, so why would you want to waste time trying to accrue more? I'd rather be dropped into an epic struggle for humanities survival. Maybe it's just a matter of opinion. Some like playing the big hero and saving the day (or killing everyone, if you used the FEV), some enjoy using social manipulation to try and take over some casinos.

 

[Iwata]

I didn't feel like that at all. I spend a good ammount of time exploring and doing quests, I don't speedrun through the main storyline, and by the time I caught up with Benny, it felt like my personal quest had lost importance in the face of something bigger, which was deciding the future of the Mojave.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I did feel kinda disappointed after killing Benny. It was built up to be the most heart stopping, dramatic part of the game. And it was, don't get me wrong. Executing that asshole in Caesars camp was very satisfying. And after that, I did have to think what to do now... I eventually got something else to do, but It did feel a bit empty. Because Benny was the only real enemy that deserved my time and dedication. All the other enemies just attacked randomly, or was just my enemy because someone told me they was.