Fan-works that they deserve to be official.

[aba1]

To get fan work published is to alter the original authors work through association. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad the fact is it directly alters the perception, reception and appreciation of the original work not to mention the message and story behind it all.

There is a difference between saying "hmmm I don't care for this painting" and saying "hmmm I don't care for this painting" and then changing it simply because you don't like it.

I see your problem here. You fail to understand the distinction between changing a physically existing object, and creating new ideas.

Fanfiction changing someone's perception of a story, doesn't actually change the story. It's still there, the words are set in stone, the same colors are on the same canvas, the strings of data are still on your hard drive, and in your mind.

That there are ALSO some other words set in another stone, other colors on anothr canvas, extra strings of data on another part of your hard drive, and a few more thoughts in your mind, doesn't take it away. If you treat the "perception" that is in your head as a physical object, that shouldn't be altered, then you should stop communicating with people, because that's what communication is all about. Changing each other's perceptions.

Reviews alter the perception. Commentary alters perception. Jokes alter peception. New stories can also alter perceptions of old ones, maybe slightly more effectively when they use the same setting. So what? That's what they are supposed to do!

There is The Problem of Susan [http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/the-problem-of-susan] by Neil Gaiman, a short story that is about Susan Pevensie of The Chronicles of Narnia, (without formally confirming the character's identity in the novella), that is all about changing your perception of Lewis' world, and the implied theology behind it. It's a counterargument, against an argument. Lewis wrote a story showing how salvation works, and Gaiman wrote a story showing the horrifying implications of Lewis's idea.

To say that such stories shouldn't officially exist because the "original artist" has a right to stop these counter-arguemnts, is like saying that every forum thread OP should have mod powers, because if the discussion was "their idea", then they get to censor anyone who is picking up the thread.

I see your problem here. You fail to understand the distinction between talking about a work and adding to or changing it. See there is a difference between having a picture like mine and having your picture placed next to mined and titled to say it is part of mine. You want to know the problem with that is I wouldn't consider it part of mine I never created it in fact it is altering my pictures purpose by association. It would be like if you had a paper published and I started adding to it and turning it into a hate filled misguided bigoted paper and labeled it as the second half to yours. Now you are arguing that this is fine despite that my words will forever represent you and your words. Your example of reviewers is also way of base there is a difference between referencing someones work and adding to it. You can give your opinion on something without changing the work itself but you can't just start adding to the work.

 

[Flippincrazy]

'Mass Effect: Interregnum' was also very well written and has a far greater potential to be canon than the above entry.

Don't think it's really fair to compare Marauder Shields and Interregnum considering that the former is a brand new ending to ME3 constructed from the ground up while the latter is just a detailed story of Garrus's time on Omega as Archangel. Not saying it's bad or anything, just fail to see how someone could assume that one has any more credibility than the other.

I mean yeah I get that Interregnum doesn't mess with established canon or whatever, but the fact that ME3's ending was so poorly received and basically rejected by a huge portion of the fanbase (coupled with the fact that it was so turdish even Bioware didn't have the balls to completely stand by it) doesn't exactly afford the "canonical ending" the same level of credibility that is rightfully attributed to the rest of ME canon.

Personally, I'm just waiting with cautious optimism to see if Koobs actually manages to pull off his Marauder Shields gambit, which will definitely be replacing the ME3 ending in my head if he does.

If not, ah well. I'll just go watch Cowboy Bebop a couple hundred more times.

To clarify, where I said 'has a greater potential to be canon than the above entry' - I was referencing the above paragraph in my post, not the above post. My apologies for not making this clear enough.

But on your point, the issue of 'credibility' does not apply to the ending of Mass Effect 3 - as far as Bioware are concerned (as the company who created the game and the creator of lore and such), the Extended Cut is the ending and, I'm afraid, just as canon as anything else in the Mass Effect Universe. True, Bioware may have gone back and expanded upon it, but somehow I think that arguing their change as a negative is both somewhat unfair and ultimately foolhardy - they had their final say. But that's an argument for different thread.

Anywho, another thing that slipped my mind - virtually everything in the Steam Workshop for Team Fortress 2. The potential within many of the 4-5 star skins there should really not go wasted. If an item clusterfuck would incur, I'd accept it as an unfortunate but necessary consequence of awesomeness.

 

[Ambitiousmould]

GW should poke around the w40k forums for fan made codexes because 90% of the time they are far more balanced than the official ones.

Not to mention any custom lore they have in them is much much better than official stuff written by idiots like Ward.

I haven't seen these fan-made codexes, but i can't agree more that Ward's lore is really childish, it's like 'and then the grey knight shotted lazer beamses from his eyes and killed all the deemuns cuz my army is the bestest' literally, one of the characters can't die, and if he does he resurrects for no reason other than because his lore is infantile.
his actual codexes (codice? codeces?) are really unbalanced too, thinking along the lines of grey knights and blood angels which are just stupidly overpowered.

on topic: I really like the tyrannid mod for Dawn of War Soulstorm, it's well made and pretty balanced.

 

[Entitled]

Just because people claim something is a rip off doesn't mean they are. You example of dances with the wolves to avatar is a great example because Avatar is not a rip off. If you compare the two the only thing they have in common in the central premise they don't share characters, actors, scripts, lighting, dialog, settings literally nothing is shared but the bare basic premise.

And just because the letter of the law can officially identify character or setting names more easily than premises, that doesn't make them a more fundemantal rip-off.

It's easy to make up new character names. They are just strings of letters. It's easy to even modify settings, or write differently worded lines in a script to tell the same basic premise.

To write not just "legally original", but UNIQUE premises, plot points, characterization details, messages, that's the hard part. And there are many fanfiction series that are much better at it than official works.

Which of these would you consider a fanfiction, that shouldn't ever have been allowed to get published?

...after a certain amount of time your works can become public domain...

...legally considered different enough...

...DC owns all the characters on either side and they cannot rip off themselves...

...Must have been legally different enough to be considered not a rip off...

Your answers were... legally accurate. Also, completely amoral.

I don't mean immoral, but really, amoral, as in surprisingly unrelated to all that great moral preaching that you practiced in this thread, as it all boils down to "whatever the current copyright system calls Original is original, an whatever it calls a ripoff is a ripoff" even if it completely contradicts all common sense.

Let's face it: You don't give a shit about artists' wishes being violated, as long as it's done after the artist was already forced to give up his IP rights to a corporation, like Moore and the Watchman movie.
You don't care about preserving one's perception of an "original" work, if the artist is a dead guy like Doyle, but you do if it's a slightly less decomposed dead guy, like Tolkien, whose IP legally still exist for decades.
You don't care about someone writing fanfic and then changing the character names, as long as then he sells it with the corporation that owns the setting ripped off anyways, like Moore with his comic.
You don't care about entire characters or settings being copied as long as the names are properly modified to be lawyer-friendly, as in Spaceballs, or not even that, as in Epic Movie, as long as it uses the Fair Use law's parody excemption, while copying entire scenes, even original gags, from the movies that they rip off.

Oh, sorry. I mean that "they are inspired by".

 

[Entitled]

I see your problem here. You fail to understand the distinction between talking about a work and adding to or changing it.

No, I see the difference perfectly well.

Talking about a work, is like fanfiction, when you are picking up ideas from a story, that you then copy in your own new story, to make a new point about it, and maybe change what people think about it.

Changing a work, that is when you locate every existing copy of a story, delete them, and replace them with your own changed version, while also ereasing everyoe's memory of the first version.

See there is a difference between having a picture like mine and having your picture placed next to mined and titled to say it is part of mine.

Exactly. The first one would be good old fanfiction. The second, that is mistitled with fake authorship, would be miscreditation.

Here is the difference:

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality - by Eliezer Yudkowsky
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality - by J.K. Rowling

The first one of these is a "picture" like someone else's. It shares some elements, such as characters, or the rules of a magical system, but they are also different from each other in many senses, as both artists make different, equally valuable points. Maybe it will change your perception of the other picture (pictures sometimes do that), but the other picture itself is still safely separate from it.

The second is miscredited in the title. It isn't supposed to be next to that artist's name, who didn't deserve to get credit for it since she didn't write it.

It would be like if you had a paper published and I started adding to it and turning it into a hate filled misguided bigoted paper and labeled it as the second half to yours. Now you are arguing that this is fine despite that my words will forever represent you and your words.

Again, it's depending on whether you are plagiarising my paper, and then publishing it under my name, or writing your own separate paper under your own name, that copies ideas from mine.

In the latter case, good luck with it, but as long as you don't LIE about it's authorship, it will be obvious to anyone that it's a separate paper, just as no one who pays the least bit of attention, assumes that Rowling wrote Methods of Rationality.

Your example of reviewers is also way of base there is a difference between referencing someones work and adding to it. You can give your opinion on something without changing the work itself but you can't just start adding to the work.

You are yet to give any example of how fanfiction changes the original story.

There is a huge difference between "a new story is changing this older story" and "a new story is changing the way you think about this older story".

The former literally can't happen. There is nothing being "changed about" or "added to" Rowling's seven Harry Potter novels, just because others are also writing their own new Harry Potter novels. They are not being "added to the work", they are their own work, that copies some elements of the older one.

 

[Nouw]

snip

You mention Alan Moore but forget two of his works that are pretty much fanfiction. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen] uses characters Captain Nemo from ...Leagues and the Invisible Man from The Invisible Man. Lost Girls [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Girls] uses characters like Alice from ...Wonderland and uses such characters in a Rule 34 fashion.

 

[Kontarek]

snip

Ah ok. I ain't the most perceptive fellow so I gotta take some of the blame there. But it's all good.

And I know that Bioware considers the Extended Cut the official ending; anyone who agrees with them is more than welcome to run with that as far as I'm concerned.

But I can't run with that. Even with the changes it still effectively destroys a story I'd been following for three years (I was a bit late to the party on the first game).

But we've heard all this before, and I suspect that by now most people are pretty firmly grounded on whatever side of the argument they've chosen so I'm not going to press the issue.


But even if you do happen to be rooted on the other side of the argument, I would still recommend checking out Marauder Shields if you haven't. Even if you don't agree with what it's doing you might still be able to appreciate the high production values and (thus far) strong storytelling.

 

[aba1]

snip

Yaaaa I am not going to even bother. You clearly have your mind made up to the point where you're even telling me what I think. No point arguing with someone who is so indisputably ignorant of others it is just a waste of time. Peace I am out.

 

[Vault101]

To get fan work published is to alter the original authors work through association. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad the fact is it directly alters the perception, reception and appreciation of the original work not to mention the message and story behind it all.
.

but you generally can;t get fan work published because of copyright and IP, not to mention people know its a fan-fic and arent going to take it as seriously or on the same level as the original work...it doesnt matter how well written or truw to the lore one persons story about femshep getting it on with James vega is, I'ts still fanfic

also there somes a certain point long after a work is public domain that I see no issue....we've taken charachters and dane all kinds of things with them..frankenstein, pride and prejudice, sherlock holmes...in fact originally back in the day when sherlock holmes was killed off a bunch of fans fixed that with some "fan fic" in fact fan fic http://www.cracked.com/article_19084_5-reasons-pop-culture-run-by-fan-fiction.html

 

[aba1]

To get fan work published is to alter the original authors work through association. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad the fact is it directly alters the perception, reception and appreciation of the original work not to mention the message and story behind it all.
.

but you generally can;t get fan work published because of copyright and IP, not to mention people know its a fan-fic and arent going to take it as seriously or on the same level as the original work...it doesnt matter how well written or truw to the lore one persons story about femshep getting it on with James vega is, I'ts still fanfic

also there somes a certain point long after a work is public domain that I see no issue....we've taken charachters and dane all kinds of things with them..frankenstein, pride and prejudice, sherlock holmes...in fact originally back in the day when sherlock holmes was killed off a bunch of fans fixed that with some "fan fic" in fact fan fic http://www.cracked.com/article_19084_5-reasons-pop-culture-run-by-fan-fiction.html

That is all true but not the point. The whole point of the thread is fan fictions people feel should be official or published. They may not legally be able to be I am just reinforcing the reasoning behind those laws and the ethics. I don't care for fan fiction but like you said they stay to themselves which is why I don't go out of my way to hate and for the most part leave them alone. I was just getting at why fan fictions should never be published not saying that it will happen or anything.

 

[lunavixen]

This guys work

http://patryk-garrett.deviantart.com/

it's utterly amazing, I don't know if he works for Bioware or not (last journal entry on DA was in 2011), but his work is amazing

 

[Asita]

The Brotherhood of Shadow/Solomon's Revenge mod for Knights of the Old Republic. While granted its timing is positively horrific (it's a substantial (read: 5+ hours) pair of side-quests that can only be taken during a part of the game that should be high-tension and very focused on the primary objective) it adds a good bit of backstory (some unique, some implied via KoTOR and KoTORII) while remaining thematically appropriate. (Word of advice for anyone planning to download it: Give your character some crowd control like Force Wave. IT HELPS)

Which of these would you consider a fanfiction, that shouldn't ever have been allowed to get published?

Virgil - The Aeneid (the adventures of Iliad side character Aeneas, unauthorised by Homer)
Sherlock - (2010 TV series) (unauthorised by Arthur Conan Doyle).
E. L. James - 50 Shades of Grey (written as a story with Twilight characters, then changed their names for legal reasons)
Alan Moore - Watchmen (comic) (written as story with DC characters, then changed their names for legal reasons)
Watchmen (movie) (Made directly against comic author Alan Moore's will)
Spaceballs (movie) (made without Lucasfilm's or George Lucas's consent)
Epic Movie (movie) (featuring a large cast of copyrighted characters)

Don't forget Wicked (musical/book) which provides a backstory and different perspective for the Wicked Witch of the West, Oz: the Great and Powerful (due out in 2013), The Wrath of Khan (Gene Roddenberry was an executive consultant, but that was the extent of his involvement and he wasn't involved at all with the series of Deep Space Nine, Voyager or Enterprise, to say nothing of the 2009 reboot movie), basically the entire EU of Star Wars...all of which would fit his stated definition of fanfiction by not being part of the original author's vision.

That is all true but not the point. The whole point of the thread is fan fictions people feel should be official or published. They may not legally be able to be I am just reinforcing the reasoning behind those laws and the ethics. I don't care for fan fiction but like you said they stay to themselves which is why I don't go out of my way to hate and for the most part leave them alone. I was just getting at why fan fictions should never be published not saying that it will happen or anything.

Eh...To be blunt? you're really coming off more as using this as an opportunity to rant about how fanfiction in general is somehow 'morally deficient' for somehow overwriting the original author's intent[footnote]which, frankly is more than a little silly, as the fanfiction exists in isolation from the original work rather than replacing it, and often tells a different tale set at a point in time not covered by the original work[/footnote]. Whether or not this was your intent, that is the shape your arguments seem to be taking.

Additionally, you are taking the title far too seriously. It's hyperbolic in nature with the apparent intent being "what is the best [thematically fitting] fan-made content you can think of?" This isn't a petition or anything like that, it's a favorites list of sorts.

 

[Vault101]

snip.

its a question of how much of a "right" the original creator has of their work....

plus as somone Mentioned Wicked was an amazing musical based on the wizard of oz story (which I think started out as a book) now if the original guy didn't like it? well too fucking bad....

 

[Gatx]

I'm gonna say Tea of Sagittarius. Excellent doujinshi of the Haruhi series. It captures that humor of the original series in the dialogue, and actually feels like a part of the series, rather than just taking the characters and making them do things that author wants. It also has the sense of working towards a kind of epic conclusion since Kyon has been forced to play the John Smith card.

 

[SweetShark]

I'm not usually one to gush over fanworks (I subscribe to Sturgeon's Law in regard to fanworks/fanfiction/mods/ect) but goddammit...there's no other way to say it. This was a goddamn masterpiece.

Spoiler: Warning: Ponies

OOOOOOOOuuuuuuu......I heard this one.........I think this the opposite as you describe.
No because it is bad written, but because of the controversial this fanfic have making the hardcore fans sceaming and want to kill the one that made this....
I never read this but I know......I know about the tale of an OC character with the name Nyx....
Also base of some pics I saw.......it is dark as f*ck [never read this, sorry]
But I will admit, I love the artist that also worked in this fanfic:
http://dreatos.deviantart.com/gallery/

 

[Entitled]

snip

Yaaaa I am not going to even bother. You clearly have your mind made up to the point where you're even telling me what I think. No point arguing with someone who is so indisputably ignorant of others it is just a waste of time. Peace I am out.

Well, of course, I'm just as convinced about my point as you about yours. I already expected that when I wrote my first reply, because that's what people do in forum threads. Debate about things that they are convinced about.

The point of arguing was not to convince you, (or me), but to convince any other reader of this thread who might have slightly positive/negative views on the morals of fanfiction, to reveal to each of them how one of these stances doesn't make sense.

And that's what I did. I pointed out the hypocrisy of worshipping whatever copyright law allows to be "official", while dismissing everyone else that it doesn't as a ripoff. I pointed to artists whose will is violated by using these very copyright laws, and I cited greatly original pieces of art that only this flawed idea of copyright stops from being "official".

Your moral claims are forfeit. If you intend to stick to your stance, then I recommend you that next time you find more solid ones.

 

[Tono Makt]

Hrm. Not to be a homer, but I'm really surprised no one has mentioned the Blue Rose of Illium.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/escapist-comics/9758-Blue-Rose-of-Illium

 

[SweetShark]

Hrm. Not to be a homer, but I'm really surprised no one has mentioned the Blue Rose of Illium.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/escapist-comics/9758-Blue-Rose-of-Illium

Oh my!!!
I didn't knew Escapist site had a comic base in Mass Effect.
Update now.
If you have something to say about this comic, please tell me what do you think.

 

[juyunseen]

For the obligatory pony post, Fallout: Equestria needs to be real.

I know it never will be, but if you like Fallout at all, you owe it to yourself to try it. It's just that damn good.