Female Power Fantasy

[James Joseph Emerald]

I'll use firefly as my reference.

Every Joss Whedon character is basically Joss Whedon wrapped in a generic archetype. In the case of River Tam, a mysterious crazy chick.


I think the female equivalent of a male power fantasy like James Bond is someone like Lady Gaga.

 

[Vault101]

Alyx vance a power fantssy?...my god, that is sad

you need to look no further....

[img/]http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Mass_Effect_3_FemShep_Friday_Reinstated_Vid-500x311.jpg[/img]

oh and Samus...not lacking in power..mabye in personalty depending on the particualy thing she is in

 

[Dismal purple]

My contribution:

Spoiler

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Commander Shepard springs to mind, Lara Croft, female Hawke. I love my Fallout characters too.

Seriously women don't want much different to men in our power fantasy. We just want to be heroes. Hell, I wanted to be Indiana Jones, Han Solo and James Bond when I was little.

 

[Phasmal]

Commander Shepard springs to mind, Lara Croft, female Hawke. I love my Fallout characters too.

Seriously women don't want much different to men in our power fantasy. We just want to be heroes. Hell, I wanted to be Indiana Jones, Han Solo and James Bond when I was little.

Yes, pretty much this.
It's funny to see people umming and aahhing over the fact that some women might want to be powerful.
I also love Ripley. She may be tomboyish but so am I.

 

[cainx10a]

I'll use firefly as my reference.
here you go, a good female character.

I'm not sure people want to be her, being slightly mad. I would've thought zoe.

But I'm not a woman, so I really don't know :/

Not a woman either.

That character was the equivalent of the wave of overpowered loli characters in anime these days. You know, little kids who are all adorable and cute, but are somehow capable battleship commanders or something similar.

I mean for most part in the TV show, she needed to be protected from the big evil alliance douches. Sure, she is a badass in fights, but not what I would call a good female character.

I am really biased on this, I am not a big fan of modern feminist who at each turn tell me how much society gives me when in truth, I don't get anything from said society.

For me a good female character is not Alyx "Mary Sue" Vance, but Bayonetta. She is powerful, she can handle herself without needing help, and by help, I mean you-do-all-the-work-while-i-act-supportive-and-normal from Gordon or that totally unimportant sidekick in Bayonetta. How did Bayonetta get there? Did she need the man? Did she need to be pampered by giving her a role that was meant for the man? No, she worked her butt (<3) to get there. She is powerful, not because she has to be powerful, but because she is. That's good character. Not Alyx Vance, not that little princess who needs rescuing every-time from a great turtle, or that awful character in Dark Age of Might & Magic, which sadly was a good game.

And yes, Avatar, the last airbender. That's how you create female characters. They are being given power or position not just because they are women, but because they are working their ass off to show that they are worth the power they are holding. They can hold their own, and win in fights that are "usually" reserved for the male characters to win in these type of TV Shows. That's equality, working all the way up against all odds, and being on par and defeating their enemies without needing to be saved by the man. All right, I'm not saying, you don't need to have safety nets in modern society for equal chances, but within the world of Avatar, it was great seeing how these female characters develop. They are not trying to steal the show, by being all Girl Power, but they are on equal footing with the male characters, which is fantastic.

Take a look at Naruto: you might have powerful female characters, but they always end up losing in the battle, and it's up to the male to save the days. One of my favorite show, but when you think about it, the author needs a good wake up call about how to write female characters.

Commander Shepard springs to mind, Lara Croft, female Hawke. I love my Fallout characters too.

Seriously women don't want much different to men in our power fantasy. We just want to be heroes. Hell, I wanted to be Indiana Jones, Han Solo and James Bond when I was little.

This. I still believe a character creator should be a must in a every single game. However, what about female support characters? Should they be like Alyx Vance, or Bayoneta? And by B, I don't mean has to be sexy, but powerful and be their own character rather than needing to be rescued by the protagonist at every turn.

 

[5ilver]

Uh,

Spoiler

?
Idk, I don't understand women
I really liked Jade, though <3
Unlike most female characters, she's not just a bland love interest straight out of a conveyor line.

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

Basic rules for me to enjoy a female character:

REAL- She has to have some flaws, even if small.

CONTEXT- If she is supposed to be a normal human, please do not put 5000 lb swords on her.

STRENGTHS- they have to be good too. It can't just be - She wuvs the lead character very much. or some crap like that.

Now, when I want to play what I would call a badass female character, certain things are added in:

SLIGHT BITS OF REALISM- As in. If you want 1200 lb swords, she is not simply human. She is Hulk woman. A woman that uses a bow must not have FFF bra size.

PERSONALITY- I despise when its a whiny woman character just as much as I dislike a whiny male character. You can hurt and suffer, but I want it to match the character. Please don't make this supposed badass cry every twelve minutes. please.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I agree wholeheartedly with Avatar The Last Airbender being an excellent example of truly good female characters. They even did a female villain amazingly well. Their new avatar Korra is amazing, I said to a friend that I have never been as drawn in so much with a show. I am truly anxious for her.

I would like female sidekicks to be appropriate for the story really. But it never should be forgotten that we are just people like everyone else. Loved Veronica and Cass in Fallout Vegas. They were flawed and had troubles and concerns like everyone else.

 

[Eamar]

Commander Shepard springs to mind, Lara Croft, female Hawke. I love my Fallout characters too.

Seriously women don't want much different to men in our power fantasy. We just want to be heroes. Hell, I wanted to be Indiana Jones, Han Solo and James Bond when I was little.

Yes, pretty much this.
It's funny to see people umming and aahhing over the fact that some women might want to be powerful.
I also love Ripley. She may be tomboyish but so am I.

Thirded. I always wanted (hell, I still want) to be a hero. People who complain about female characters who are "just men with boobs" are missing the point- traditionally heroic characters are aspirational fantasies for some humans. Gender doesn't come into it. True, not everyone is inspired by these characters and we do need variety, but that goes for both genders.

EDIT: to expand on this, my personal power fantasies in gaming are my Bioware RPG characters: my Shepard and my Grey Warden. Both are straightforward, traditionally "male" hero classes (soldier and warrior, specialised berserker respectively) and wouldn't be all that different at all if they were dudes. In contrast to myself, since I nearly always choose tanking characters, my boyfriend prefers more "fragile" (in terms of physical strength and armour) builds like mages and finds he can relate to them more.

The problem is not that characters like this are "too male" to be considered strong female characters, but that these attributes are perceived as exclusively "male" in the first place.

 

[cainx10a]

snip

I agree wholeheartedly with Avatar The Last Airbender being an excellent example of truly good female characters. They even did a female villain amazingly well. Their new avatar Korra is amazing, I said to a friend that I have never been as drawn in so much with a show. I am truly anxious for her.

I would like female sidekicks to be appropriate for the story really. But it never should be forgotten that we are just people like everyone else. Loved Veronica and Cass in Fallout Vegas. They were flawed and had troubles and concerns like everyone else.

I bought FNV since release, but have yet to really play it. I got discouraged when my save files were corrupted, and my very evil guy couldn't go around making people feel miserable about their lives. Though I still remember assassinating Cass though for those gunsmiths gang/trader or whatever they were.

I should add my favorite female characters in a video game so far were Bayonetta, and Bioware's female characters, be it Commander Shepard or Morrigan or Ashley.

 

[MetalMagpie]

As a woman, characters like Gloria (DMC4) and Bayonetta have always struck me as female power fantasies. They're not tomboys. They're not trying to be men (as if female qualities are inherently a weakness). They're powerful women who dominate the situations they enter. And they're just as overblown as Superman.

I've always loved watching the scene in DMC4 when Nero encounters Gloria. While she swaggers about - having fun playing to the camera - he's left perplexed and uncomfortable.

One of the greatest power fantasies for a woman is to be able to have that sort of affect on men. To literally leave them stumbling over their words, unable to form a coherent thought. Then to walk away laughing. Being able to kick ass whilst wearing high heels is just bonus.

I'm sure plenty of guys like Gloria and Bayonetta too. Which begs the question: Why can't a character both be a sexual fantasy for men and a power fantasy for women? And does the fact that men can like very dominant female characters (without just feeling threatened by them) say something really positive?

 

[Liviola]

snip

Power fantasy is the wrong word, because there are no socially acceptable avenues for a female power fantasy. Yeah, we could talk about characters like Ripley from the alien series, but they're not female identification fantasies, they're tomboys - they're women who can fill in as socially acceptable substitutes for men in films which call for a female character to do "man stuff".

...

Positive images of femininity are usually not things in their own right, historically (and still generally today) a woman's self worth has been purely about her ability to appeal to men through a subordinate position. That's the traditional female "power fantasy", the state of being desired by men so men will do things for you and make your life easier.

Depressing, right?

Good points.

I'll agree "power" is not exactly a right word, but I do have an image of my 'ultimate form of self'. Firstly, I'm sort of what you could call post-feminist -- I'm totally not interested in tropes in media of ball-breaking, manly-strength, violently predatory chicks who are at the same time oversexualised and young. It seems pathetically overcompensatory in a distinctly juvenile male way.

I am, however, proud of my feminine qualities such as charity, care for others, resilience and wisdom. I guess I'm getting to the age where I'm actually discovering "mom qualities" in myself (I'm totally not a mom and I'm in my early 20s but I'm starting to respect and value these traits).

So, if I picture myself in the ultimate form, I would be someone that many people depend upon for care and wisdom, and also respect and fear (potentially) and trust me, and I'd have some serious skills in things that make everyone look up to me. That's probably how you can describe Femshep or a bunch of other game and movie heroines. But yeah, just highlighting how it's not strength or raw power, per se. It's an aura of respect that you can gain from a number of other traits like knowledge, resilience and beauty.

I think that is one thing that made Ripley's character admirable is her "maternal strength". For those of us who had amazing mothers, you'd know that admiration and respect for a woman who is both sensitive and tough, or even some of you guys know what it's like to have a woman partner who is dependable, dignified, and carries herself with a natural elegance, not necessarily sexual but awe-inspiring.

That is what I'd want to be

 

[Phasmal]

snip

For men this leads to Rambo, for women it leads to Bella Swan.

I'm gonna have to disagree.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think that the idea of being powerful means either being male or being desired by men.
I don't long to be a blank slate that guys sigh at cause I'm oh-so-pretty. My power fantasies are more along the lines of having a gun and a fist that shoots lightning. I dont think that makes me particularly male. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not the girliest girl who ever girl'd but I am (as I imagine all people are) a mix of conforming to and rejecting societal expecatations.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Umm... you do raise some interesting points, but how many adult women do you really know who aspire to be like Bella Swan? There may be some, but she's designed to appeal to pre-teens and teenagers and is something of a fantasy for girls in that age group, but not for many women.

And Bella Swan, really? I don't think that being some helpless toy in the affairs of men, who are all better in everything than you, is something very desirable.

To be fair, I was kind of exaggerating. I mean, the Hunger Games and Harry Potter are equally popular amongst a similar demographic, both written by women and both featuring some very "strong" female characters. In fact, literally fiction in general is now kind of a female-dominated market nowadays.

But can you think of a film focusing on female characters designed for an adult female audience? You're probably thinking of some god-awful RomCom, right? If you're lucky, you might be thinking of a romantic drama or post-feminist "sassy" comedy like Sex and the City, but the vast majority of material aimed at women is still insipid, unoriginal and low-risk, because marketers have got used to the idea that if women want something more, they'll go and watch media designed for men.

Which is why, even though a significant number of women do watch science fiction, fantasy, horror and other genres designed for men, it's only really in the youth market that we get movies with these themes specifically targeted at a female audience (and then generally only when they've had proven success as a book).

Thus female equivalent to the 80s action movie hero is still, unfortunately, the romantic heroine. She might be a bit more sassy or outrageous than her 18th century ancestors, but her primary concern remains finding a man to take care of her, because that's how women have historically gained power and legitimacy in society, by influencing the men who can be presumed to have all that power. A woman who can attract a "special" or powerful man, whether a rich businessman or a fucking sparkly vampire, is succeeding by the standards of her social role, and that's still very attractive.

Fortunately, the world is changing. It's changed more than those early feminists feared, but certainly less than they hoped. We do have genuinely strong female characters in women's media now, particularly in young women's media.

But it's still not about "powerful" women in the same way action movies are about "powerful" men. Exaggerated ultra-competent "tough-chicks" or dominatrix super-seductresses are almost always written by men for a male audience.

 

[Eamar]

snip

Ah, I see what you were getting at now. I thought you were saying that Bella would be considered a power fantasy by a lot of women (since that's the sort of thing the OP was asking for), not that she's an example of what the media think women want to see.

In that case, yes, what you say is very true (not to mention well thought-out and articulately put). Thanks for bringing this up

 

[Phasmal]

snip

Ah, I see what you were getting at now. I thought you were saying that Bella would be considered a power fantasy by a lot of women (since that's the sort of thing the OP was asking for), not that she's an example of what the media think women want to see.

In that case, yes, what you say is very true (not to mention well thought-out and articulately put). Thanks for bringing this up

Agreed, it did kind of sound like you were saying that lol.
But I can see what you're getting at now.

 

[Freaky Lou]

Another might be Samantha Carter in Stargate: SG1, or Ripley in Alien.

I am glad I am not the only one who thought of Carter!

First one that comes to mind for me. Elizabeth Weir from Atlantis, too.

Modern sci-fi is actually pretty good about female characters in general, I find.

 

[Beliyal]

I'll use firefly as my reference.
here you go, a good female character.

I'm not sure people want to be her, being slightly mad. I would've thought zoe.

But I'm not a woman, so I really don't know :/

I'd say that all Firefly female characters are great female characters. They all have flaws and virtues, they are all capable at doing things and handling themselves, but they also often need help and comfort. You know, just like real people. Even Inara, who people might think of as a character who's there to be good looking and appeal to men, is a powerful female character; she is beautiful and smart, she has control over her sexuality, but she's also vulnerable at times and has emotions. Male characters in Firefly are also great. They are all human; they are powerful but they also have flaws and insecurities and the need for others.

The female characters in the cartoon series Avatar are really fucking awesome and well written. ..... snip!

Also, this. The Avatar series (both of them) are great with making awesome, but realistic characters. There's also always a variety of them and not a single female trope (or male trope for that matters). As above, the shows/movies/games/books that have good female characters, also tend to have good male characters as well. We should strive to create more characters like that in media of any kind.

I don't think there's one specific female power fantasy, but I do believe that women (well, me in any case) want for female characters to be characters, and not decoration or objects (and we are really sensitive when we spot a female character who's there just so men can look at her, especially if that's the only type of a female character there). I don't care if they're manipulative villainesses or kind hearted healers or butch soldiers; if they actually have a character, they are fine to me. Same goes for male characters. The other thing I find important is variety. Butch female soldiers are fine and I like them, but the world can't be populated only by those, just as it can't only be populated by damsels in distress or evil bitches. To me personally, some over the top female power fantasy that I like are someone like Lara Croft or Femshep; strong female warriors of some kind.