Final Fantasy 6 and 9 are my least favorite of the older series. Seriously hated them. And 10 would have been so much better if there was no voice acting in it. But we all know the worst Final Fantasy is 13. Just sooooooo bad. Final Fantasy 7 I think has held up very well and still has one of the most customization of magic of any game I have ever played.
FFVII wasn't that good
- Thread starter lordmardok
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As always with anything related to Final Fantasy, your mileage may vary hugely. I'll say that it doesn't live up to its hype as the greatest thing ever put to disc, but I don't think it desrves the backlash it gets either.
It was Square's first attempt at a story that could be more complex than 'that guy's crazy and wants to destroy the world' (before anybody has a go at this point, I'm well aware that each game had sidequests etc. that gave some additional narrative depth but not to the level we saw starting with VII) so they tried to do pretty much everything, meaning they messed up some areas. Part of it was the translation, but also trying to tackle all the environmental, ethical, psychological, interpersonal and metaphysical themes they raised would be difficult for any writer.
The only main characters I'd say you could really call nothing more than shallow stereotypes that had nothing added to them were Barrett being the tough but well meaning black guy, the ever Genki Girl Yuffie and Vincent, your typical overpowered guy with a mysterious past.
The battle mechanics aren't particularly special I'll admit.
Aesthetically I'd say the game works well, and even holds up favourably to today's 'real is brown' crowd. Setting the ugly overworld models aside, the FMVs are a little dated but the pre-rendered backgrounds can be gorgeous and while he's done better individual tracks elsewhere I'd say as a whole the soundtrack is Nobuo Uematsu's best work. Besides, I /really/ dig the whole mixture of Gothic and Cyberpunk design present in upper Shinra and upper Junon.
So yeah, FFVII, doesn't deserve its place on many people's pedastals and does rely on the 'wow factor' it had when many people first saw it (cause it was one of the longest and deepest games ever made at that point) and nostalgia from people who grew up with it or had it as their first FF. But it's by no means a bad game.
I can understand those who prefer the later games in the series where they ironed out a lot of the problems they encountered in VII particularly in regards to narrative clarification and pacing, and those who loved the old school more in terms of simple-yet-effective design and a focus on mastering the mechanics of the game to carry you through each tough encounter. Just please think before you hate on VII or sing its praises to high heavens. Not only did this make Final Fantasy a world recognised super brand, it brought JPRGs from relative obscurity to mainstream attention outside of Japan.
It was Square's first attempt at a story that could be more complex than 'that guy's crazy and wants to destroy the world' (before anybody has a go at this point, I'm well aware that each game had sidequests etc. that gave some additional narrative depth but not to the level we saw starting with VII) so they tried to do pretty much everything, meaning they messed up some areas. Part of it was the translation, but also trying to tackle all the environmental, ethical, psychological, interpersonal and metaphysical themes they raised would be difficult for any writer.
The only main characters I'd say you could really call nothing more than shallow stereotypes that had nothing added to them were Barrett being the tough but well meaning black guy, the ever Genki Girl Yuffie and Vincent, your typical overpowered guy with a mysterious past.
The battle mechanics aren't particularly special I'll admit.
Aesthetically I'd say the game works well, and even holds up favourably to today's 'real is brown' crowd. Setting the ugly overworld models aside, the FMVs are a little dated but the pre-rendered backgrounds can be gorgeous and while he's done better individual tracks elsewhere I'd say as a whole the soundtrack is Nobuo Uematsu's best work. Besides, I /really/ dig the whole mixture of Gothic and Cyberpunk design present in upper Shinra and upper Junon.
So yeah, FFVII, doesn't deserve its place on many people's pedastals and does rely on the 'wow factor' it had when many people first saw it (cause it was one of the longest and deepest games ever made at that point) and nostalgia from people who grew up with it or had it as their first FF. But it's by no means a bad game.
I can understand those who prefer the later games in the series where they ironed out a lot of the problems they encountered in VII particularly in regards to narrative clarification and pacing, and those who loved the old school more in terms of simple-yet-effective design and a focus on mastering the mechanics of the game to carry you through each tough encounter. Just please think before you hate on VII or sing its praises to high heavens. Not only did this make Final Fantasy a world recognised super brand, it brought JPRGs from relative obscurity to mainstream attention outside of Japan.
[quote="Tohuvabohu" post="9.300418.11965639"I thought FF8 was too easy. I thought FF9 was really hard. Other people will surely disagree.
My personal favorite FF from playstation was FF9.[/quote]
Really? Most people would reverse those. But then again if you know how and have the patience to break FFVIII, you can do it hundreds of ways from when you're first handed control. 9's my favourite too, but I'd have said it was one of the easiest in the series.
My personal favorite FF from playstation was FF9.[/quote]
Really? Most people would reverse those. But then again if you know how and have the patience to break FFVIII, you can do it hundreds of ways from when you're first handed control. 9's my favourite too, but I'd have said it was one of the easiest in the series.
Final Fantasy 7 is a -great- game, but I agree it being overrated. All Final Fantasies are great from 1 to 10. There's nothing in Final Fantasy 7 that makes it significantly better than others. Sure it has an interesting bad guy, some of the best music in the series and lots of fun unique things, but so does other Final Fantasies.
Since Sakaguchi (The father of Final Fantasies) left Square, they've just been trying to make more money with FF7 because there are so many fanboys. Spin-offs, movies and all kinds of shit that is NOT needed. Why can't the game stand on its own? Not a single Final Fantasy needs a remake, or a movie, or a spin-off story. But they can't let something that popular die now can they? There's money to be made. If the original creators wants to stop, maybe you should listen to them.
Since Sakaguchi (The father of Final Fantasies) left Square, they've just been trying to make more money with FF7 because there are so many fanboys. Spin-offs, movies and all kinds of shit that is NOT needed. Why can't the game stand on its own? Not a single Final Fantasy needs a remake, or a movie, or a spin-off story. But they can't let something that popular die now can they? There's money to be made. If the original creators wants to stop, maybe you should listen to them.
I can let almost any praise for FFX slip by me, until someone brings up Tidus. Now from what I remembered about Final Fantasy X the story tended to focus more on Yuna and destroying Sin; with very little emphasis on Tidus' role overall. Not that he's allowed to slip by the player of course as he constantly reminds everyone that it's "his story".lordmardok said:
I never found anything at all likeable about him. He's cocky and arrogant at the start of the story (he played for the Zanarkand Abes you know?) and whiny and arrogant by the end of it (after we hear for the umpteenth time how it's all about him). Plus all the crying and whining he does removes any remotely endearing factors from his personality.
At around 3:46 is when I lose all hope for Tidus as a relatable character. He acts like such a kid and this guy is supposed to be the hero of the piece? This is why I'll argue Cloud's case any day. Cloud suffered from a fucked up psychosis and believed he was Zack for a majority of the game, he's got a reason to be angsty; Zack's life was terrible.
But everythig else about FFVII? Yeah it's largely popular because it was the first 3D Final Fantasy, that being said it's probably my favourite for that reason.
hmm I'm not surprised people would say that. I guess I was just a shithead during my playthrough of FF9 and never figured out the obvious "secret" to winning most fights. I just remember at one point and onwards, every single boss in the game had an attack that basically reduced your entire party down to 1hp. Oh and the part when you're prisoners for Kuja or something and he sends you to attack those elemental guardians in groups of two. I remember that part kicking my ass.MightyRabbit said:
Though it's been AGES since I've played FF9. I wonder if I could figure it out and have a much easier time with it if I revisted it... It's tempting to try, but I just have way too many games to play through right now ;( Maybe one day soon.
Personally my favourite is and always has been Final Fantasy IX.
What I always like to ask is when people played their first Final Fantasy game, which one it was, and which one they played next.
For example, I played FFIX, loved it, then played FFVII, it was still a very popular game but this was practically before the internet so it hadn't quite reached the level sof fanboyish nerdom it now holds. In other words, I played FFVII about two years after it was actually released and found it to be fantastic in almost every way. Engaging storyline, interesting characters, gameplay for the time was still pretty unique, and the game felt epic.
A lot of people who criticise FF, especially pre FFX, I find usually played X first, sometime in the early 2000s, so it's no wonder they aren't going to find FFVII quite as good as it was hyped to be. It would be like comparing Metal Gear Solid 2 to MGS1, literally, because FFVII and MGS1 came out in the same year, and MGS2 and FFX came out within a year of each other. And despite the problems with MGS2's storyline, it's hard to deny that there had been significant improvements on the formula.
For another thing, a whole new console had been released between VII and X, along with all the greater limits of what could be achieved, the better understanding of how to tailor games. FFX should have been an upgrade in every single way.
Now, I still hate FFX with a burning passion. It was in fact the game that made me stop playing jRPGs, which had been basically what got me into console gaming in the first place, and I haven't really ever gone back. FFX was so bad it turned me off an entire genre of games, and I've tried others. Mostly when people ask why I just point them at the Spoony Experiment and say 'pretty much that.'
But that's my argument. FFVII hasn't aged well, but then you couldn't expect it to. It was one of the single greatest games ever released for the PlayStation 1, and much as I hate to draw the age card, there will be a lot of gamers decrying FFVII who were barely out of nappies when it was released. Estimating the general age of the Escapist to be around 18-19 means that the majority of people here couldn't have played FFVII around the time it was released, since you would only have been three to five, and maybe it's only nostalgia talking, but remembering the game as the groundbreaking masterpiece it was is important.
What I always like to ask is when people played their first Final Fantasy game, which one it was, and which one they played next.
For example, I played FFIX, loved it, then played FFVII, it was still a very popular game but this was practically before the internet so it hadn't quite reached the level sof fanboyish nerdom it now holds. In other words, I played FFVII about two years after it was actually released and found it to be fantastic in almost every way. Engaging storyline, interesting characters, gameplay for the time was still pretty unique, and the game felt epic.
A lot of people who criticise FF, especially pre FFX, I find usually played X first, sometime in the early 2000s, so it's no wonder they aren't going to find FFVII quite as good as it was hyped to be. It would be like comparing Metal Gear Solid 2 to MGS1, literally, because FFVII and MGS1 came out in the same year, and MGS2 and FFX came out within a year of each other. And despite the problems with MGS2's storyline, it's hard to deny that there had been significant improvements on the formula.
For another thing, a whole new console had been released between VII and X, along with all the greater limits of what could be achieved, the better understanding of how to tailor games. FFX should have been an upgrade in every single way.
Now, I still hate FFX with a burning passion. It was in fact the game that made me stop playing jRPGs, which had been basically what got me into console gaming in the first place, and I haven't really ever gone back. FFX was so bad it turned me off an entire genre of games, and I've tried others. Mostly when people ask why I just point them at the Spoony Experiment and say 'pretty much that.'
But that's my argument. FFVII hasn't aged well, but then you couldn't expect it to. It was one of the single greatest games ever released for the PlayStation 1, and much as I hate to draw the age card, there will be a lot of gamers decrying FFVII who were barely out of nappies when it was released. Estimating the general age of the Escapist to be around 18-19 means that the majority of people here couldn't have played FFVII around the time it was released, since you would only have been three to five, and maybe it's only nostalgia talking, but remembering the game as the groundbreaking masterpiece it was is important.
I loved final fantasy 7 so I guess I should tell you what I loved about it.
The storyline; I thought the way the ecological storyline (which was very topical at the time) with Shinra's experimentation and Cloud's personal storyline was really effective. The characters actually made me care about them and Tifa's unrequited affection for Cloud was very heartrenching for me. Barret and his little girl and even Cait Sith's espionage got me involved with the story.
The only character I didn't like was Aerith, she seemed kind of full of herself to me but maybe that's becuase I was on team Tifa.
The gameplay: The Materia system was amazing and really made that game stand out. Being able to develop your powers then mix and match was awesome fun and the 'mega upgrade' choice of whather you give up your fully powered Fire materia for an Ultimate ability (was it meteor? can't remeber) made it really interesting to me. The fact they did it in a way where you had to work for it. ie. The rocket sequence made it even greater.
The exploration was really top notch, the chocobo system meant that it was somthing you had to work for and the chocobo racing meant that it wasn't just a superficial thing you actually got to use your choco breeding prowess as part of the gameplay as well as cruising the map. The mini games were a bit of fun too
The GF's were really fun and added alot of excitement to the game as you could find hidden ones as well as being a nod to the older games which I apprieciated.
The lack of exploration of Final Fantasy X upwards just really can't compete with this involving world with it's secrets and ways to make it personal to you. The average player could finish the game but the determined player could achieve alot more.
Personally my favourite game is Final Fantasy 9 but these are some of the reasons why I liked FF7 as a 15 year old girl.
Oh the cutscenes were nice too. I guess.
For me the only thing that saved Final Fantasy X was the characters (and still..Tidus ><) the rest of the game was meh.
The storyline; I thought the way the ecological storyline (which was very topical at the time) with Shinra's experimentation and Cloud's personal storyline was really effective. The characters actually made me care about them and Tifa's unrequited affection for Cloud was very heartrenching for me. Barret and his little girl and even Cait Sith's espionage got me involved with the story.
The only character I didn't like was Aerith, she seemed kind of full of herself to me but maybe that's becuase I was on team Tifa.
The gameplay: The Materia system was amazing and really made that game stand out. Being able to develop your powers then mix and match was awesome fun and the 'mega upgrade' choice of whather you give up your fully powered Fire materia for an Ultimate ability (was it meteor? can't remeber) made it really interesting to me. The fact they did it in a way where you had to work for it. ie. The rocket sequence made it even greater.
The exploration was really top notch, the chocobo system meant that it was somthing you had to work for and the chocobo racing meant that it wasn't just a superficial thing you actually got to use your choco breeding prowess as part of the gameplay as well as cruising the map. The mini games were a bit of fun too
The GF's were really fun and added alot of excitement to the game as you could find hidden ones as well as being a nod to the older games which I apprieciated.
The lack of exploration of Final Fantasy X upwards just really can't compete with this involving world with it's secrets and ways to make it personal to you. The average player could finish the game but the determined player could achieve alot more.
Personally my favourite game is Final Fantasy 9 but these are some of the reasons why I liked FF7 as a 15 year old girl
. Oh the cutscenes were nice too. I guess.
For me the only thing that saved Final Fantasy X was the characters (and still..Tidus ><) the rest of the game was meh.
Final Fanatasy VII was a pretty damn good game. Not sure it deserves it's near legendary status. It's full of story breaking filler, some frustratingly bad world design (so hard to tell if that's a door or not without those stupid arrows...) and some unessisarily clunky controls in the mini-games. The world design and clunky controls issues can be kinda put aside because of the age of the game, but the sheer amount of filler that never really seems to contribute to the plot definatly breaks immersion.
If you're asking me is the game bad, never.
Is the game horribly and painfully dated for anyone who's not looking at it through nostalgia vision? Why yes, yes it is.
It's not about condeming it though. FFVII developed the JRPG genre and has inspired two generations of JRPGs so far. You can't write it off, but I know I'm never going to try and force it on a kid brother or something, because the world has moved on. Beyond a history lesson, FFVII has nothing to teach us that we wouldn't learn better from many of the last generation's RPGs and some of the current gens. Like OP, I'll cite FFX as an example.
If you're asking me is the game bad, never.
Is the game horribly and painfully dated for anyone who's not looking at it through nostalgia vision? Why yes, yes it is.
It's not about condeming it though. FFVII developed the JRPG genre and has inspired two generations of JRPGs so far. You can't write it off, but I know I'm never going to try and force it on a kid brother or something, because the world has moved on. Beyond a history lesson, FFVII has nothing to teach us that we wouldn't learn better from many of the last generation's RPGs and some of the current gens. Like OP, I'll cite FFX as an example.
A) I don't see why people still think anyone cares about their opinion of FFVII, by this point everything that CAN be said about the game HAS been said and it's beyond redundant.
B)
B)
This statement made me wanna laugh in your face. I'm sorry but that's pretty arrogant of you to say. I could just as easily say that "People like you sure like to pretend that FFVII wasn't the best JRPG ever." It's not up to you or anyone else to decide what opinion is right and what is wrong/pretend/make-believe/fantasy(no pun intended)/etc. FFVII along with any other game is only as good/bad as each individual thinks it is, if some people wanna think that a certain game is the best ever then that's their decision and no-one has the right to say they're wrong. They will anyway but it's just their own opinion and whether they like it or not it will never equal truth.lordmardok said:
Wait, what? Now its plenty arguable about how well developed the characters are (they're hit and miss in my opinion). Hell, it took over 10 years and a spin-off game (Crisis Core) to give even Sephiroth any real characterization. But forgettable? I don't know, but somehow the idea that these are some of the most popular characters in video games (Cloud and Sephiroth seem to make it onto every greatest hero/villian list - whether they deserve or not isn't the point - and that you can't take 2 steps in a convention even today without running into a FF7 cosplay group) make me think that forgettable isn't the right word for it, no matter how much you want that to be true.Chibz said:Because... almost nothing about FF7 is particularly well done. From visuals (ugly for its time) to characters (under developed and forgettable) to the basic cluster fuck that is the attempt at narrative at it.Bobby_D said:
Going to put this in for the sake of it, but Sephiroth is a failure-villain. Especially compared to THIS guy.
As guy in video said. "Crazy mother fucker. Destroys the world, half way through the game."
That being said, I'm right there with you that Kefka is the better villian. Gotta love that crazy-ass bastard.
xXDeMoNiCXx said:
Somewhat off topic; I personally don't like it whenever anyone touts anything as "best ____ ever". It's never a fact, it's only an opinion. It's what that person thinks. And that's fine.
But it's whenever anyone says that exact phrase about anything is when the arguments begin. If someone is implying something as "best", they usually do so to elevate it above simple taste or preference into a fact, thinking anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
If someone says Final Fantasy is the "best rpg ever". And I disagree and say that I thought Baldur's Gate was a better RPG, that person just might think I'm full of shit and start arguing because I don't agree with them.
I prefer people to use the term "most favorite". Of course this isn't exclusive to FF7 at all and happens all over the place (it's especially how most fanboy dipshits start fights over favorite/preferred consoles). I think of it here because of how many fans the game has and how "fans" in general think their devoting their fanhood to the indisputable "best ____ ever".
But it's whenever anyone says that exact phrase about anything is when the arguments begin. If someone is implying something as "best", they usually do so to elevate it above simple taste or preference into a fact, thinking anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
If someone says Final Fantasy is the "best rpg ever". And I disagree and say that I thought Baldur's Gate was a better RPG, that person just might think I'm full of shit and start arguing because I don't agree with them.
I prefer people to use the term "most favorite". Of course this isn't exclusive to FF7 at all and happens all over the place (it's especially how most fanboy dipshits start fights over favorite/preferred consoles). I think of it here because of how many fans the game has and how "fans" in general think their devoting their fanhood to the indisputable "best ____ ever".
Eh I dunno. I played the game back in 97 when it came out and I thought it was an eyesore back then too.s69-5 said:
From a purely visual standpoint, I thought Crash Bandicoot looked alot better. I played it again recently, and I think it still looks quite good.
I may have been young when it came out, but I went back and revisited every FF game throughout every generation as the years went by. Played it when I first got it, played it when I got my dreamcast, played it when I got my PS2, etc. And I still do not see what you are apparently seeing.
I just think it's an alright game, nothing too special, that I personally wouldn't regard so high. Sorry that's just the way I look at it.
I feel that a game is great if you can play it years after it was made and still find it really enjoyable. I tried to play Final fantasy 7 again reciently and I just couldnt do it. The graphics are horrid and (I felt) the plot line wasnt much better. Now I feel that the all time best final fantasy was the one before 7. Final fantasy 6 is absolutly amazing. I still play it every couple of years and just cant get enough.
The Materia system in FF7 is/was a rather large gripe of mine, I'm in agreement with you that it was one of the best systems we've had, but it was too good... I know it sounds strange but hear me outs69-5 said:
In FF7 you could customise it to your hearts content with any character so what would happen is that you had the possibility to nullify any weakness a character had, which essentially made all the characters stock models for the magic system, the only differentiator in terms of choosing a character for fights became "what's my favourite limit break?, guess I'll take Cloud and Vincent then!, Yuffie, BACK IN YOUR BOX!"
Because of the above the only fight I had trouble with was Ruby, Emerald would have been tough I guess but I came across it when I had Clouds lucky 7's (having 7777 hit points made him spam Omnislash IIRC).