i take it this is your 1st final fantasy game, they all have moments that leave you thinking "wtf?"Brotherofwill said:
it's just something you will get used to
Final Schmantasy 13
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it's just something you will get used to
Vanille is irritating, but I really like the rest of the characters. I especially like the conflict caused by the violent collision of Snow's "I can do anything, and I will, because I promised!" mentality and Lightning's more pessimistic view of things. It creates a very interesting tension that does not normally accompany Snow's character archetype.
And Sazh has a baby chocobo living in his afro.That. Is. Awesome.
And Sazh has a baby chocobo living in his afro.That. Is. Awesome.
I find it really interesting how people, (particularly males) perceive the flawed female protagonist. It seems to me there continues to be an underlying thread of sexism in the gaming population, and while it doesn?t surprise me at all, it is curious and worth of note.
The last two Final Fantasy games have both featured a very strong, but flawed female lead. In the case of XII It was Ashe ? a dethroned monarch, noble, but power hungry, and willing to do nearly anything to see her nation restored. She was disinterested in romance, having lost her husband, and only sort of put up with Vaan and Penlo to the extent that they had something to offer her in terms of support on her quest. For much of the game, Vaan and Penelo were kids, tagging along with the grownups, and only included as much as they were useful.
In XIII Lightning is (so far as I?ve gotten) a very driven, but very grounded character. She?s been dealt a bad hand, her sister has been (as far as she?s concerned) killed, and she clearly blames herself for that (though she directs much of that anger at Snow [though only when he?s talking about how he can fix everything and essentially rubbing in Lighning?s failure]). She is aware of the situation, powerful, and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. She?s in the moment to be sure ? thinking less about how to make everything better, and more about how to survive the present ordeal, but she?s the party?s tie to reality, she?s not off in space thinking about how she can be the hero; she is very aware that as far as anyone outside the party is concerned they are public enemy #1 and that is the most pressing concern.
Both of these characters are complex, interesting, flawed, and believable. And both were taken by the gaming audience at large to be ?total bitches?.
I think this is a phenomenon worthy of note and consideration. Particularly since I think the perception of the characters would flip entirely into the positive if Lightning were a man.
For Example:
If they were both guys, the ?she isn?t protected now, is she? line would have been eseen entirely differently. It wouldn?t be ?No one can save her, and I blame you for what happened because I?m a *****? it would be ?back the fuck off, If anyone?s going to save her it?s going to be me, if you want to come along for the ride, feel free?. In the hands of a male, that scene is powerful, proactive and assertive. In the hands of a female it?s perceived as domineering, irrational and bitchy.
Is that fair? I really don?t think so. The implication that Lighting wants to be in control is clearly there in that scene, and the subtext of the scene is clearly the second scenario ? but because she?s a woman it?s much more emotionally complex, it?s not just two dudes and their conflicting machismo.
-m
The last two Final Fantasy games have both featured a very strong, but flawed female lead. In the case of XII It was Ashe ? a dethroned monarch, noble, but power hungry, and willing to do nearly anything to see her nation restored. She was disinterested in romance, having lost her husband, and only sort of put up with Vaan and Penlo to the extent that they had something to offer her in terms of support on her quest. For much of the game, Vaan and Penelo were kids, tagging along with the grownups, and only included as much as they were useful.
In XIII Lightning is (so far as I?ve gotten) a very driven, but very grounded character. She?s been dealt a bad hand, her sister has been (as far as she?s concerned) killed, and she clearly blames herself for that (though she directs much of that anger at Snow [though only when he?s talking about how he can fix everything and essentially rubbing in Lighning?s failure]). She is aware of the situation, powerful, and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. She?s in the moment to be sure ? thinking less about how to make everything better, and more about how to survive the present ordeal, but she?s the party?s tie to reality, she?s not off in space thinking about how she can be the hero; she is very aware that as far as anyone outside the party is concerned they are public enemy #1 and that is the most pressing concern.
Both of these characters are complex, interesting, flawed, and believable. And both were taken by the gaming audience at large to be ?total bitches?.
I think this is a phenomenon worthy of note and consideration. Particularly since I think the perception of the characters would flip entirely into the positive if Lightning were a man.
For Example:
I get the feeling that the scene in chapter 3 would have been interpreted differently if both characters had been guys. People seem to be taking it as lightning being a giant ***** to snow ? but consider the context. Lightning is a soldier and powerful fighter. She was unable to save her sister. Then some untrained upstart comes along and talks about how he?s going to save her and bring her back. Lightning sees this as an insult. TI?s not about him saving her sister, it?s about the fact that she never expected snow to be able to protect her, and she hates the fact that she herself couldn?t. She can?t see any way that she could possibly undo what?s been done, and snow claiming that he will is, to her, an impossibility.SnootyEnglishman said:
If they were both guys, the ?she isn?t protected now, is she? line would have been eseen entirely differently. It wouldn?t be ?No one can save her, and I blame you for what happened because I?m a *****? it would be ?back the fuck off, If anyone?s going to save her it?s going to be me, if you want to come along for the ride, feel free?. In the hands of a male, that scene is powerful, proactive and assertive. In the hands of a female it?s perceived as domineering, irrational and bitchy.
Is that fair? I really don?t think so. The implication that Lighting wants to be in control is clearly there in that scene, and the subtext of the scene is clearly the second scenario ? but because she?s a woman it?s much more emotionally complex, it?s not just two dudes and their conflicting machismo.
Mr. Funk here is quite right ? there is a lot of Cloud in Lightning, and she is harsh (as was cloud) ? but there?s an underlying complexity in both characters. In Cloud, that was a positive. In Lightning people seem to be just overlooking it and writing her off.John Funk said:
Christemo said:
Quiet Stranger said:
Like, really guys? Are we not beyond this when it comes to more complex, imperfect female characters?Sylveria said:
-m
I definitely see where you're coming from here, and I do think there's a huge double standard where Male Antihero is seen as "cool and edgy" where as his Female Antihero Counterpart is just seen as "a *****."Matt_LRR said:
I'm just going to disagree that they were good qualities in Cloud.
I hated Cloud, which is why I'm not so fond that Lightning gives me the same vibe as him.
That's totally fair. I was talking general perception anyhow.John Funk said:I definitely see where you're coming from here, and I do think there's a huge double standard where Male Antihero is seen as "cool and edgy" where as his Female Antihero Counterpart is just seen as "a *****."Matt_LRR said:
I'm just going to disagree that they were good qualities in Cloud.
-m
The game isn't THAT japanese. Vanille and Hope are stock anime characters - the silly genki girl, and the simpering loser who eventually takes a level in badass and stops being such a pussy.
Fun drinking game. Take a shot every time Lightning punches someone. Take two when she punches Snow.
So far I like all the characters, though Snow and Hope irk me from time to time. I hope for the day FF no longer has tack on kid characters.
What I do like though is the character design, which is far less ludicrous, belty, and metrosexual then other titles in the series. I especially love Sazh's character design. And Sazh. Did I mention I like Sazh?
Fun drinking game. Take a shot every time Lightning punches someone. Take two when she punches Snow.
I agree with Matt_LRR. Also, Lightning isn't just cloud with boobies, Lightning is Cloud with ACTUAL CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Those old FF7 characters were all pretty 1 dimensional in comparison.John Funk said:I definitely see where you're coming from here, and I do think there's a huge double standard where Male Antihero is seen as "cool and edgy" where as his Female Antihero Counterpart is just seen as "a *****."Matt_LRR said:
I'm just going to disagree that they were good qualities in Cloud.
So far I like all the characters, though Snow and Hope irk me from time to time. I hope for the day FF no longer has tack on kid characters.
What I do like though is the character design, which is far less ludicrous, belty, and metrosexual then other titles in the series. I especially love Sazh's character design. And Sazh. Did I mention I like Sazh?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.Zenn3k said:
Well, I'm 2 hours and 45 minutes in, and I already hope that Hope dies a horrific death. He literally whines over absolutely nothing: for example, when they wake up at the frozen lake, and he shrieks "LEAVE ME ALONE!!" even though not one of them uttered a word directly to him. Gah.
I quite like Vanille, in a perky kind of way. I'm not too fond of Lightning, though, she seems stereotypically cold-hearted and it doesn't really work for me. Snow's alright, though. As for Sazh, don't dislike him, but don't particularly have a fondness for him, either. None of the characters have really grown on me, to be honest, but I'm not that far in, maybe when I get further ahead they'll start having an impact.
Well, so far I have to say I like Sazh and Snow (whenever he shuts his gob about a certain heroic subject) the most so far. Vanille, well I don't hate her, but there isn't much to particularily like either. Lightning at the start I was apprehensive, but she grew on me after the 5 hour mark. Hope is very realistic, think about it, if you were 15, mother killed before your eyes and turned into Public Enemy #1 shortly afterwards while receiving a curse which let's you choose between turning a monster or 'oooh pwetty coffin of death' you'd react the same way.
I don't really like Sazh because of his humourisms but more because he is someone I can actually relate too. I've played for about 15 hours now, and he had to make the toughest deciscions so far in my opinion, the way he handles those really impressed me.
I find it interesting nobody mentioned Fang yet? Is it because most people aren't at that point in the game yet? Or just because she's just unappealing and overlooked by most people?
Edit: And am I the only one amused by all the grunting and moaning going on in the cutscenes? It happened on multiple ocassions that I wasen't sure if I was watching a cutscene of Final Fantasy or my web browser switched to some Erotic German S&M site.
I don't really like Sazh because of his humourisms but more because he is someone I can actually relate too. I've played for about 15 hours now, and he had to make the toughest deciscions so far in my opinion, the way he handles those really impressed me.
I find it interesting nobody mentioned Fang yet? Is it because most people aren't at that point in the game yet? Or just because she's just unappealing and overlooked by most people?
Edit: And am I the only one amused by all the grunting and moaning going on in the cutscenes? It happened on multiple ocassions that I wasen't sure if I was watching a cutscene of Final Fantasy or my web browser switched to some Erotic German S&M site.
Everyone can say what they want about the characters(good and bad points etc.)but goddammit as far as I'm concerned these are some of the most "characteristic" characters there's been in a Final Fantasy game.
And yes Hope is a whiney little prick but he's starting to toughen up....dare I say I'm starting to warm to him a little.
And yes Hope is a whiney little prick but he's starting to toughen up....dare I say I'm starting to warm to him a little.
Probably. FFXIII did much the same thing. Every major location featured a different Commonwealth accent.TsunamiWombat said:
Dalmasca was canadian, and I don't remember which was which otherwise, but there were Australian, south african and english accents by city as well.
-m
I think it's quite funny how snow is over the top IM THE MOTHER F***ING HERO. But meh I like him.
No I mean, WHICH? Clearly they've got an island commonwealth accent. It sounds Kiwi, but my untrained ear can't say for sure.Matt_LRR said:
The sexualization of Vanille is kind of creepy... She's legal right? please tell me she's legal.
I enjoy Sazh, Vanelle is pretty cool, Snow is awesome.
Hope can go die in a fire, and Lightning is a frigid *****. Honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Vaan now. Sure, he didn't know what the hell was going on, but at least he had some fun with it. Keep in mind that I ended that game ~70ish and he was languishing about lvl 9.
Hope can go die in a fire, and Lightning is a frigid *****. Honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss Vaan now. Sure, he didn't know what the hell was going on, but at least he had some fun with it. Keep in mind that I ended that game ~70ish and he was languishing about lvl 9.
Sazh is by far the best supporting character in a FF game so far. Theres just so much to his character, and backstory. Starts out as "the funny black guy", then after about an hour you realise he's this well-thought-out, determined father figure with a big ghost on his back.
Lightening is also a fantastic character, the entire scene of her aquiring Odin (cutscene prior and after fight) is just fantastic. The way she genuinely seems to be on the verge of breaking down at the realisation of the gravity of the situation along with how she's been acting to her fellow L'Cie (who are all victims of their fate, just like her).
Lightening is also a fantastic character, the entire scene of her aquiring Odin (cutscene prior and after fight) is just fantastic. The way she genuinely seems to be on the verge of breaking down at the realisation of the gravity of the situation along with how she's been acting to her fellow L'Cie (who are all victims of their fate, just like her).