Gamers are Killing the Games Industry

[Katana314]

Back when I pirated games, I fully agree I would steal first, then find the justification later. If you have some reason not to want a game, then don't get it any which way. You want your message heard? Politely E-mail the company that you would get the game, but are just too worried about SecuROM's effects on your computer.

I know for a lot of people it's difficult to see through the business decisions these companies make without seeing them as fat, greedy cats. Keep in mind a number of factors;
1. It is very difficult to judge how fun people will find a game, especially when all you get is a sheet of paper describing it and your degree is in business.
2. These people do sort of have to 'make ends meet' but on a very wide scale. Revenue drops over the course of a year doesn't sound like a lot, but it's much more short-term when people summarize entire quarters in a spreadsheet.
3. They do have stockholders they have to keep pleased. Heck, maybe the top guy of EA is actually really nice and hates piracy, but the stockholders hear 'piracy' and remember reading about 'DRM' and decide on it then and there. I could be over-summarizing, but it's still possible.
4. 80% of games are complete failures you never hear about. Even kinda-good games like Mount and Blade sort of technically fit in the remaining 20%.

Publishers make a lot of dumb moves, but don't throw any more than half the blame on them. Think positive; don't trash down the games you DON'T want to see succeed, but support the ones you do want.

 

[cuzant]

DRM is just an excuse. People find it to be a convenient way to rationalize their theft.
Even if there was no DRM at all, people would find ways to argue that what they are doing is justified. Game piracy, along with music and video piracy back in the day, is just a fact of media based entertainment and it will always be there and there will always be people who abuse it

And there lies the inherent problem with DRM for me, people will always want to pirate games for whatever reason. ( I don't get it, apart from the money aspect, its actually quicker for me to walk 2 minutes to the local game shop, or take a metro to town than it is to download a new release) And because people like to pirate games they will nearly always find a way around copy protection. The intrusive DRM hurts paying customers more.

And as for the problem as a whole, i'm not sure what the full solution could be, even steam games have disc copies which i'm sure could be cirulated somehow. One thing I do know is that limited installs, 5 CD keys, having to put the CD in everytime you play the game and not installing if a virtual disk drive is around is most certainly not the way forward.

 

[x0ny]

I haven't bought a hard copy PC game for a while. Bioshock 1 was the last one, and that had a slight DRM issue saying my CD key wasn't valid. I don't know what the situation is right now, but according to you guys, it's pretty bad.

During Christmas I saw L4D2 in HMV, So if someone bought that game, would they be able to bypass the DRM problems if they activated the game via Steam? And also with Borderlands?

 

[Flames66]

It's simple business. The pirates offer a better product for a cheaper price.

 

[Plurralbles]

I haven't bought a hard copy PC game for a while. Bioshock 1 was the last one, and that had a slight DRM issue saying my CD key wasn't valid. I don't know what the situation is right now, but according to you guys, it's pretty bad.

During Christmas I saw L4D2 in HMV, So if someone bought that game, would they be able to bypass the DRM problems if they activated the game via Steam? And also with Borderlands?

My bioshock did that for a few moments too but it got out alright. Too bad after that mini-hassle my computer is actually too slow to play it... grr. Ohwell. If it was up to Bioshock's level of DRM I wouldn't mind or care. It actually makes sense.

I love iron clad and whoever the publisher was. You know why? Because other than having a shitty gaming site thingy that constantly reminds you to get the expansion, installed on your computer, you can play it CD-free. Sins of a Solar empire

 

[Flames66]

It's a strange reversal when you are less likely to get spyware from a torrent site.

 

[bassdrum]

I've never pirated a game or music (I don't write that just to look good, I really haven't). I feel that, in my position as a musician, as well as someone who is toying with the idea of producing games for a living, it would be hypocritical to steal the work of my fellow artists.

Also, (and if I just missed someone else missing this point elsewhere, my apologies), gamers are also responsible for the stagnation of the gaming industry. As much as the upcoming Heavy Rain is turning out to be a critical success, I fully expect it to sell only a handful of copies--those on this site (and our fellow serious gamers) will at least notice it, but I don't see the mainstream consumer, i.e. the high school boy who plays Halo 3 every couple of weeks, is going to even notice its existence. That makes me sad, because I want to see the gaming industry expand into a mature storytelling medium in the manner of film, and Heavy Rain would be a critical step in the right direction. We are also accountable for the deluge of sequels and lack of compelling new IPs. Remember BG&E? Psychonauts? Those games were killed because we refused to give them the chance they deserved. Yes, they've achieved a cult status now (and all too many gamers wear them as a badge of honor now, in my opinion), but the future of BG&E is uncertain, as the announced sequel is in limbo at the moment.

So, in short, gamers are all too content to play games with big explosions and incoherent stories (I'm looking at YOU, Infinity Ward). Games like BioShock are a good sign, as gamers are embracing a franchise built on a fantastic story filled with literary references and Politics 101, but an overall unwillingness to move to more mature themes in games is going to leave the industry as something about which the mainstream news stations remain clueless, a toy and nothing more.

EDIT: Sorry about the rant, this is a topic I feel particularly strongly about (if you couldn't tell).

 

[I_B_Ready]

It's simple business. The pirates offer a better product for a cheaper price.

a simple business? last time I checked the product pirates 'sell' is illegal for them to distribute.

this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

Both gamers and developers are contributing to the problem..on the gamers end we have those who pirate games because they don't want to pay..and because of that the developers and publishers are forced to up security to prevent this type of thing.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I've never pirated a game or music (I don't write that just to look good, I really haven't). I feel that, in my position as a musician, as well as someone who is toying with the idea of producing games for a living, it would be hypocritical to steal the work of my fellow artists.

Also, (and if I just missed someone else missing this point elsewhere, my apologies), gamers are also responsible for the stagnation of the gaming industry. As much as the upcoming Heavy Rain is turning out to be a critical success, I fully expect it to sell only a handful of copies--those on this site (and our fellow serious gamers) will at least notice it, but I don't see the mainstream consumer, i.e. the high school boy who plays Halo 3 every couple of weeks, is going to even notice its existence. That makes me sad, because I want to see the gaming industry expand into a mature storytelling medium in the manner of film, and Heavy Rain would be a critical step in the right direction. We are also accountable for the deluge of sequels and lack of compelling new IPs. Remember BG&E? Psychonauts? Those games were killed because we refused to give them the chance they deserved. Yes, they've achieved a cult status now (and all too many gamers wear them as a badge of honor now, in my opinion), but the future of BG&E is uncertain, as the announced sequel is in limbo at the moment.

So, in short, gamers are all too content to play games with big explosions and incoherent stories (I'm looking at YOU, Infinity Ward). Games like BioShock are a good sign, as gamers are embracing a franchise built on a fantastic story filled with literary references and Politics 101, but an overall unwillingness to move to more mature themes in games is going to leave the industry as something about which the mainstream news stations remain clueless, a toy and nothing more.

EDIT: Sorry about the rant, this is a topic I feel particularly strongly about (if you couldn't tell).

Sometimes good artistic games are killed by other reasons than JUST "dumb Halo 3 college frat idiot didn't buy it." Stranger's Wrath got an 88/100 Metacritic score and the sales were so bad it effectively killed the franchise. At first glance you might do the standard "you didn't buy it, you dumb college morons!" reaction bit, but dig a bit deeper and you find that M$ had absolutely no confidence in the title and ran slim to no advertising or marketing at/prior to the release.

Again, it's easy to blame the consumer, but there if I may take a quote from The Wire here:

"I think you need a lot of background context to seriously examine anything."

I think it went something like that. Can't remember who said it. Anyway, point is, there's usually no one reason for why anything is the way it is. In history and especially in capitalism, it's a combination of factors.

 

[bassdrum]

As much as the upcoming Heavy Rain is turning out to be a critical success, I fully expect it to sell only a handful of copies--those on this site (and our fellow serious gamers) will at least notice it, but I don't see the mainstream consumer, i.e. the high school boy who plays Halo 3 every couple of weeks, is going to even notice its existence. That makes me sad, because I want to see the gaming industry expand into a mature storytelling medium in the manner of film, and Heavy Rain would be a critical step in the right direction. We are also accountable for the deluge of sequels and lack of compelling new IPs. Remember BG&E? Psychonauts? Those games were killed because we refused to give them the chance they deserved. Yes, they've achieved a cult status now (and all too many gamers wear them as a badge of honor now, in my opinion), but the future of BG&E is uncertain, as the announced sequel is in limbo at the moment.

Sometimes good artistic games are killed by other reasons than JUST "dumb Halo 3 college frat idiot didn't buy it." Stranger's Wrath got an 88/100 Metacritic score and the sales were so bad it effectively killed the franchise. At first glance you might do the standard "you didn't buy it, you dumb college morons!" reaction bit, but dig a bit deeper and you find that M$ had absolutely no confidence in the title and ran slim to no advertising or marketing at/prior to the release.

Again, it's easy to blame the consumer, but there if I may take a quote from The Wire here:

"I think you need a lot of background context to seriously examine anything."

I think it went something like that. Can't remember who said it. Anyway, point is, there's usually no one reason for why anything is the way it is. In history and especially in capitalism, it's a combination of factors.

True. However, the only reason Microsoft would doubt its product would be because it didn't think the product would sell. I agree that gamers aren't the only ones responsible here, but its a cycle which just feeds off of itself as fewer companies are willing to pour money into the risky IPs (which results in them not turning out as well as they could have), which results in them not being as well advertised, which means fewer people buy them... and it continues like that. I understand that this is just one factor--the economy doesn't help, for example--but it certainly is a big one.

 

[Shadowkire]

I admit that in this economy pirating is causing problems, mostly because the people who use pirating as free game rental no longer have the money to buy the games they find good.

Otherwise pirating is good, it does what the game companies are supposed to do for each other: provide competition. I know that one game may cause another game's sells to drop but ultimately gamers will eventually get their hands on all the games that they think they will enjoy. Because of this games only compete for big release sales, and as such game companies develope their games not for quality but for show, good graphics, good sound, a bunch of flashy colorful in-game gimmicks, and a few cutscene clips that look really cool for the commercials.

Pirating creates the competition that forces(or will force) the gaming companies to make quality games that are a joy to play such that people would prefer to actually own a copy.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

It's simple business. The pirates offer a better product for a cheaper price.

a simple business? last time I checked the product pirates 'sell' is illegal for them to distribute.

this is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.

Try stepping off the high horse and examining this genuinely, then. Because as warped as it is, things like what's "right" and "wrong" don't enter into consumerism. People want something and it's available free, what do you honestly think they're gonna do? AND if it's a better version of what's being sold? I've said this before, but we need to get real about this situation here. If publishers don't start treating pirates like the competition and working to give consumers a reason to go with their product, more and more studios will go under from losing money. More oppressive DRM just makes the problem worse.

It's not as simple as ranting about how piracy is evil, or telling everyone to stop pirating. Even if pirating video games was approached the way dealing coke is here in the US, it wouldn't mean jack for piracy as a whole. Piracy is a WORLDWIDE enterprise. NOBODY is stopping this without a one-world government and 24/7 surveillance of every human with Internet access on the planet, the economies of entire COUNTRIES are currently being boosted quite a bit by this piracy. Game companies need to understand this sooner rather than later and adapt to it. So far Valve seem to be leading the pack in that regard.

Some nice fellow insinuated lowering prices wouldn't work because there's not much difference between $50 and $40. There's not. I'm saying games need to go down to around 20-30 bucks, new. At least while the economy is real bad over here. And you know what? Maybe that means you DON'T hire Ron Perlman or Tom Hanks to voice act your game. Maybe your game doesn't have the latest mind-exploding visuals. But you know what? If it is fun to play and priced reasonably, people will buy. And you will make money (with reduced costs you'll probably make up easily in volume for your price cut). And your average gamer would probably rather pay $10 to own a game than take the time to torrent it. When a game gets cheap enough, pirating can effectively act as free publicity for a game.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I've been a long time reader of the forum, suppose i have to start posting sometime. So DRM then...

Does anyone else not think it's pretty awful business sense from these big game companies? Surely the point of DRM is to stop people who have pirated from playing and to leave those who have paid to play in peace? It seems to do exactly the opposite in most cases (Steam being the only system i can think of that actually achieves this). Paying customers at best get minorly inconvenienced and at worst can't play the game they have just spent their hard earned, whereas people who didn't pay have no real problems.

I think if the game companies want to cut piracy numbers they should switch to steam-esque systems, or something else non-invasive for paying customers. At the very least it would mean the people who still pirated can't claim DRM drove them to it, and would have to admit they just don't want to pay for the product.

Oh yeah, and more demos while they are at it, it's quite nice to actually know what i'm buying rather than having to read a bunch of reviews.

Apologies for a double post if it occurs

Steam is an excellent system. It gives me all the convenience I could want, at generally cheaper than retail prices (no to mention the astonishing Weekend Deals that crop op to sell games for pennies on the dollar), I can install them wherever I want, I don't have to deal with any third party DRM fuckery.

On the other hand, what would not be good is each publisher making their own Steam. They will inevitably do it wrong, and make it a pain in the ass to use.

I think more than anything it's the prices that make Steam a success. I mean, they have prices and convenience on their side, and that's about it (real copies are still superior to digital in my book). So it's gotta be one of those two things that's the key to beating piracy, maybe both. But yeah, Steam is a great DRM success story.

True. However, the only reason Microsoft would doubt its product would be because it didn't think the product would sell. I agree that gamers aren't the only ones responsible here, but its a cycle which just feeds off of itself as fewer companies are willing to pour money into the risky IPs (which results in them not turning out as well as they could have), which results in them not being as well advertised, which means fewer people buy them... and it continues like that. I understand that this is just one factor--the economy doesn't help, for example--but it certainly is a big one.

Sure, I don't disagree with that. Piracy, if nothing else, contributes to the presence of oppressive DRM in games, with contributes to sales, which then gets the pirates blamed (they are partly to blame, no question), which then gets the consumer blamed for the failure of the game.

But lately I've come to realize the blame game we've been playing with pirates and companies have been playing with gamers and pirates isn't addressing how to fix the problem. Ranting is all well and good, but I think it's important for developers to sit down and say, "Okay, this problem isn't going away. It can be punished, but it's never truly going to stop because this is a global market now. We need to adapt to this new environment in a way that gives us the most money and largest number of returning customers. We need to build positive brand recognition by combining good games, good prices and rewards for honest customers so we can combat this new competition."

Because I mean, there's good and bad cycles that can arise from piracy. Valve aren't just selling their own games on Steam-they've become a middleman for a bunch of other companies, too. In a way they've actually benefited from piracy.

 

[Aralias]

I honestly don't think I've actually logged into this forum in quite some time, but this is a topic I feel strongly enough about that I think I need to put my two cents in. I'm a lifelong gamer... been playing games since I was very young. I started off on the Commodore 64, to give some perspective here. While I went through a brief period of piracy in high school (primarily emulation), I've always been quite aware that it was wrong and I shouldn't be doing such a thing. I took advantage, but I don't support it.

Now, that's just the background. I've literally spent thousands of dollars legitimately on retail games. It has been my primary hobby for my entire life. I've never felt so betrayed, however, as I have by some of the DRM that has been showing up lately.

I'm an IT Security professional by trade. There are games out there that I would love to play... but there is no way in hell I would purposefully install Spyware, Rootkits, or anything that has to constantly 'phone home' with my system information. Assassin's Creed 2 is a great example of this. I will -never- spend my hard-earned money on a product that I can't play without a 100% stable internet connection.

I also will -never- buy a game with an install limit... I rebuild and reformat my computer all the time, for many reasons... not the least of which being my profession of choice. I have 6 computers in my house, 3 of which are capable of running modern games at reasonable settings. If I'm limited to 5 installs, and I put that game on all 3 of those machines, I can reasonably expect to no longer be able to play that game at all within 6 months. This is completely insane to me.

An analogy to the movie industry would be if I went out, bought a brand new DVD for $20, and that DVD destroyed itself after I watched it 5 times. Who would ever buy something like that? When I pay for something (especially as much as it costs to buy a new game), I expect to be able to use it how I please -- within the confines of the law, of course.

Now companies try to justify this by pointing at pirates. Pirates are a very, very small subset of the gaming community. On top of this, EVERY form of digital media has piracy. Hell, movies, music, and television have piracy on a significantly larger scale than games (just look at some torrent statistics if you don't believe me on this one).

Now there are exceptions, but you generally don't see anywhere NEAR the kind of crap that gamers have to deal with when it comes to other media. Yes, Itunes is a pain. Yes, region coding sucks. But at least you can -use- the product you bought. I've never had a DVD just stop playing because my internet connection hiccuped, and I've never had my music taken away from me because I listened to it too much.

Honestly, with the exception of a few developers (like Stardock... I love Sins of a Solar Empire...), the gaming industry as a whole is losing my trust. Respect me, or at least respect the money I've spent on you, or lose me. Blame me and punish me for things I didn't do, and I will decry you until the day I die. That's pretty much my attitude now, and I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. I can find another hobby, but can you replace your customer base?

 

[Outright Villainy]

I'll start by saying Steam is Drm I can definitely get behind. The positives severely outweigh the negatives, and I've no problem giving up resale value when I buy a good game in a super cheap sale, I get automatic updates and a well functional Friend list that makes it easy to join. (from my experience in tf2 at any rate, this is pretty sweet.)

The news of Drm in Assassin's Creed 2 seemed a little surreal though, because it seemed like such an unbelievable dick move. If I had a good enough Pc to run it I probably would have bought it, but there's no way I will now. I'm not being dramatic for the sake of it, having constant internet connection to their servers is completely unreasonable. You pay 70 bucks to essentially stream the game, and that's ridiculous. I don't have a perfect internet connection, and for a single player game I really shouldn't even need one at all.

Saying pirating is wrong in every situation is pretty misguided, I'd completely support someone downloading a crack to play the game they bought when they want. Obviously it shouldn't come to this, but defending the companies and saying it's our fault as cause and effect is absurd. In fact, the Op even mentioned in one of his replies it's essentially profiling, by lumping all gamers in with pirates. How he thinks this is justifiable is beyond me, as we're being shat on and we're the ones who buy the game, whilst the pirates get the superior version. More restrictive Drm isn't going to stop pirates, and lifting it won't increase it: Pirates will find a way regardless, and this just insults people who pay for it.

The way a company sells a game should be based on trust and respect, that's how you gain loyal gamers. I see it as fairly analogous to a good band; I like what they're doing and then I buy their cd to support them, not because I've a moral problem with downloading albums, or I can't find it online for free, but because I want to support the band. It may sound pretty corny but relying on the goodness of people can get you pretty fucking far.

Edit:

snip

Well said my friend, well said.