Gamers are Killing the Games Industry
- Thread starter Seldon2639
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Well, without looking at the figures, I would've agreed with you - I know of one person who still buys music. (I don't, but I don't pirate it either. I listen to radio.)Kortney said:I retract my statementJEBWrench said:
More than anything, it looks like people are moving more towards downloading music legally, much like the gaming industry is going towards digital distribution.
(Unfortunately, it's much much harder to find reliable stats on gaming sales figures from a third-party source.)
Fans BUY the music, because they do not want to fuck their favourite artists over. Not in that way.JEBWrench said:Well, without looking at the figures, I would've agreed with you - I know of one person who still buys music. (I don't, but I don't pirate it either. I listen to radio.)Kortney said:I retract my statementJEBWrench said:
More than anything, it looks like people are moving more towards downloading music legally, much like the gaming industry is going towards digital distribution.
(Unfortunately, it's much much harder to find reliable stats on gaming sales figures from a third-party source.)
It could be the same with game developers.
If DRM were about piracy, then all the money wasted on DRM would be infinitely better served in paying the developers to do more interviews; get on TV etc. Connect the human face to the company. I won't pirate from the ugly mugs at Valve or Bioware.
Ofcourse, DRM is NOT about piracy, because publishers cannot all be total morons. Piracy is just the excuse, so publishers won't look like the greedy asholes they are.
The point of DRM is to squeeze more money out of the loyal, paying customers.
DRM publisher advantages:
1 kill resale
2 remove old games and back catalogue (by shutting down the activation servers)
3 gradually break gamers to expensive subscription based gaming in a forseable future
Publisher's wet dream: re-release old games over and over again.
I've had a problem with the DRM on my Spore game. I installed the Galactic Adventures expansion, and ever since, it asks me to insert my disk. All they say is to "register the product" which just adds the game to be launched or downloaded from the download manager. I still can't play without the disk because I have no idea how to get it to fully register on my computer that It's paid for without it. And it's only a matter of time until the small crack in the middle of the disk grows large enough to be a problem with loading it up at all.
But I am a bit on the side of "word of mouth means more sales". I personally download a lot of Japanese music online. Well.. pretty much any of it that I've listened to are from downloads. This is largely because it's impossible to find anywhere in America, and costs so much to import. But in the long run, even though I never bought the CD, I think I'm doing my part to spread the band's names around by advertising it to people who never would even think to listen to Japanese music. Not enough people are open minded enough to really give much of a chance to anything without actually hearing it first. Especially if you have no idea what it's about.
With games, Although I've never pirated any of them (aside from Toejam and Earl, which I have a hard copy I can't play on my sega anymore), can be thought up the same way. Chances are, you weren't going to play them anyways if you didn't get them for free. So while they aren't gaining any money, they aren't exactly losing any either. If someone wasn't going to buy it either way, they aren't really hurting the industry. However if they enjoy the game, they can go around and tell others who haven't played it, "Dude.. this game is freakin sweet, you gotta check it out!". which would in turn get others to actually buy it, or at least rent it from the video store.
But I am a bit on the side of "word of mouth means more sales". I personally download a lot of Japanese music online. Well.. pretty much any of it that I've listened to are from downloads. This is largely because it's impossible to find anywhere in America, and costs so much to import. But in the long run, even though I never bought the CD, I think I'm doing my part to spread the band's names around by advertising it to people who never would even think to listen to Japanese music. Not enough people are open minded enough to really give much of a chance to anything without actually hearing it first. Especially if you have no idea what it's about.
With games, Although I've never pirated any of them (aside from Toejam and Earl, which I have a hard copy I can't play on my sega anymore), can be thought up the same way. Chances are, you weren't going to play them anyways if you didn't get them for free. So while they aren't gaining any money, they aren't exactly losing any either. If someone wasn't going to buy it either way, they aren't really hurting the industry. However if they enjoy the game, they can go around and tell others who haven't played it, "Dude.. this game is freakin sweet, you gotta check it out!". which would in turn get others to actually buy it, or at least rent it from the video store.
I've seen this argument stated as fact now several times and that amazes me. Because it is quite obviously nonsense. The inclusion of DRM has no effect at all on the piracy of single player games. It is similar as the effect to make an audio-CD hard to copy. It only takes 1 person to crack it and everyone can get it. And there is always this one person.AndyFromMonday said:
Please for the love of god stop pretending that DRM stops piracy, it simply is not true and this misconception is at the heart of the problem. Once the industry finally gets this into their heads, they might start to focus on positive ways to increase sales...
I think they should be focusing on the pirates themselves rather then making it pirate free. They need to try and nip it in the bud. Plus, if they didn't make the games so damn expensive in the first place, they wouldn't have that problem to begin with.
As I remember reading in a different forum a while back, people pirate because to get a game is so expensive these days, you can't play many of them without it.
Now what I don't understand is why people have to pirate games you pay say 5 bucks for. You probably spend that much on downloading it anyway. Unless you have some package deal thing.
As I remember reading in a different forum a while back, people pirate because to get a game is so expensive these days, you can't play many of them without it.
Now what I don't understand is why people have to pirate games you pay say 5 bucks for. You probably spend that much on downloading it anyway. Unless you have some package deal thing.
Thank you, it's a pleasure to read someone stating what needs to be said. I'm so bloody sick of gamers making excuses for their piracy, using one thing or another to try and rationalize them getting for free what they shouldn't. And it's that damned rationalizing which annoys me most of all, the pirates who say 'I do it because of _____' or 'I wouldn't have bought ____ anyway'. This sort of greedy self-centered and just plain idiotic that so many pirates seem to have!
Yet there is absolutely no reason for piracy aside from greed. NONE! You do not *need* games to survive. They are purely for entertainment value and as such there's no reason at all to steal them aside from the pirates own twisted rationalizations. And that so damn many people seem to be following this twisted path of self-justification for their own petty crimes, well, it doesn't speak well of gamers as a whole now does it? Downright embarrassing actually to be associated with these sorts of people because of my hobby.
Sometimes I read things like 'I couldn't afford the games' or 'it was too expensive' or 'it's not fair', to which I want to scream at my screen in reply "If you can't afford the game then don't buy them, it's no excuse for piracy.". 'B-b-but don't I deserve to have fun too?' the cringing pirate masses demand, to which I reply (If I could somehow project my shrill, screaming voice through my monitor and broadcast it to every pirate out there who holds up this excuse!) "Sure you do, so go outside, have fun. Even better, go to a library, it's free, and if you're so petty that you honestly think the only means of entertainment out there are videogames, and you're so desperate for that entertainment you're willing to break the law, then reading something could only to good for you."
As for DRM and the like, if I'm really so against a games DRM then I simply don't buy the product. Not buying a product sends a much stronger message to publishers than pirating does because right or wrong, publishers see piracy rates as lost sales. Whereas if no one were to buy the game nor pirate it, then they'd be simply forced to conclude it was a failure. Meanwhile the self-righteous gamers who pirate in 'protest' only add fuel to the fire and encourage heavier DRM in the future. Way to go!
But again what irritates and enrages me more than anything isn't necessarily the act itself, so much as the myriad excuse and reasoning pirates create. If you're going to steal at least be honest with yourself and others about it. Bah! Now I'm all cranky again.
And as a note if you're just downloading games as 'demo' or because the game is absolutely impossible for you to find otherwise, whatever. I honestly couldn't care less. Just know that being a cynic I very much doubt you downloaded the game for those purposes and fully expect you never intended to buy the game in the first place, but that's just me. Cheery sunny me!
Yet there is absolutely no reason for piracy aside from greed. NONE! You do not *need* games to survive. They are purely for entertainment value and as such there's no reason at all to steal them aside from the pirates own twisted rationalizations. And that so damn many people seem to be following this twisted path of self-justification for their own petty crimes, well, it doesn't speak well of gamers as a whole now does it? Downright embarrassing actually to be associated with these sorts of people because of my hobby.
Sometimes I read things like 'I couldn't afford the games' or 'it was too expensive' or 'it's not fair', to which I want to scream at my screen in reply "If you can't afford the game then don't buy them, it's no excuse for piracy.". 'B-b-but don't I deserve to have fun too?' the cringing pirate masses demand, to which I reply (If I could somehow project my shrill, screaming voice through my monitor and broadcast it to every pirate out there who holds up this excuse!) "Sure you do, so go outside, have fun. Even better, go to a library, it's free, and if you're so petty that you honestly think the only means of entertainment out there are videogames, and you're so desperate for that entertainment you're willing to break the law, then reading something could only to good for you."
As for DRM and the like, if I'm really so against a games DRM then I simply don't buy the product. Not buying a product sends a much stronger message to publishers than pirating does because right or wrong, publishers see piracy rates as lost sales. Whereas if no one were to buy the game nor pirate it, then they'd be simply forced to conclude it was a failure. Meanwhile the self-righteous gamers who pirate in 'protest' only add fuel to the fire and encourage heavier DRM in the future. Way to go!
But again what irritates and enrages me more than anything isn't necessarily the act itself, so much as the myriad excuse and reasoning pirates create. If you're going to steal at least be honest with yourself and others about it. Bah! Now I'm all cranky again.
And as a note if you're just downloading games as 'demo' or because the game is absolutely impossible for you to find otherwise, whatever. I honestly couldn't care less. Just know that being a cynic I very much doubt you downloaded the game for those purposes and fully expect you never intended to buy the game in the first place, but that's just me. Cheery sunny me!
Ah, piracy, the ultimate test of character. Will a person still see it as morally wrong to steal, or is the only reason he doesn't steal because he is afraid of getting caught?
It is a shame that I don't see a way out of this. I do not believe however that consoles will become exposed to piracy that much however, since it isn't as simple as computers. Sure, it may become much easier in the future, but you must still hook the console up to your computer and stuff, and since the world is generally lazy, I don't know if that many people will do it.
And they could implement a system where the console has to hook up to the internet for it to store certain data, like things from the computer. If you try to transfer a file from your computer to your console, a check-up must be made through the internet, which requires a profile and internet connection.
Of course, I'm no genius when it comes to computers, so I'm sure that a lot of you can poke tons of holes in my suggestion. But don't poke too hard, I'm gentle!
It is a shame that I don't see a way out of this. I do not believe however that consoles will become exposed to piracy that much however, since it isn't as simple as computers. Sure, it may become much easier in the future, but you must still hook the console up to your computer and stuff, and since the world is generally lazy, I don't know if that many people will do it.
And they could implement a system where the console has to hook up to the internet for it to store certain data, like things from the computer. If you try to transfer a file from your computer to your console, a check-up must be made through the internet, which requires a profile and internet connection.
Of course, I'm no genius when it comes to computers, so I'm sure that a lot of you can poke tons of holes in my suggestion. But don't poke too hard, I'm gentle!
And do you honestly believe that DRM would've made any difference apart from just plain punishing the customer? I mean hell, DRM has been totally successful in stopping pirates and it has NEVER been cracked...kingmob said:
Also, advertisement. This game lacked it.
It doesn't and never will.kingmob said:
As much as anyone would like to stop piracy punishing customers is not the solution. Day one DLC and no DRM seems to have been keeping pirates at bay.
But do you want to know the real way to stop piracy? Getting rid of any sort of DRM. Why do you think pirates do what they do? Is it because they want to "stick it to the corporations?" No, it's a competition to them. "Hey look at me I cracked a fancy new DRM from EA today!"
What do you think will happen when there's no competition due to the lack of any sort of DRM? Most of the "major crackers" will stop since there would be no point to buying games and copying them just so that the masses can enjoy it. They give 2 shits about the masses. No competition = no reason to crack games.
Trouble is, it's not the same with games. Independent games without DRM get pirated to ridiculous levels. World of Goo is only one example. Ricochet Infinity? 92%.veloper said:
But the crazy thing is? Statistically speaking from the indie market? It takes the removal of about 1,000 pirated downloads to equate to one single sale.
The most effective technique to the smaller devs appears to be just dealing with exploits and keygens as they come along - amounts to about a 70% increase in sales with a slight drop in piracy.
Source, and unfortunately very single-game specific, but as I said before, it's really freakin' hard to find hard data on this stuff: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17350
Well, games constantly evolve technologically, and at a very fast rate. If a game isn't with the times in terms of graphics and the like, some people will be put off. Therefore, much more money must be spent in development, which means that prices need to go up.ethaninja said:
I know this is true, because I vaguely remember reading about something similar! YOU CANNOT ARGUE MY FACTS! [sub]Yeah, that was a joke... Don't yell at me[/sub]
Morals has nothing to do with it. The company owns the game and it's entirely within their rights to slap on the most ridiculous and frustrating DRM you can think of. If gamers don't like it, they should show it by not buying these games on principle, but lets face it this won't happen and the minority that do not buy it on principle are a drop in the bucket.AC10 said:
I'm talking about the removal of DRM from every single game.JEBWrench said:
Also, what was the second most pirated game? All I found out was crap about Modern Warfare 2.
While that's very true, it isn't justifiable. I can't afford a flashy car at the moment. I have other things to spend my money on that I need and those cars cost a lot of money to buy. A flashy car, like computer games, is a luxury not a basic right. If you can't afford one then you don't have one (or rather, you shouldn't have one).Nemu said: