Gender equality

[Sarge034]

I did in fact read your last post before I wrote mine, and my opinion is unchanged.

Also a woman! And I basically agree with everything VivaciousDeimos said.

Thank you both for your views on this from the other side of the gender fence. I will say that I would be happy to fight and shed blood next to women. I just don't think people see all the issues that come up from it.

I will list some that we, as a society, would have to solve before we could start this.
Fun fact before we start. Did you know Fort Jackson S.C. (one of two army basic training sights) is know as Relaxin' Jackson? It recived this name when soldiers found out that the instruction tends to be easier and that female recruits have been know to give head in their foxholes. Had a buddy that went there. He said it was true, but that he never got one. Just to show that both men and women will need to change to make this work, as this is unacceptable.

Spoiler: long text

Sleeping arrangments
/privacy-A lot of times you have to sleep in a common area. Changing area required.
/rape-This is something we need to grow a set and stop at all costs. However, a lot of this happens at Military Academies. Officers DO get treated differently.
/consentual sex-This is a BIG problem in three areas. 1) Some women get pregnate to get sent back to the states. 2) If people are having consentual sex it will hurt the integridy of the unit. You know that old saying, "Don't shit where you eat." Same as relationships at work, er I guess they are at work. 3) This is the consentual turned rape bullet. It does not happen as often as rape, but it does happen.

Medical aid
/gender different field medics/ corman-We need to decide if it is ok for a male medic/corman to take off the armor and ripe open a female's shirt (possibly bra as well) to treat a sucking chest wound in the middle of the battlefield. Vice versa, if it is ok for a female to remove a male's pants (possibly underwear as well) to work on a high femoral artery (inside thigh) wound. The femoral artery senario would work for the male medic/corman as well.

Require different things
/personal hygene items-The simple fact is it takes money to ship the stuff to the war zone. It takes up extra room in their or the unit's kit. It adds to the overall weight of the soldier's kit. So the main points are money, room in the kit, and weight for the indevidual soldier.
/seperate facilities-This should be self evident. Latrines, showers, changing areas, the whole nine yards.
/differences in using the toilet-I heard a story from my recruiter from when he went through his Marine land combat course. They had to compleat their forced marches every day, but in order to compleate this they could not stop for people to take a piss. This march was early in the morning so it was not light out. They would just whip it out and piss while they walked. This story aside, it does take longer for females to use the restroom and it becomes much more difficult while in the field.

If we can make it that...
1) Women must pass the same physical standards as men
2) All aforementioned problems addressed
3) All women going into a combat MOS sign a waver to show they have been informed of the posibilty of rape and pregnancy if captured. As well as what the military will do for them or cover in the way of medical treatment for such an occasion.

Then by all means sign them up. Could always use more boots on the ground and more lead down range.

 

[Dyme]

Physical work is just better suited for men because they are physically fitter.

And most manager jobs are done by men is because men are more competetive. Which is due to genes, and society/values. Men want good-looking chicks, girls want guys with a lot of money/good reputation.
Women can of course also become managers (or alike), but they rarely have as much incentive to do so as men.

Do I think that "one sex is inherently superior to, more competent than, or more valuable than the other."?
No. Well. Yes.
Men have objectivly judged the better voices. Men voices aren't annoying. Women voices are.

But women have a beverage in their breasts. How cool is that.

 

[Evidencebased]

Physical work is just better suited for men because they are physically fitter.

And most manager jobs are done by men is because men are more competetive. Which is due to genes, and society/values. Men want good-looking chicks, girls want guys with a lot of money/good reputation.
Women can of course also become managers (or alike), but they rarely have as much incentive to do so as men.

Do I think that "one sex is inherently superior to, more competent than, or more valuable than the other."?
No. Well. Yes.
Men have objectivly judged the better voices. Men voices aren't annoying. Women voices are.

But women have a beverage in their breasts. How cool is that.

Well thank god we're good for something! 9.9 (Seriously, the bit I bolded is the only sentence in that entire comment that isn't horribly wrong...)

Anyways, it sounds like the rest of us are having a nice mature conversation! I basically agree with

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et al. that if women can meet the physical requirements for a particular job -- which may not be as difficult as sexists like to pretend! -- then they deserve to have a chance at that job. Part of my feminist perspective is that I have a very good opinion of men (no men do not have to be slaves to their biology) and like to hold them to quite a high standard, so I think men are perfectly capable of working alongside women and not raping them and not treating them like helpless children. I refuse to believe "act like decent adults" is an unrealistic goal for our armed forces (or for any of our professional workforce, really.)

 

[Sarge034]

Physical work is just better suited for men because they are physically fitter.

And most manager jobs are done by men is because men are more competetive. Which is due to genes, and society/values. Men want good-looking chicks, girls want guys with a lot of money/good reputation.
Women can of course also become managers (or alike), but they rarely have as much incentive to do so as men.

Do I think that "one sex is inherently superior to, more competent than, or more valuable than the other."?
No. Well. Yes.
Men have objectivly judged the better voices. Men voices aren't annoying. Women voices are.

But women have a beverage in their breasts. How cool is that.

Go tell this to one of thoes female weightlifters and see how much stronger then her you are... You'r a man and should have no problems right? You will obviously be more physically fit cus you are a man. Hell, I'm man enough to admit she would kick my ass. 10.0 on the sexism scale.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I will list some that we, as a society, would have to solve before we could start this.
Fun fact before we start. Did you know Fort Jackson S.C. (one of two army basic training sights) is know as Relaxin' Jackson? It recived this name when soldiers found out that the instruction tends to be easier and that female recruits have been know to give head in their foxholes. Had a buddy that went there. He said it was true, but that he never got one. Just to show that both men and women will need to change to make this work, as this is unacceptable.

Whoa. I went through basic at Fort Jackson (albeit eleven years ago), and I did occasionally hear the nickname "Relaxin' Jackson" a few times, but only ever in comparison to the stricktness at Ft. Leonard Wood supposedly being more severe. Maybe your friend's company was just grosser than hell, but I never heard of such a thing happening, and my platoon was a good 30-35% female. I knew one guy who pissed his pants in a foxhole during marksmanship training, but that's about it.

 

[Sarge034]

I will list some that we, as a society, would have to solve before we could start this.
Fun fact before we start. Did you know Fort Jackson S.C. (one of two army basic training sights) is know as Relaxin' Jackson? It recived this name when soldiers found out that the instruction tends to be easier and that female recruits have been know to give head in their foxholes. Had a buddy that went there. He said it was true, but that he never got one. Just to show that both men and women will need to change to make this work, as this is unacceptable.

Whoa. I went through basic at Fort Jackson (albeit eleven years ago), and I did occasionally hear the nickname "Relaxin' Jackson" a few times, but only ever in comparison to the stricktness at Ft. Leonard Wood supposedly being more severe. Maybe your friend's company was just grosser than hell, but I never heard of such a thing happening, and my platoon was a good 30-35% female.

This was only five years ago, and it might have just been one or two women doing this. You know how these things grow and take on a life of their own in basic.

 

[Chemical Alia]

This was only five years ago, and it might have just been one or two women doing this. You know how these things grow and take on a life of their own in basic.

I think there was one female and a male in my company who got caught having sex at some point, and were Article 15'd or something, and one guy who kept sneaking off to the hospital to buy candy in the gift shop. One thing I found is, when you're doing retarded shit like that, you're basically going to get caught and get in a ton of trouble. It's a great place for rumors, though, that's for sure v:

 

[Ulvai]

There are many differences between men and women beyond purely physical. Mostly they are derived from the roles man and woman played when our species were evolving into modern human, that is hunter-gatherer society. Any physical work-heavy job would have more men, any high-risk job, any job that requires high spatial awareness. That's because men are hunters. Any job that requires fine motor skills, social skills, or color-recognition are better suited for women. They are gatherers. That all, of course is prone to deviation, as everything in natural world.

 

[SwiftBlade18]

Im not 100% on this but isnt the reason for men only being frontline soldiers because the odds are you will be fighting men...and physically speaking men are stronger...

Other than the physical capabilities of men having larger lungs etc I also believe (whether its the case anymore) that by purely having men on the frontline it keeps the soldiers more focussed on the job at hand without 'female distractions'...also its entirely possible that if women were on frontlines and were injured that more attention/sympathy would be given by comrades.

I could be wrong though...Personally I have nothing against women being in the frontline if they really want to be, but i can see why it doesnt happen

I think it is so ignorant of you not to realize that physical strength does not increase battlefield survivability. Do you think that an enemy combatant would really not hesitate to shoot a woman, a mare among stallions? Also, women are better, more chill sharpshooters than men are. remember also that a woman with military equipment and a gun is less likely to get raped than a defenseless civilian housewife. By the way, homosexual troops have more espirt de corps because they can see what they are fighting for. Why would hetroes be any different? If we have more accountability for rape, less sexism, and a greater understanding between male and females, there is no reason remaining to prevent women from being front line troops. Children have been front line troops because people didn't want to sent in the women. Men should not be the expendable gender, their stereotypical extra strength has better applications than dying.
/rant

First off read what I said...In no way did I say this is what I think...I said "isn't the reason", I was basing what I said from possible reasons why women werent initially allowed in the military - funnily enough what I learnt in history all those years ago.

As you will also notice I said I dont see why women cant be in the frontline -.-

so overall what is the point in calling me ignorant - I can see where confusion could come into play where I said "other than the physical capabilities of men having larger lungs etc I also believe ..." but I didnt mean this as my opinion, I meant I believe I also heard.

Basically read what I say first before trying to say that thats what I believe...I mean jeez you snapped on me as if I said nazis were a good thing...to be ultra clear to you I DONT THINK THEY ARE!

 

[Dyme]

Go tell this to one of thoes female weightlifters and see how much stronger then her you are... You'r a man and should have no problems right? You will obviously be more physically fit cus you are a man. Hell, I'm man enough to admit she would kick my ass. 10.0 on the sexism scale.

Here's a picture of an average man.

Clearly stronger than the woman.

 

[William MacKay]

I'd rather have a lady babysit my kids, have a guy move my furniture, or have a girl handle my subway.

I agree with this exactly. Women have more maternal instincts naturally, men gain more muscle mass during puberty and women are more likely to have obsessive cleanliness. But other than these differences, i think jobs should be equal: business needs equality, as does politics.

 

[Emergent System]

Basic evolutionary biology tells you that males and females of the species are physically different, and as our minds are a product of our bodies, males and females have different minds. The differences may be relatively sbutle, but they're there. We will never see a 50/50 spread across professions with both genders earning the same amount of money in the same professions for these reasons.

Unless the genders magically turn identical (at which point we'd h ave only one gender... sorta defeats the purpose) there will never be the kind of "true" equality that rabid feminists lobby for.

 

[Sebenko]

Think of a scientist. Did you think of a guy in a lab coat? SEXIST!

Actually, I think of a geeky girl rolling dice.

Our game society is full of physicists.

 

[Wildflowers]

I greatly apologize if somebody covered this already;

Back during the great affirmative action of the early 90s, the Calgary Police and Fire had to induct more women to the force. They ended up lowering the standards from carrying 200lb with 60 lb of gear to something like 100/60. Still an impressive amount, don't get me wrong. But my fat ass was, and is still, 180lb. If she can't carry me out of a burning building, and 60 lb of my computer gear, SHE SHOULDNT BE ON THE FORCE.

Yes, I am a woman. Despite whatever anybody may want to claim, men and women are genetically different from each other. Believe it or not - men have bigger bodies, and with bigger bodies it is easier to grow muscle mass. Women have a higher pain tolerance. These are fundamental differences.
Would I rather hire a man to carry furniture? Probably, they are built for it, will have more longevity, and probably ***** about it less. (Kidding on the last part). But when it comes down to being a labour foreman (tip: I was one for a few years) I want someone who doesn't begin to flag at noon.

This is not to say that some women arent muscle bound Dixie-Nukem types that can bench a house, and some men can barely carry the clothes and PDA they carry. But I'd like to think that we hire a PERSON now, not a chromosome test.

==

That all said, there is solid reason why there are a lot more people in one role over another, and everyone seems to overlook the point - men have been in power longer and want to stay in power. Yes, women began to get rights in the 20s blah blah, but, lets face it, it takes a person 60 years to become CEO of a company. Which means they had to start in the position of working for that company for that long. Its not that men are necessarily being hired for positions that a woman could fill, simply because they are a man, but because they have been mentored and trained by men for a longer time period. Give it 50 years for the current generation of CEOs to die off, and I think the division of genders at top levels jobs will be a lot closer than it is now.
Hell, look at regular enterprise these days - every company I have worked at for the past 20 years (aside from the labour job) has been in service or technology. And every one of those had more women in positions of power than men in positions of power, EXCEPT for those at the very top (chairmen and the like).

==

I would not call myself sexist, but I would call myself a realist.
With that said, people really need to understand the difference between physiology (male/female) and constructs (masculine/feminine). Once you strip away the constructed views of society, you will find many differences between people, none of it which is positive or negative. Pro tip: most women are shorter than men. Most black folk have darker skin than white folk. Those are physiological differences. Thats what the gender argument comes down to. So stop arguing masculine/feminine, please?

 

[Verlander]

The only thing that women can't do equal to men (or vice versa) is purely physical. Everything else is sociological conditioning.

Would I care if a man was looking after my kids. No! Maybe I'd be more thrilled, because he could probably do the job better. Would I care about a female construction worker? No! With the tools and right foreman (or foreperson, if you are feeling pedantic) a woman can easily do anything a man can.

Anyone who does have problems with these are conditioned to think otherwise. It's expected that a woman should do something, or is better at something. In reality, the only actual difference is physical, and that is minute to say the least

 

[BlumiereBleck]

don't women make more money for certain jobs now-a-days?

 

[emeraldrafael]

I'm a 4.

... maybe a 5.

Why is there inequality, well, thats rather obvious. White Men run the US, and the role of women has always been significantly less, even in the biblical times (BCE).

The only thing I can say is, depending on the job, I never believed a woman should get BOTH maternity leave and sick/vacation days. It should count against her sick/vacation days if she gets pregnant. ALso, women can lose those little incentives they get for being a girl (since the world is male dominated). TIll then they can continue to take .80 cents for every dollar a man makes, because they get to leave like that and get breaks.

 

[Chrinik]

On the other issues, gender roles are there for a reason.

yup, because society is ignorant as hell and unwilling to change.

No, they are there because some people are better suited at stuff then others. Men will NEVER give birth to children and most women don´t WANT to go through the hassle of becoming a constuction worker for example. If you think I meant "Mom = Housewife and Men = Working" then you need to reconsider who the hell is ignorant and unwilling to change.
As far as I have noticed, the lines blur more and more with each passing year, I don´t know where you live, but the typical genderroles from 50-100 years ago are practically gone.
Men do womens jobs and women do men jobs, but have people actually considered that people DO THE JOBS THEY LIKE?
"Oh, there isn´t X% women in the airplane construction facility, clearly something must be wrong with this companys policy! We should FORCE them to have AT LEAST 25% female employees!!!"
This is the shit germany is currently going through...quotients here and there for friggin everything!
Sometimes it´s not societys fault that women just don´t WANT to do certain, man-typical jobs. Usually these jobs are physically harsh, dirty or what not. Office jobs and Manager positions are pretty much suited for everyone with a brain and expertise in the field, so ANYONE can do them, doesn´t hurt they pay well XD