Gender equality

[DarthFennec]

Have you ever seen any construction going on? Its 99% guys, lol.
Most janitorial services are womens at my school. Most politicians are guys.
You sure you havn't seen it?

Huh. The janitors at all the schools I've been to are pretty much equal, and I see a hell of a lot of women in politics ... I've never lived in a highly urban area so I've never seen major construction involving a lot of steel or anything, but I have seen people do roadwork or build houses or whatever and it's always been more of an equal distribution than anything.

 

[Torrasque]

Have you ever seen any construction going on? Its 99% guys, lol.
Most janitorial services are womens at my school. Most politicians are guys.
You sure you havn't seen it?

Huh. The janitors at all the schools I've been to are pretty much equal, and I see a hell of a lot of women in politics ... I've never lived in a highly urban area so I've never seen major construction involving a lot of steel or anything, but I have seen people do roadwork or build houses or whatever and it's always been more of an equal distribution than anything.

What the hell land of equality and strangeness do you live in?!
I live in Canada, and while we have a few female politicians, there are still hardly that many.
The States is much worse off since their political system is 2 kinds of conservative-ism.
Somewhere in Europe?

 

[DarthFennec]

What the hell land of equality and strangeness do you live in?!
I live in Canada, and while we have a few female politicians, there are still hardly that many.
The States is much worse off since their political system is 2 kinds of conservative-ism.
Somewhere in Europe?

Yeah, I live in the States
And there are a lot of female politicians here ... not so many that it's near equal or anything, but there are quite a few of them.

 

[Zaik]

Do you think there is a reason you see mostly X gender in Y roles?

http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html

Like it or not, a male brain develops differently than a female brain. It goes on to say that female brains exposed to lots of testosterone at a young age develop more like men, and likewise for men exposed to lots of estrogen or whatever, I didn't bother to read too much father past there.

Why do you think there is job inequality?

I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to here. You didn't even talk about any job inequality? If you're asking why women don't get hired to be lumberjacks or men don't get hired to be receptionists, I already covered that above.

On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) how sexist would you say you are?

I would say I'm a 5, possibly encroaching on that 6. Most others would say I'm a 10 at minimum though.

 

[Torrasque]

I personally think I'd rather have a lady babysit my kids, have a guy move my furniture, or have a girl handle my subway.

Is that what we are calling it these days? And I gotta agree with you there man. Not that a man can't handle your "subway" if you are that way inclined but I will always prefer a chick to do it.

I just like womens handling my food.
Partially because I think girls are more likely to have clean hands than guys, but probably because I think womens make better food? iono.
I've always enjoyed my subs moar when a fem makes it.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

No it's the way of the world, animals and society.

Men go to die, women stay behind.

If all the women die who would rebuild the populace. This is more dark age thinking but it clings to all mens mind we would rather take the brunt of death than say a mother figure.

Your line of reasoning is not only archaic but also illogical and impragmatic. If all men die in war, then who is going to impregnate all the left over women?

 

[Rayne870]

personally i don't give a damn as long as the women pass the same testing that men do. ie no womens push-ups or lighter fitness levels for women in the military, or emergency services. everything else is largely intellectually based and gender has little to no meaning there. on the flip side of that i prefer a man when it comes to specific things that a guy would go to a doctor for so that the doctor shares some personal experience/common ground.

Women and men do the same push-ups. The standards are different for each gender, however, they are also different for an 18-year-old vs. a 40-year-old. I've also read that TRADOC revised the PT standards and tests altogether, and that fatty fat gamer nerds may have influenced that change. Personally, I'd like to see the fitness standards based more on the job, and the necessity to be combat ready within one's profession. And in this case, I think that everyone should meet the same minimum goals. We always argue about men and women meeting the same standards, but a huge range applies to different age groups of both genders.

I don't think anyone should be discouraged or forbidden to pursue a job because of their gender, and I'm also strongly opposed to affirmative action. But not all men and women grow up with the same social pressures or develop interests and skills according to their gender roles. I'd hate my life if I was restricted to "traditional" occupations for women, since I've only ever worked in jobs that were strongly male-dominated.

That said, I wish I was more confident. I don't know or care whether it's biological or social conditioning, but it's something I'm working on improving.

They don't do the same push-ups or other exercises here for anything. Age has no bearing on stuff around here though which is nice, even though my dad was recently "retired" from the military at the age of 50 as an officer because he is no longer medically able to carry a ruck sac, which he hasn't had to do for about 30 years, and would never have to as he is a desk jockey. Bear in mind this is probably a difference between the US and other nations, or even may differ between states for emergency services (excluding the national military of course).

 

[Carlston]

No it's the way of the world, animals and society.

Men go to die, women stay behind.

If all the women die who would rebuild the populace. This is more dark age thinking but it clings to all mens mind we would rather take the brunt of death than say a mother figure.

Your line of reasoning is not only archaic but also illogical and impragmatic. If all men die in war, then who is going to impregnate all the left over women?

WHo cares, it's not MY reasoning. It's the world pattern made by thousands of years of behavior deeply rooted in a psychie. To say it's my way of thinking and only my fault is silly. The young, the old and women have in the majority of conflicts been kept safe in a idea all the men will not die. You do know not every culture in everytime line support one on one marriage and kids...there is a reason certain religions want 7 wives spitting out 5 kids each and it's not for the "work force". War is a deeply root human ideal.

It's history, rooted in civilizations behavior. I don't say it's right, but in the crusade era where every 20 years they flared up wars again why? Kids are of age...

So question the archaic but also illogical and impragmatic reasonings of every culture in the world for the past 30k years not my way of thinking.

As I been military, and I'm all for it. If someone normally not expected to go to war, in some odd fit of nonself preservation wants to be right up in it...be my guest,they can have it. And all the nightmares that come after, man, woman or child.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

WHo cares, it's not MY reasoning. It's the world pattern made by thousands of years of behavior deeply rooted in a psychie. To say it's my way of thinking and only my fault is silly. The young, the old and women have in the majority of conflicts been kept safe in a idea all the men will not die. You do know not every culture in everytime line support one on one marriage and kids...there is a reason certain religions want 7 wives spitting out 5 kids each and it's not for the "work force". War is a deeply root human ideal.

It's history, rooted in civilizations behavior. I don't say it's right, but in the crusade era where every 20 years they flared up wars again why? Kids are of age...

So question the archaic but also illogical and impragmatic reasonings of every culture in the world for the past 30k years not my way of thinking.

As I been military, and I'm all for it. If someone normally not expected to go to war, in some odd fit of nonself preservation wants to be right up in it...be my guest,they can have it. And all the nightmares that come after, man, woman or child.

Actually, IT IS YOUR line of reasoning, because the arguments you try to make so clearly display several misconeptions as well as several completely unproven claims.

Not event he most prominent scientists of the world have been able to come to an indisputable conclusion about what the "human psyche" is all about, and you think you can do just that with a bunch of archaic generalizations and tell us all what mankind is like? Sorry, im not buying it.

Stop trying to make a few cultural details based on EXTREMELY specific traditions of extremely specific countries to seem like some kind of "deep rooted" evolutionary thing because there is no scientific evidence to support it.

 

[Cheesus333]

1: Because I was raised with these as my surroundings so now I've become accustomed to the notion.
2: In terms of wages: people get paid for what they do, and statistically, women take more time off. So I've read, anyway. In terms of actual roles: it's down to personal preference, anyone can be whatever they want, so people generally do go for that they want in life (or something close). Men and women want different things from life, so they often do very different things for a living.
3: 2.35, that is "not very much at all, but enough to be a little surprised to see a man doing 'lady-like' things or a woman doing 'masculine' things."

 

[BRex21]

A few years back i took part in a study where you take a seriese of IQ tests and they determine your nationality and gender. they were sure i was German, im only a quarter german, but definetly think like that side of the family. I was however given a 60 male/40 female split because i did very well on the male test, but was still well above average in the female.
Now i work as the only male in a team of all women, and find that there are things there that only I appear able to do, mostly on the communication end of things.
This isnt to say women dont know how to communicate or that men cant to lab work, although they didnt have labcoats in my size, this is to say that men and women think work and act different. Our brains are really a "chemical soup" that we dont fully understand, the hormones released by men and women afftect this soup in different ways and shape who we are and there never will be true equality until we can accept this, it does not mean that men or women cant do certain jobs, its just that some will be more inherant to one genders tastes than the other and we shouldnt try to force people into other rolls just to make things look even.

 

[Wade-DeadPool]

Uhm.... maybe a 2-3?

 

[Carlston]

WHo cares, it's not MY reasoning. It's the world pattern made by thousands of years of behavior deeply rooted in a psychie. To say it's my way of thinking and only my fault is silly. The young, the old and women have in the majority of conflicts been kept safe in a idea all the men will not die. You do know not every culture in everytime line support one on one marriage and kids...there is a reason certain religions want 7 wives spitting out 5 kids each and it's not for the "work force". War is a deeply root human ideal.

It's history, rooted in civilizations behavior. I don't say it's right, but in the crusade era where every 20 years they flared up wars again why? Kids are of age...

So question the archaic but also illogical and impragmatic reasonings of every culture in the world for the past 30k years not my way of thinking.

As I been military, and I'm all for it. If someone normally not expected to go to war, in some odd fit of nonself preservation wants to be right up in it...be my guest,they can have it. And all the nightmares that come after, man, woman or child.

Actually, IT IS YOUR line of reasoning, because the arguments you try to make so clearly display several misconeptions as well as several completely unproven claims.

Not event he most prominent scientists of the world have been able to come to an indisputable conclusion about what the "human psyche" is all about, and you think you can do just that with a bunch of archaic generalizations and tell us all what mankind is like? Sorry, im not buying it.

Stop trying to make a few cultural details based on EXTREMELY specific traditions of extremely specific countries to seem like some kind of "deep rooted" evolutionary thing because there is no scientific evidence to support it.

Sorry don't debate with close minded trolls ;p
Read a book, do some studying and get back to me when your accept the human race for how its been not pretending the equal rights movements of the now go back to cave man days.

 

[drisky]

Even things that are different between genders from a hormonal level that people bring up are only statistical and there are plenty of people outside the norm. Ratios of genders in careers are a combination of innate and societal but who is the majority of what doesn't really matter. As long as we don't assume random guy is better and random girl at math we're fine. Statistics are just norms and you don't hold an individual to them, let their ability speak for it self.

The Questions:
1) Its a combination, I haven't done enough research on the subject to know how often it is psychological and sociological, but I think its more society.
2) I think we're doing fine in most fields, but I know a girl who said she had a tough time working as a welder because her male coworkers didn't want females in their business. And people still make fun of male nurses. Legally though were fine, just need to let society catch up.
3) I don't know 2, I get pretty offended when I'm told what men and women shouldn't do.

 

[Torrasque]

I do joke about fems making me sammiches, and "back in the kitchen!", but I think fems are more capable at pretty much everything. I'd LOVE to have more fems in government than guys.

I firmly believe women would make good frontline soldiers, there is no convincing reason they should be prohibited... The UK Armed Forces recently reviewed the situation and declined.

Also... Women do make some pretty bitchin' sammiches...

I don't know about the UK, but of here in the US the driving reason for not allowing women to be involved in a combat MOS (Military Occupational Specialty...ie job) is rape. If a male is captured they will be tourtured and might be killed. If a woman is captured.... Well women are already looked at as second class citizens over there and we are looked apon as infidels by the terrorists. So my question becomes what would they NOT do to her? Then what happens if she is rescued and BAM she findes out she is pregnate? Her religion does not allow her to abort the pregnancy.

I can't even begin to think about how much physoclogical damage this incident would cause a woman.

I think trying to keep them out of the fight is the best option. Let them serve but not combat MOS.

lol wow. Your point is only slightly valid, because a man can be raped and subjected to torture just as bad as a female. I don't know anyone who has been raped, but I know it is a huge psychological* blow and takes years for some women to get over. Men can also be degraded and tortured, and just because women are more likely to be raped, that does not mean that they will be.

You're also forgetting that our women are just as infidel-ish as our men for "the people over there", and it is possible that they will be treated the exact same as the men. The woman can still be raped, but so what? The man could have his arms broken, healed, broken again, healed, and have his balls removed.

If she found out she was pregnant, she would deal with it as she would if she found out she was pregnant in any other circumstance that involved rape. I think you really got off topic.
I liked the point that someone made earlier (that I can't find atm) where men are likely to be over-protective of women in combat, because that would definitely be a possibility.

 

[Freechoice]

I honestly could not give a damn who does what, but the personal characteristics of women tend to piss me off to no end.

I'm trying to get up or down a staircase and I see four legs or two heads standing on the steps and talking. 90% of the time they're both women. Same is true for walking down the sidewalk, working in the library or driving.

They. Won't. Stop. Talking.

I won't say I don't see men doing this. I will say I don't see men do it as frequently as women. Not by a longshot.

6

 

[Aranialis]

Lets face it, if no ginormicus change happens to our society, Like say brainwash every single human in the face of the earth and any other planet we might be secretly exploring by now, then there will be no true gender equality.
why is that, you might ask, Well I will say because of the obvious preconceptions society imprints on us.

Its true that the physical differences between sexes are more then obvious (some actually aren't but are quite determining in the roles we are often good at.)thus making men more apt for some tasks then the majority of the women. this is not an unknown thing.

Now having that stated... am I sexist? definitely not. Maybe a 1, since i rather watch female striping. But one of the things that really ticks me off into anger is hearing sexist remarks, and not joking ones i can deal with that( I do it myself), when people are serious about it. and guess what? I've noticed that women are often more sexist then men. if one is able and good at something then they should be allowed to do it. Men and women are different, true, but we do complete each other. I could be called a total jerk wad by mentioning the bible here. But guess what I will. So look in the genesis, is the male superior to the female? NO, DEFINITELY NOT, when said that Eve is born out of a rib of Adam, Well don't take it so damn literally, it only means neither are complete without the other. Both men and women need each other. And not only in a sexual or to keep the species going. its all about as sentient beings, no one is ever complete by oneself.

So should we say that women are only good for this or that and the same for men? No.
Instead try looking at the individual and not the sex to determine. if one qualifies then it should be admitted.

 

[b3nn3tt]

I actually got into an argument with someone over this not too long ago. They were complaining about the recent EU ruling that women have to pay the same insurance premiums as men (previously they got a cheaper deal) and I asked them if they thought a woman should have the equal right to have any job they were capable of doing.
They answered "yes"
I asked them if Women should be given equal pay as men and again they said yes.
When I asked them if, by that logic Women should pay the same rates of insurance and tax as men, they got irritated at me.

I have to diagree with you on this one, the reason that women got cheaper insurance was because they were statistically less likely to have an accident. With things like insurance, I don't think that people can claim sexism, because absolutely everything is based on statistics. This is also why insurance is more expensive for young drivers, why insurance is more expensive if your car is red, why it's more expensive if you modify your car

OT: I don't think that gender equality is necessarily the problem. I think the problem is overcompensation, like a few other people have said. Everyone has an equal chance at a job, but some people show a greater aptititude for that job. Disregarding sex for a minute, nobody complains if the person beating them to a job is simply better than them. The fact is that people are hired based on how well they would perform a job. If they can't demonstrate in an interview that they are the best candidate, they won't be hired, simple as that

Having said that, I think that there are a number of jobs that are traditionally thought of as men's or women's jobs, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, if ever. At least, it won't change while people still hold notions of gender roles as they currently exist