"get back in the kitchen"

[Labyrinth]

I could spend days of my time assembling links, but it would be pointless because you would just dismiss them all via some convinient and predictable excuse (those are all isolated incidents, well I'm not like that so it can't be true, it was all made up by the Fox Conspiracy Machine, etc. etc.).

Please, go right ahead and find a bunch of stuff. I'll be sure to read through the lot and then take it to pieces in an eloquent fashion.

Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. The majority of feminists are against true equality, so you don't really matter. And I must once again wonder what feminism is even supposed to mean when anyone can be one. Doesn't matter if you believe in equality or if you want to castrate all men, you're still as feminist as anyone else.

Do you see me saying that all men, whether they want to help feminist or not are chauvinist fuckwits? You are, effectively, doing that to an entire movement of people, male and female.

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm not admitting defeat, since I know I am right and you are wrong. I just won't waste my time on something that I know is 100% futile.

There is no point you posting in a discussion forum at all if you are not willing to actually have a discussion. "Here is my view, I am right, anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, and I couldn't be bothered providing credible evidence of my position" is not a discussion, that's a one-way communication.

 

[Sethzard]

My dad is a fat lazy slob who has never done an honest day's work in his life, ironically, he has a higher earning potential than my mum, being a fully qualified lawyer. My mum has been both the breadwinner and the house-keeper/emotional support for my whole life, hell, my dad didn't get back from work until i was in bed till age 10, they are now in the process of divorce.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Ok I really want to raise this point. By giving the women the choice it takes away from the men's choice as to whether they raise the kids or not and most women consider them to be slack when men like that come around. I think it is very strange that women want equality and yet they want to be given these exceptions to the rules of equality. I think that if the man and woman both agree on the circumstances then go for it but you shouldn't just assume that the choice is only yours as by staying home puts your man at greater stress and why should you get the option to stay home when he doesn't???

I think that women should work just as men do ... AS EQUALS!!! ENOUGH I SAY!!! ENOUGH OF THIS HYPOCRITICAL EQUALITY!!! If you want to stay home well too bad!!! you shouldn't take your man's support for granted so get your butt out and work!!! That is what it means to be equals, you do the work EQUALLY!!!

 

[Chipperz]

I will allow women equal rights when they carry their own damn stuff.

That is all.

 

[Labyrinth]

Are you going to somehow compensate me for the time I will be wasting? No, I didn't think so.

What does this have to do with what you're replying to? Are you even replying to anything I said?

I'll provide you with a collection of things to refute your argument, such asthis [http://open.salon.com/blog/jodi_kasten/2009/05/27/equal_rights_for_men] I was pointing out the flaws in what you said, namely that it was wrong.

 

[Labyrinth]

That doesn't refute anything, because I didn't say that there aren't people who identify themselves as feminists who are serious about equality. They're just in the minority. Feminism, as whole, is harmful towards equality (and gender relations and society in general).

I don't quite understand. Where is it harmful? I'm giving you all sorts of prompts to provide evidence for that. Care to?

 

[Aardvark Soup]

When I was born both my parents started to work part time and managed to divide their days in a way that one of the two was always home to take care of the children. Later my mother took a second job and my father kept working part time, causing him to be home (and having to cook, clean and such) more often. So yeah, this did cause me to see a 'traditional family structure' as a bit old-fashioned. Of course not everyone is able or willing to do it the same way as my parents, but I do think that men can just as well make carier concessions for their families as women.

 

[Labyrinth]

Feminism seeks to promote women at the expense of men, to get rights without any of the responsibilities, and to create double standards. It also fosters hatred and contempt towards men and erodes morality.

Now demonstrate where that occurs, please. I'm just dying with anticipation here.

You want double standards? How about the one where a promiscuous man is a "stud" with all the wonderful positive connotations while a promiscuous woman is a "slut" and all that word entails. Where women are either Damned Whores for male entertainment or God's Police to enforce morality. Where men are easily accepted when they are angry yet an angry woman is ohgodscary. Absence of morality? Let's look at when consent is defined as an absence of "no" not the presence of an enthusiastic, continuous "Yes!" or where 1 in 4 women will experience rape or sexual abuse during their lives. The rights we want are things such as equal pay for equal work, with the responsibility to do said work. The right to decide what happens to our bodies if we don't want children. The right to choose to say "no, fuck off" when advances are made and not to be laden with expectations just because someone bought us dinner.

Feminism is not about hating every man to have ever existed and ever to exist for what they do. For every woman who is freed from a situation of drunken and unconsensual sex there is a man freed from being pressured to a drunk and semi-conscious woman. Or two. Or five. It means that a man who doesn't need to be the primary breadwinner can pursue a career based on what they want to do rather than what it would bring to the table, nor are the only merits a man can find relationships with those of his bank account. It means that a man who is abused in a relationship doesn't feel the shame that comes from being victim to a 'weaker sex' but is instead able to bring that abuse to light.

The attitudes of sexism are not the fault of all men everywhere, and only men. They are continued and protected by a vast number of women as well. Feminism is about changing that, for everyone.

 

[Labyrinth]

Everywhere.

That's not demonstration.

I didn't realize that the solution to double standards is to create more of them.

Stating something creates it now?

What you are complaining about is an absence of perfection, which is common for feminists. As long as there is even one rape per year, or even one society where women can't have a legal abortion, it's proof positive of the fact that women (in Western countries) are horribly oppressed and must fight The Man. If men were to compile a similiar list using the same logic, do you have any idea how long it would be?

And what are you trying to say, anyway? That women should abandon morality because some men have?

Please, do compile this list. I await it. Just like I await your evidence.

I see absence of morality in any kind of inequality. I'm still waiting for a display of where feminism is about that exactly. Do be forthcoming. The repression of women in western culture is very different in manifestation but come down to similar points of sexuality control, bodily control and financial control.

I have encountered so many cases where it turns out that the women aren't actually doing an equal amount of work. They have the same job and position, but they work less.

Where?

Abortion is legal in most Western countries. If you are suggesting that women should have an absolute right to abort, you are advocating rights without responsibilities. If you have drunken, unprotected with someone, you should not have a right to abort, for example. Also, it is a double standard that while women can abort a child if they so choose, a man cannot choose to abort his financial responsibilities towards the child.

Why shouldn't I have the right to abort after drunken sex? If said drunken sex involved a condom which broke would the alcohol negate the right to abort? I think that in the event of a relationship that the choice to abort should be discussed first and if either party considers themself unfit to be a parent then it would be a good option, or adoption for those women willing to carry to term. In the case of men paying child support I believe that the state should provide much more support for children than it does which would relieve men from that duty.

You have that right, just like men have the right to say "no" when someone threatens them with a gun and demands their wallet.

Not socially I don't. There's the presumption that sex is consented to off a checklist or something. Bought dinner for her? Check. Few drinks, check. She refused? What? That fucking *****! I bought dinner you slut! I've seen it happen.

You can keep saying that for as long as you like, but the proof is in the pudding.

So serve up the desert. I'm waiting. Still.

Too bad women don't actually like men who stay at home or get beaten by their wives or girlfriends. Men are expected to be manly.

Which goes against, da-da-DA the principles of feminism, which say that neither men nor women should have gender roles and expectations imposed upon them. Incidentally I wouldn't mind a partner who stayed at home, though that implies there would be children in the relationship, which is as likely as me walking on the moon.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I dont want children so my future partner(heres hoping!) will not need to quit there job!

 

[Labyrinth]

Your ignorance does not concern me to the point where I would waste days of my time on something that is predestined to be useless.

So you have no evidence. Hokay, I'll run with that.

Your logic seems to be that since there are double standards that are unfair towards women, feminists should create and support ones that are unfair towards men.

And exactly what double standards am I encouraging?

Are you fucking kidding me? You are seriously claiming that men face no hardships in life, have no problems, and that life is never unfair towards them?

Not in the slightest. I'm saying that the logic of your list is mysterious. I'm not talking about a situation where there's one rape in a country far distant, I'm talking about the rate of sexual violence which happens right now, in all countries. Both men and women endure it.

And what are these forms of control?

Ridicule. Invisibility. Lack of information.

Around.

Where?

If you have sex without taking precautions against pregnancy, why should you be allowed to abort?

Because it is a pregnancy happening in my body which I do not want. Would you demand someone retain a cancer in their lungs because they smoke?

I believe this is one of the factors that has led to Britain's epidemic of single mothers, and it's another manifestation of rights without responsibilities. If you get a child then you damn well better be prepared to take care of it instead of expecting some third party to foot the bill. If you can't afford to take care of it yourself, then get married.

And what if it was an accidental pregnancy and one wasn't allowed to abort, such as the above drunken sex? Oh, wait.

You have the full right to deny sex if you want to.

I'm not expected to be able to exercise it, as in the above example. I have friends who don't believe they can say no, or have the right to. My telling them otherwise doesn't sink in because it goes against the behaviour they see in the rest of society.

What feminists say and what they really think and feel are two different things. The feminist paradise they're building up in their heads has a way of clashing with the reality of things. Kind of like how women started demanding that men should be sensitive, but when they started becoming sensitive women were repulsed and complained that they're pussies.

So you can read our minds now? And is it the exact same women demanding sensitivity and then rejecting? The deal with feminism is that we don't demand, we empower. We empower men so that they don't feel unable to express emotions in fear of ridicule, just as we empower women to be angry as hell.

 

[G1eet]

What's that big deal? If he tell's you to go to the kitchen, go to the kitchen.

Spoiler

so you can get a knife and stab him in the face

Ah ha. I see what you did there. That's a great alternative to taking a spouse's sexist remarks.

 

[Sigel]

What ever happened to just splitting the housework evenly? I work full time evenings (5pm-2am roughly) and my husband works full time(9am-5pm) so we end up splitting a lot of the housework. I do the laundry and the cooking mostly. He does the dishes and cleans around the house. We split the costs of living evenly as well. We have never labeled anything as "man work" or "woman work", it is more like "this stuff needs to get done before it gets gross".