"get back in the kitchen"

[Meemaimoh]

This all seems ridiculously simple to me:

When finding someone with whom you want to spend the rest of your life, be smart and make one of the major criteria compatability with whatever role you see yourself filling - no matter if you're male or female.

I personally see no reason why women should feel forced to work. I also see no reason why men should. It should always be up to the individual's discretion. No, this doesn't make a person lazy. It just means they have certain values.

What people seem to be missing, though, is that "getting back to the kitchen" doesn't mean "kick back and I'll do everything for you". It means making housekeeping a full-time profession.

 

[TheProfessor134]

Stop caring what others think and just live your life.
Seriously.

 

[Labyrinth]

Again: your ignorance does not concern me to the point where I would waste days of my time on something that is predestined to be useless.

Funny, you're arguing on the internet with no evidence to back yourself up.

How should I know that? I was just pointing out what sort of logic you seem to be employing.

I'm sorry? So the absence of any kind of double standard in my personal philosophy indicates that they must be in my mind somewhere? Like Shrodinger's WoMDs in my basement?

If men started compiling a list of grievances based on the premise that anything short of perfection is unacceptable, the list would be endless.

So what? Should we feminist accept high levels of imperfection in the face of never getting to that pure white world?

What does this mean?

Ridicule works to beat down those who Dare to be different. We are insulted, ostracised, even abused. Invisibility is when what we say is ignored, or we are ignored. The lack of information comes into play with things such as sex ed, when it's taught as abstinence only for methods of contraception.

Tough shit. Should have thought about it before knowingly engaging in unprotected sex. But I guess you just want all the freedoms without any of the responsibilities that come with them.

Well I guess in that case you wouldn't have any kind of problem with a man paying child support for a baby he doesn't want. After all, if he didn't use protection, tough shit right?

I'm pretty sure you can't compare a pregnancy to lung cancer.

Watch me. Many women are more scared of pregnancy and birth than they are of death. Why else would they take the risks of backyard abortions when the surgical procedure wasn't available? Before Rod vs Wade there were any number of deaths from botched self-done abortions.

It doesn't matter if it was accidental. Don't have unprotected sex if you don't want to get pregnant. If you don't want to or can't afford to keep the baby, give it up for adoption. Simple.

It's not that simple. It never is. The process of pregnancy has all sorts of impacts upon the mother's body, upon her social standing and upon her capacity to do things like work for rent.

That's their problem. Society sends all kinds of messages, and individuals can either accept or reject them. Men are not exempt from this.

It's far from just their problem. Your lack of compassion is astonishing. I suppose you've never been in the kind of situations many women find themselves in, where you'd take rape as the alternative to what you perceive as potential death.

It is something that can be observed.

Yeah? Prove it. I've yet to see a single example forthcoming.

Women demanded sensitivity, and when they got it they no longer wanted it.

Did you know that some men demand slavery? That must totally mean that all men want it! Don't even try to equate one group of women with another. I have yet to state that all men are sexist pigs, so don't go ahead with your presumption that all feminists are penis-hating bulldykes who want to wipe the Y chromosome from the species.

And then you ridicule them.

I do now? When?

 

[katsa5]

^^ You may have heard this alot already, but "Amen, Sister!"

 

[Berethond]

I feel like its harder than ever to just be 'normal' maybe i dont want to be super progressive about some things, is that so bad?

But who wants to be normal?
Just do what you want to do, what makes you happy.

 

[AvsJoe]

That's because the divorce rates skyrocket when the woman is the breadwinner.

Spoiler: Here's the link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467390/Househusband-backlash-high-flying-wives-ditch-men-em-em-wanted-stay-home.html

Aside from the dubious quality of that article (Out of supposedly 200 000 home dads, they interviewed three and a very specific three.) I would say that this too is a fault of the culture and a lack of communication between the people. The culture surrounding these people demands a working male partner and expects the woman to be the primary carer. Hence the bias of the courts for example.

I find this insufficient evidence to state that women should not be the breadwinner.

In addition I had a look through related articles and one of them actually said that intelligent women are less happy because they analyse things. This is a publication with the message to women of "be stupid and sedate."

My post was a joke. Sarcasm. Only one person has caught that. The daily mail is no more credible than the national enquirer or the onion.

 

[Lemoncode]

You care because the internet is fucking serious business, don't you.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

In fairness Labyrinth, I've also seen a six-foot lock forward demolish someone's front door because they one of his friends was inside their and he knew she was too drunk to give consent. (I helped. I was too drunk to get sufficently angry to remove the door myself. Though his taking a swing at me was an unwise decision, especially with the girl in question half-naked on his bed and clearly unconscious).

Simply because a minority of men are scum does not mean to say we approve nor, indeed, would emulate this kind of behaviour. In fact, the kind of behaviour you are talking about is a distinct minority, mostly because most of us are decent chaps, all in all.

Look, hoopyfrood, you clearly have some problems in distinguishing where reality ends and your personal bias begins. Here's some helpful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Feminism is a political discourse aimed at equal rights and legal protection for women

If, sir, you find anything objectionable about this ideal, then I would suggest our differences are irreconcilable, and I hereby challenge you to a duel. *Slaps hoopyfrood in the face with an armoured gauntlet*.

However, I would postulate that you are, in fact, mistaking feminism, for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

Misandry is hatred (or contempt) of men or boys.

If your objections herein are towards this, then I would say you are entirely in the majority.

 

[nicholaxxx]

My fathers a dick and my mother was (and is) the sole provider for my family, so if you want to do something, do it! you you really care what people think?

 

[Rolling Thunder]

@hoopyfrood:

Feminism has altered predominant perspectives in a wide range of areas within Western society, ranging from culture to law. Feminist activists have campaigned for women's legal rights (rights of contract, property rights, voting rights); for women's right to bodily integrity and autonomy, for abortion rights, and for reproductive rights (including access to contraception and quality prenatal care); for protection of women and girls from domestic violence, sexual harassment and rape;[1][10][11] for workplace rights, including maternity leave and equal pay; against misogyny; and against other forms of discrimination.[12][13][14]

Might I enquire as to which of these activities you believe to be "working against equality"? If not enclosed therin, then might I enquire as to which specific activities you consider to be working against equality?

 

[teisjm]

sometimes I feel whatever you choose you will be looked down on by some group...

The trick is to realise that what random strangers think of you is not really that important.

If you like your life, and you're not hurting anyone and peolpe still look down at you just say to yourself "why should i give a damn about their oppinions, they're just prejudiced morrons anyways"

Dunno how the while working wife/housewife thing is where you live, in Denamrk homegoing housewifes are very rare, children are taken care of at institutions like kindergarden and stuff from age 1-2 and on till they're 10-11 years old. After that they can go to youth clubs or just go home/to friends after school.

My mom makes twice as much money as my dad, and i don't think either of them feels bothered by that. I wouldn't have any problems if my girlfriend made more money than me either.

 

[Labyrinth]

You should stop acting like the world being imperfect is something that only affects women. If you want equality, you can't expect special treatment.

That's the thing. I don't expect any kind of special treatment. I want to make it so I don't get special treatment, when people don't treat me a certain way because of my gender. This means I'm willing to be hit back (as are all the feminists I know). It means I'm every bit as human as any man, and expect to be treated as such. That's the whole point of feminism.

This all applies to men as well.

I consider it quite fair to say that the world is favourable towards men. It's not like you get told to stay home, dress like nuns and all the rest because otherwise you're inviting rape.

I forgot to mention: an abortion is acceptable within some period of time, before any fetus starts developing.

The would-be baby is ultimately the woman's responsibility. She has to take birth control and/or insist on a condom if she doesn't want to get pregnant. Not to mention that a woman can lie about being on the pill, and use some unwitting guy to ger herself pregnant and then leech money from him.

Now that's a crock of shit. Why must the woman be the only one who has to take responsibility? Is it like the deal where we're the ultimate protectors of morality, or do you consider men to simply be incapable of mature and rational consideration?

Well, you heard it here first, folks: a fetus is like a tumor, and you should kill it.

You seem to be missing my point. For a woman who does not want the child, it is like a tumour, something that they are repulsed by. If the baby is wanted then it's a gift. All a matter of perspective really.

Then don't have unprotected sex.

Because it's totally going to happen that all women choose that all the time and nothing ever goes wrong when protection is used.

If someone perceives it as potential death that they have to turn down a man instead of having sex with him... well, they've got problems. And they need to see a psychiatrist instead of blaming The Man. Also, part of being free means that you have to take responsibility for yourself and make your own decisions. You can't just go "well, society tells me I should do this or that, so I have no choice but to comply." If all this freedom business is too much for you, then maybe you really do need to go back to the kitchen.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. A woman, let's call her Sarah, gets drunk at a party. She goes up to one of the bedrooms with one man on a football team to have sex. Within a few minutes there are 6 guys in there who all expect to have a go fucking the drunk chick. She's scared, she's not entirely conscious and she sure as hell hasn't said yes but she's too concerned that they will beat her if she does say no. Or she doesn't think they'll stop anyway. Or she's unconscious. It happens, more than you might think. The perception that it's the woman's job to either accept or refuse is faulty because you don't do sex to someone, you have it with them. The whole way we think about consent needs to change.

Again: your ignorance does not concern me to the point where I would waste days of my time on something that is predestined to be useless.

Then you have no argument.

I never said anything about all women, and what groups?

So hang on, the fact that a man is encouraged to be emotionally open by one group of women, then shot down by another isn't different groups? Or are you saying that women as a whole do that, which is not the case.

You were not speaking for yourself, you were speaking on behalf of women or feminists.

I'm speaking as a feminist, yeah, but you've yet to show any example of this. Sorry, is it too much bother? You could stop arguing.

My post was a joke. Sarcasm. Only one person has caught that. The daily mail is no more credible than the national enquirer or the onion.

My bad, sorry.

 

[grimsprice]

i feel like its harder than ever to just be 'normal' maybe i dont want to be super progressive about some things, is that so bad?

Just be yourself, there is no normal. Hell, i love cooking, i could never be with a women who hogged all the cooking rights! Everyone is unique, just go with the flow and find someone that flows along with you.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

Sometimes I feel whatever you choose you will be looked down on by some group.

Of course you will, no matter what it is there will always be people who disapprove, even with really trivial things.

To be honest I'd say don't care. It's your life, you do what's best for you. If raising kids and staying home with them works for you then whose business is it? If you instead would prefer to have a job and work full-time then again, only your opinion matters.

If you are with a guy who feels emasculated then find a new one, because that's just pathetic. The same goes for girls who think you shouldn't stick with the traditional "mother" role, tell them where they can shove their opinion.

I cannot agree that it has been twisted more by men though, I don't know any guy who seriously believes that women should stay at home while men work, whereas I know a lot of women who thinks that it's the guys job to hold the door, pay for everything and take the first steps in any relationship.

The thread really should have ended with this excellent post.

 

[Nemorov]

Don't worry about what is or isn't "normal". Just do what you want. If that means cooking, cleaning and being a housewife, great. If it means running a corporation or climbing Mt. Everest, great too. The whole point of the feminist movement was to give women the CHOICE to be who they wanted to be, not to say "all women must behave like X". Just chill out, relax and do what pleases you in life, and be happy that a previous generation of women fought for your ability to make those choices.

Well said.

My family was reversed from the traditional idea. My mom worked and my dad stayed home and raised me. Her family through a big fuss over how my dad wasn't contributing. I think raising me was contributing, but what do I know. XP

 

[baseracer]

I haven't seen this kind of internet chatter until this year. Probably a 4chan thing where the idiots thought they were funny there, so they spread it to the other forums they were on.