"Girl Gamers"
- Thread starter Dahni
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I can't think of any time in a game where I've gotten crap for being a female and a gamer. Maybe it's because I don't say anything about it? I like a good game, and I don't really care if it caters to girls or not. I can play Animal Crossing right before a Left4Dead campaign (where I like playing as Francis). What I'm curious about is why we should ask for more 'female-oriented' options in games. Think of the gaming industry as it stands now. What are we going to get here, a modded Bioshock where you can cook yourself a tasty Splicer dinner with a Cooking Mama-style minigame? No, thank you. I've got no problem with games that let you choose a male or female character, but if I really want a strong heroine, I'll just play me some Metroid.
I agree with a lot of the responses that say girls shouldn't shout out their gender or receive different treatment in games because of their gender. However, it should be noted that MMO's and the use of ventrillo and teamspeak makes it increasingly difficult to hide gender, and why should we hide it if it comes up? I'm not saying that in the middle of a battle we should begin discussing bra sizes, but a lot of the time in chats people talk about their family, their lives, their hobbies, etc. and gender is bound to come up when discussing these things. If a guild member talks about his girlfriend, am I not allowed to talk about my boyfriend? Also, ventrilo/TS make it pretty impossible to hide it.
There are attention whore girls just as there are attention whore guys, the guys just use everything aside from their gender to get the attention.
There's a good article someone wrote for the escapist on girls in MMO's (about how we don't exist on the internet) and it holds a lot of truth. A lot of the time we don't ask for different treatment, but we get it anyways. Is it fair to yell at the entirety of the female gaming community because guys feel bad ganking a girl? No. And gender shouldn't bother you.
It took my friends a while to accept that I play video games and have some degree of skill at playing them, but now it's become a nice way to bond with my guy friends. They aren't uncomfortable to talk about "guy stuff" in front of me as some of the other posters said... probably because they aren't that insecure. As I've said before, the goal is not to get preferential treatment because we're women, it's to get indifference. It's to make gender a nonfactor, but how can it become irrelevant if the gaming industry is clearly catering to one side of the spectrum? Perhaps in the past it made sense to ignore the 'girl gamer's' wants/needs, but there has been such an influx that that is just fiscally irresponsible. If we make up 10-30% of the gaming population, that's a very sizable amount and it is foolish to ignore such a large percentage.
EDIT: and by girl gamer's wants and needs, I mean making a female character option available, not in adding a cooking minigame... lawlz.
There are attention whore girls just as there are attention whore guys, the guys just use everything aside from their gender to get the attention.
There's a good article someone wrote for the escapist on girls in MMO's (about how we don't exist on the internet) and it holds a lot of truth. A lot of the time we don't ask for different treatment, but we get it anyways. Is it fair to yell at the entirety of the female gaming community because guys feel bad ganking a girl? No. And gender shouldn't bother you.
It took my friends a while to accept that I play video games and have some degree of skill at playing them, but now it's become a nice way to bond with my guy friends. They aren't uncomfortable to talk about "guy stuff" in front of me as some of the other posters said... probably because they aren't that insecure. As I've said before, the goal is not to get preferential treatment because we're women, it's to get indifference. It's to make gender a nonfactor, but how can it become irrelevant if the gaming industry is clearly catering to one side of the spectrum? Perhaps in the past it made sense to ignore the 'girl gamer's' wants/needs, but there has been such an influx that that is just fiscally irresponsible. If we make up 10-30% of the gaming population, that's a very sizable amount and it is foolish to ignore such a large percentage.
EDIT: and by girl gamer's wants and needs, I mean making a female character option available, not in adding a cooking minigame... lawlz.
...meh? So, what, you're saying we're validated at getting a bit irked when girlfriends want to take up our time? Then can you help us communicate this to our girls, that they might understand?
One of my biggest problems with the gaming community isn't the content it's the attitudes. I find my opinions and views completely discounted due to the usually accidental reveal of my gender. People have posted steaming vitriol about me on forums when they've discovered that I dare to be a woman who is a size 14. Do they really expect female gamers to not look like male gamers only female?
On a tangential note the most gender neutral game I've played recently is Saint Row 2, where the gender of the main character doesn't affect the plot or his/her ability to run down the street in both 6 inch heels and a baggy hoody.
On a tangential note the most gender neutral game I've played recently is Saint Row 2, where the gender of the main character doesn't affect the plot or his/her ability to run down the street in both 6 inch heels and a baggy hoody.
fine... girl can play games, invade our personal space will you... take this away from us... ok fine... im gonna go put on a skirt, take that away from the females.
The thing is that the gender divide is growing smaller and smaller. Quite honestly its unfair becasue it is considered normal, and fair for a girl to want to step into a mans world. Clothing is a great example, walk down any street and i guarantee just about every female you see will be wearing pants. How many guys to you see, not counting national dress like kilts, wearing skirts? This is a problem for me really because I am now starting to feel like the disenfranchised sex, it is maybe not socially desirable, but still accepted for women to engage in masculine activity, wear masculine clothing and generally travel into the male social space. It is however not looked on with any kind of acceptance when a man tries to enter the feminine social space. To continue the clothing example I like to wear skirts, its not cross dressing but i just think they look cool, but i get stared at like im a freak or treated like im a girl despite my hairy chin and deep voice. So why am I a freak for wearing a skirt when millions of women wear pants? not really fair is it. So women can stop complaining about guys resisting "the invasion of their social space", because if we did the same to you we would become social outcast, and in a worst case scenario get diagnosed with a mental illness. Feminists talk about gaining equal rights by letting women do all that a man can, but in reality all your doing is help reinforce masculinity as more desirable than femininity. blah...
The thing is that the gender divide is growing smaller and smaller. Quite honestly its unfair becasue it is considered normal, and fair for a girl to want to step into a mans world. Clothing is a great example, walk down any street and i guarantee just about every female you see will be wearing pants. How many guys to you see, not counting national dress like kilts, wearing skirts? This is a problem for me really because I am now starting to feel like the disenfranchised sex, it is maybe not socially desirable, but still accepted for women to engage in masculine activity, wear masculine clothing and generally travel into the male social space. It is however not looked on with any kind of acceptance when a man tries to enter the feminine social space. To continue the clothing example I like to wear skirts, its not cross dressing but i just think they look cool, but i get stared at like im a freak or treated like im a girl despite my hairy chin and deep voice. So why am I a freak for wearing a skirt when millions of women wear pants? not really fair is it. So women can stop complaining about guys resisting "the invasion of their social space", because if we did the same to you we would become social outcast, and in a worst case scenario get diagnosed with a mental illness. Feminists talk about gaining equal rights by letting women do all that a man can, but in reality all your doing is help reinforce masculinity as more desirable than femininity. blah...
I hate to be a buzz kill but it's all in your heads; there is really nothing between the legs of the characters you play as in video games (unless you're playing a mod) they might as well be hermaphrodites or human shaped sea sponges, specially in first person games. If there is a problem it's in the way the game is made; if gameplay becomes gender role specific, culturally specific or any other denomination you can think of then it fails because not every one will relate to the game. If you look at it logically most games try to be gender neutral specially JRPGS *joke*, unless the story of the game requires it.
I'm actually fairly certain that the resources needed to make another model in multiplayer are miniscule, if that's what you mean, if you mean like having an entirely new character for story mode, then yes, it is a big job.
I'm not sure what you're asking us though, do you want us to agree that 'girl gamers' ***** too much about stuff? or what?
MY OPINION: yes, 'girl gamers' ***** a lot, but girl anythings ***** a lot too, it's a fact of life that cannot be stopped and/or changed.
I kid, they do however, need to shut up, it's annoying to hear about how guys/games are so sexist and how they want equal treatment.
Guys are territorial creatures that will be hostile to anything that 'doesn't belong there' I.E. females in gaming.
ALSO: when you go onto the internet, specifically XBOX live or PSN, your age is reduced by half, no naturally their going to be asstards, but then again they'll be asstards to other guys aswell
I'm not sure what you're asking us though, do you want us to agree that 'girl gamers' ***** too much about stuff? or what?
MY OPINION: yes, 'girl gamers' ***** a lot, but girl anythings ***** a lot too, it's a fact of life that cannot be stopped and/or changed.
I kid, they do however, need to shut up, it's annoying to hear about how guys/games are so sexist and how they want equal treatment.
Guys are territorial creatures that will be hostile to anything that 'doesn't belong there' I.E. females in gaming.
ALSO: when you go onto the internet, specifically XBOX live or PSN, your age is reduced by half, no naturally their going to be asstards, but then again they'll be asstards to other guys aswell
I miss Afghan-Caps from old games (Ageless Faceless Gender-Neutral Culturally Ambiguous Person).
But I do want to say one thing about the reason not every protagonist can be female. Take Gears of War: Yes, the plot is all lame, but what characterizes the game in a nice sort of B-movie action way is the badass hard-talking of the main characters. If it were some really muscley woman called "Megan Fenix" the "You're being shamlessly catered to" radar in my mind just goes way off and I can't take ANYTHING seriously in it anymore. More than that, she'd probably just seem like a jerk by never having anything but a super-tough face. Contrast that with Alyx from HL2, the one character I think was written perfectly as a female lead, who actually seems to fit her role rather well; many of the things she and Gordon do are centered around helping other people in the HL2 world. As bad as it is, I think people are a bit more used to guys being all "I'm gonna rip your head off". And since so many dark and edgy action games are like that, only guys seem to fit.
As for girls playing online, I really hope no one is attempting to make a big deal of it and I apologize if the general consensus is "Pics plz". Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if there was anyone actively "against" it.
But I do want to say one thing about the reason not every protagonist can be female. Take Gears of War: Yes, the plot is all lame, but what characterizes the game in a nice sort of B-movie action way is the badass hard-talking of the main characters. If it were some really muscley woman called "Megan Fenix" the "You're being shamlessly catered to" radar in my mind just goes way off and I can't take ANYTHING seriously in it anymore. More than that, she'd probably just seem like a jerk by never having anything but a super-tough face. Contrast that with Alyx from HL2, the one character I think was written perfectly as a female lead, who actually seems to fit her role rather well; many of the things she and Gordon do are centered around helping other people in the HL2 world. As bad as it is, I think people are a bit more used to guys being all "I'm gonna rip your head off". And since so many dark and edgy action games are like that, only guys seem to fit.
As for girls playing online, I really hope no one is attempting to make a big deal of it and I apologize if the general consensus is "Pics plz". Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if there was anyone actively "against" it.
I'll take 2 girls from am RP server on Half Life 2: Death Match I frequent. If your unfamiliar with the game type or even they game, it's pretty much a small FPS map made into a small MMOFPS, confusing I know, if you have anymore questions Google might help.
Anyways the point of girl gamers, There's a girl on my server named Ms.Loveable, She's ignorant, disrespectful and overall an attention whore, makeing the gaming experience on the server while she's on really unpleasant. The only thing she knows how to do is call you an asshole if you complain about her behavior or blow your brains out (Usually something you don't do on a RP server, because you drop your money when you die).
She's also has a better house and more money then the admin on the server, thanks to her fans/virtual boyfriend.
The next example of a girl gamer is called Britney, I never really got to know her as well as i know Ms.Loveable but when she was on she would generally be very respectful. She would always give weapons to new players and help them out, she would do massive drops of money in the middle of the map so new players/casual players could afford stuff. She also helped code the map. She was pretty much the opposite of Ms.Loveable.
What I'm trying to say is that girl gamers can be rude attention whores like Ms.Loveable or respectful gamers who help build communities like Britney.
Anyways the point of girl gamers, There's a girl on my server named Ms.Loveable, She's ignorant, disrespectful and overall an attention whore, makeing the gaming experience on the server while she's on really unpleasant. The only thing she knows how to do is call you an asshole if you complain about her behavior or blow your brains out (Usually something you don't do on a RP server, because you drop your money when you die).
She's also has a better house and more money then the admin on the server, thanks to her fans/virtual boyfriend.
The next example of a girl gamer is called Britney, I never really got to know her as well as i know Ms.Loveable but when she was on she would generally be very respectful. She would always give weapons to new players and help them out, she would do massive drops of money in the middle of the map so new players/casual players could afford stuff. She also helped code the map. She was pretty much the opposite of Ms.Loveable.
What I'm trying to say is that girl gamers can be rude attention whores like Ms.Loveable or respectful gamers who help build communities like Britney.
Ok, couldnt be arsed to read entire thread so dont know if this has been quoted yet but,
"This is the internet, where men are men, women are men, and children are the feds."
My lil sis (ok 20 aint little anymore but..) is a bit of a gamer havin 2 older bro's who are massive gamers, my fiancee plays more games than I do (and im jealous) even my bloody gran plays brain training, so girl gamers aint mythical, they're all around us, and gaming stopped being a guy things ages ago.
As for sexism in games, well sex sells. Always has, always will. U could say the lack of that many FAT guys in games (unless its a comedy thing) is to appeal to women as much as tits and arse appeal to me
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And yeah im one of those that always roll's female toons in games, not cuz i wanna be transgender (lol) but cuz id rather look at a female arse than a guys arse...Unless its my arse in the mirror, cuz my arse is fuckin hot yall. =P
"This is the internet, where men are men, women are men, and children are the feds."
My lil sis (ok 20 aint little anymore but..) is a bit of a gamer havin 2 older bro's who are massive gamers, my fiancee plays more games than I do (and im jealous) even my bloody gran plays brain training, so girl gamers aint mythical, they're all around us, and gaming stopped being a guy things ages ago.
As for sexism in games, well sex sells. Always has, always will. U could say the lack of that many FAT guys in games (unless its a comedy thing) is to appeal to women as much as tits and arse appeal to me
.And yeah im one of those that always roll's female toons in games, not cuz i wanna be transgender (lol) but cuz id rather look at a female arse than a guys arse...Unless its my arse in the mirror, cuz my arse is fuckin hot yall. =P
Ah, I enjoy it when there's posts like this on these sort of discussions. Mainly so I can say this: You sir/madam (I'm going to assume madam) are being incredibly ignorant, offensive and are a perfect example of the worst parts of feminism. I'd say that around one tenth of your comments hold any merit. The vast majority just being rude and attacks at either guys or Dahni. If your opinion is valid I think it would be very possible to support it without attacking your opposition. If you disagree with someone's opinion, go ahead and insult them. It does not help your argument whatsoever. As for blaming her on rape culture, that is completely idiotic. She is being realistic and accepting the fact that there is a majority of male gamers and who'd of guessed, there actually is. If you have an issue with other people having opinions then thats your problem.Flos said:
Do people really give a shit about this?
I'm female. I don't. If I a guy is rude to me, I tell him to fuck off, we have a laugh about it and then it's done.
Maybe once people reach a certain age they get over this shit. Once everyone matures a little bit, they knock that crap off. That sexist crap was only around when I was a teenager, once the guys I hung out with matured, they stopped.
People should let it go. Some male gamers are assholes, some female gamers are pretentious bitches.
Everyone else is just around to have fun.
I'm female. I don't. If I a guy is rude to me, I tell him to fuck off, we have a laugh about it and then it's done.
Maybe once people reach a certain age they get over this shit. Once everyone matures a little bit, they knock that crap off. That sexist crap was only around when I was a teenager, once the guys I hung out with matured, they stopped.
People should let it go. Some male gamers are assholes, some female gamers are pretentious bitches.
Everyone else is just around to have fun.