Girls and the games aimed at men

[annoyinglizardvoice]

My pet hate is how women are depicted in fantasy RPGs: Dainty little things who can lift a sword and fight despite having the figure of a fashion model.

I can agree with that one. I want warriors to actually look like warriors, regardless of gender.


Oddly, most of the fps fans I know are female.
If you're customising an avatar for online play, I don't see why they haven't bothered to put a possibility to play a female character, but I understand entirly if they are only allowing people to use male characters in the main story.

 

[funguy2121]

the day that nintendo release a zelda game with zelda as the main character kicking serious arse in the way that i think most of us believe she can, is the day that i can officially declare myself able to die happy.

Ocarina of Time had that.

Ever heard of Shiek?

 

[Evil Tim]

I do it because you bore me.

I think you do it because you haven't got a real argument to bring to the table, actually, which is why you've failed to reply to the points I've been bringing up with any form of actual rebuttal. There's literally no good reason why there shouldn't be an option to play as either gender in multiplayer as long as it doesn't alter the balance of play, given how much more unrealistic many other aspects of the scenario are.

 

[Evil Tim]

I think I do it because you bore me.

I think if I bored you so much you wouldn't keep making halfassed replies to my posts instead of ignoring them, sparky. Face it, you don't have an answer.

 

[Pimppeter2]

It seems like you're just categorizing these games as man games.

can you not enjoy it if it doesn't have a female main/choose able character?

Is it that big of a deal if you play as the male spartan?

I mean, it doesn't change gameplay at all.

 

[funguy2121]

A possible reason why many female (and male) characters are the way they are in video games is because so many games today are action games, and action games (like action movies) often have stereotypical characters. Things are different in adventure games, CRPGs and JRPGs.

There could be more female appeasement out there. True that the gaming industry is widely male-dominated, but that's changing and I think that the gaming companies are recognizing that little by little. Are they doing this enough? I'd say no, and that's true in so many other aspects of our society too. Women have come a long way, but they still have a ways to go to be equally recognized.

They are more than equally recognized, and while games may be skewed towards men you'll find that television is skewed towards women.

According to video games, a woman must have breasts that are at least a C cup, a gorgeous face, fit (but not too fit, guys don't like muscles most of the time), feminine, and revealing. She can't be too deep, either, she can only inspire the protagonist to be deeper himself. A woman is a lot like a vase: she is meant to be beautiful and enhance the environment, but doesn't actually affect that environment.

And I suppose men in video games are all average Joes? No, they are muscular space marines or other types of action heroes. Many if not most video game characters are walking masses of cliches, regardless of gender.

Many say that there is no need for feminism because women are equal now. This is not entirely true, not by a long shot.

It's completely true. Women are equal now, in some cases far more equal than men. Feminism's goal is not equality, but warfare against men (and any women who don't get on board the feminist train). If you want equality, you have to fight feminism.

Also, be thankful you're not (I assume) a BLACK female gamer like me. I think the grand total of black female video game characters is 1 1/2 (Rochelle in L4D2 is one...Sheva from RE5 only counts as half in my vote since she's more of an afterthought thrown in to say "Hey, RE5 isn't racist! Here's a "black" chick!" IMO).

Gosh, you're right. She just wasn't black enough [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SassyBlackWoman]! Also, only African Americans are black, actual Africans are just fronting.

They didn't have any need to include a black character just because RE5 is "racist," since it clearly isn't racist. Unless it's racist to depict Africa as having lots of black people in it.

See in this situation, such as playing as a woman in MW2 is that people care if girls die.

No they don't, and citing a real life incident as proof does not work for very obvious reasons.

I'm picking on this quote because it shows a lot of pretty typical thinking, but really: do RPGs have more female characters because women play them or do women play RPGs because you can play as a female character?

CRPGs allow you to be a woman because CRPGs are based on creating a customized character. Gender is just one of the choices you have to make.

One of the things that really got me about Sheva was that she didn't even look black. She has straight hair, moderately dark skin, and basically Caucasian facial features. I mean, I guess you can't expect too much from a Japanese game company. Japan is pretty good at the "racism by way of ignorance" thing. I just find it depressing.

Sheva was modelled after a real person, Michelle Van der Water [http://www.residentevilrealm.com/attori/michelle-vanderwater-interview.html]. Not every black woman looks like a sistah from the (American) hood.

There is no reason really. The MW2 devs were lazy, as they were with many aspects of the game. Although, you can imagine the hazing some players might receive because of their female character.

Except there wouldn't be any "hazing." I have never seen such a thing in any of the MMORPGs I've played or in Left 4 Dead. People don't give a shit what your character looks like.

Also, some players might have some weird problem with shooting female characters.

No.

Do you even play video games?

RE5 could fairly be accused of racism. A bunch of black people running out of mud huts going "ooga booga" and literally chucking spears? No, that's not racist. Also, I wouldn't throw my hat in any political ring if I didn't understand that equal cannot be a superlative.

Women are not equal in rights to men. Even though the majority of TV targets them, there are "boy's clubs" in just about every occupation, in the military, and in the government. There is a very narrow view of what women are supposed to be (the sort of view that you share): demure, quiet, showing skin, and knowing their place. Women that stray in any way from this "path" are treated as outsiders.

"Feminism" is itself a very expansive term. It is true that many who call themselves feminists are not seeking equality but rather an outlet for their rage. But "warfare?" Warfare? Are you informed politically by James Dobson or Glenn Beck?

See, I like mouthy, strong-willed women with smarts and attitude. I also like tits, but there are tits runnin' around all over the place. A woman like this is harder to find. And she tends to call herself a "feminist" as well. It doesn't mean that she wants to wage war on man.

As for your claims that men have less rights than women, I recommend you look at pay scales for men and women in any profession in any city in the world (please exclude modeling and prostitution).

 

[PiCroft]

Anyway, to the OP:

I'm a gamer, I'm female and I have a love of FPS based games. I play Halo 3 online and recently Modern Warfare 2. These games and many other I enjoy are very much aimed at the male demograhpic, with males overwhelmingly dominating the player base it's pretty obvious that this is the right group to market to. But there are girls that play these, I'm one of them and very occasionally (maybe once a week) I come across another girl.



So, Escapist community, what are you thoughts on this? Do you think the could be a little more for those of us females that enjoy these games? And, what are your thoughts on the portyal of females in games?

Thinking of non-FPS games, there seems to be a decent amount of female characters who aren't the stereotypical "save me" damsels in distress, but in FPSs there does seem to be a lack of heroines. This might be because FPSs are traditionally male-dominated, but I'm sure that will change over time. I think for the forseeable future you and other women gamers are going to have to grin and bear this kind of thing, at least as far as the Modern Warfare-esque games go.

Something that may or may not interest you though: there was some discussion over whether the new Thief game would have a female protagonist. In fact there was a mod for Thief 2, a big-ass fan-made campaign with a female protagonist, Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age.

 

[Evil Tim]

No, I'm pretty sure you just bore me.

You're not into this 'contributing to the debate' deal, are you? It's sort of the only real point of posting on a message board. If you're not going to bother to defend your points, I'll just take that as your concession that you can't, are posting 'you bore me' because you're too much of a coward to admit it, and be on my way. And to predict your next hi-lariously clever and witty post, I am aware the above probably also bores you.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

I don't think it's sexist, just that it makes a game realistic. Face it, there's a helluva lot less females in real life scenarios often portrayed in FPS', therefore, there won't be all that many female characters.

 

[stompythebeast]

well, the game might be realistic enough, that it follows the US Military's law on no female front-line combatants? If you remember in CoD4 there was a female Cobra pilot you rescue. Then again, its a choice ( or complete ignorance) by the developer to add a female avatar or voice. But then again, whats the point, half the guys will be using it, so its not like you are going to stand out and show off you are a girl.

 

[funguy2121]

Does it matter whether the pixels in the stupid space armour suit in the turgid console FPS you play have imaginary vaginas or penises? 'Alpha Male' is a term for the male leader of a pack of animals. If you don't like it, go play Tomb Raider. Or Metroid.

The reason why FPS is dominated by male characters is that war is dominated by male characters. What proportion of soldiers who actually shoot at the enemy (and get killed by the enemy) are female? There are plenty of games offering the opportunity to be a female character, though I would agree the multiplayer should, generally speaking, allow for female characters. Still, even there, if you're going to complain about only being differentiated by voice in a SPACE MARINE SUIT, you are oversensitive. What do you want to see - powered space tits? If you prefer the sound the male characters make then it is perfectly right that you should have to choose to play a male character.

...and to all the others who think Alpha Male is just an animal reference: please read your Freud and get back to me.

 

[Evil Tim]

well, the game might be realistic enough, that it follows the US Military's law on no female front-line combatants?

Yeah, but really if you consider all the other unrealistic aspects [silly tacticool weaponry, bizarre tactics, nuclear launches that aren't responded to in kind] it would really be par for the course, especially since the MW games take place some indeterminate length of time into the future when such rules could concievably be revised; as a real-life example, it's been recently announced that the USN is reconsidering it's ban on female submariners.

Maybe you should change your name to Boring Tim, I think that would be more appropriate.

I was thirteen once too. You'll grow out of it.

 

[funguy2121]

No, I'm pretty sure you just bore me.

You're not into this 'contributing to the debate' deal, are you? It's sort of the only real point of posting on a message board. If you're not going to bother to defend your points, I'll just take that as your concession that you can't, are posting 'you bore me' because you're too much of a coward to admit it, and be on my way. And to predict your next hi-lariously clever and witty post, I am aware the above probably also bores you.

Because he's a troll, Tim.

 

[MGlBlaze]

The thoughts on the portrayal of females in games are summed up thusly: without meaning to be sexist, the gaming world is generally a man's world. Women are the minority. Thus men will be catered to more. Sad fact. So there's going to be a lot of playing to the bloke's ego: damsel in distress minor characters or an option to be a female, interchangable with a male but it's really just a gimmick.

Well, you get my point. Now I'm off to read Terry Pratchett alone and sob gently into my pillow, like every other night.

Well, there's Samus Aran as well as Joana Dark (as long as you only count the FIRST Perfect Dark), but I see what you mean, and I have for a long time... it's actually really sad.

This video I feel addresses quite a few things;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZVZRsy8N8

Edit;
Oh, there's Alex Vance, too. I think Zoey and Rochelle in the L4D games could count, too.

 

[s0p0g]

well, to make a long story short:
yes, you (as in: gaming women) should be catered to as well as us, since the female gamer population is growing bigger. and while (from what i see) most women play RPGs and MMOs (and i do not mean to abuse them as 3d chatrooms, but to kick some butt in pvp) (and of course those... games supposed to appeal to women; i guess you all know what i'm talking about), there are gaming grrls that play fps or rts or whatever seems more the typical game for men.
but this is a rather old discussion, actually, everyone knows that there are more and more gaming women. and i cannot believe that devs don't know it.
also, it's not too hard to implement something or someone female in games, even if there's a story where the character needs to fit; R6 Vegas 2 is a pretty good example; full customisation of your character, several faces for each gender and so on; it IS possible, and some devs already are on it.

but i guess it'll be getting better for you guys. girls. gamers.
cheers

 

[funguy2121]

Bagodix:

flame on, you crazy diamond! I wonder why I don't bore you like time does.

The fact is, you can't back up a single thing you say. You haven't matured to the point where you can differentiate between arguing and debating. But really, here's my problem with people who are always right: they are frequently wrong.

Enjoy your boring, insipid, materialistic, eating-disordered girlfriend.

 

[CloakedOne]

A possible reason why many female (and male) characters are the way they are in video games is because so many games today are action games, and action games (like action movies) often have stereotypical characters. Things are different in adventure games, CRPGs and JRPGs.

They are more than equally recognized, and while games may be skewed towards men you'll find that television is skewed towards women.

many shows are, but all of television? You might want to look again and a little deeper.

It's completely true. Women are equal now, in some cases far more equal than men. Feminism's goal is not equality, but warfare against men (and any women who don't get on board the feminist train). If you want equality, you have to fight feminism.

whoa! you really need to look up the word "feminism" again from a much more credible source.
Women are not equal. Look at the income rates when compared to men in several fields of occupation. You don't even have to look that far, it's everywhere. We're just much quieter about it today than the overt displays of the past.

Your other points have merit, by the way.