Girls in Gaming

[hunteriv4]

Really MMO's are that bad? My guild on WoW is 90% female and the few males we have treat them like equals. I personally could not give a bigger damn as long as they do there job on the raid nights.

To All:

I do not mind that women be treated fairly in games online. However if you want to get the kind of women you want in-game as NPC's or as PC's, become a game designer and make those kind of games. Otherwise your fucked. Those are my two cents anyway.

We have quite a few women in my guild on WoW as well and none of them complain about constant pic requests.

Then again half of WoW plays female characters, their real gender notwithstanding. I'm included in that half. Why? If I'm going to stare at an ass for hours on end it better be a woman's ass. I don't consider my sword slashing, magic flinging, armor wearing WoW character an analog for myself in real life.

Isn't that the whole point of games? To be someone else? Do stuff you can't do in real life? One of the girls in our guild plays a male orc because she likes how the shoulders look. I don't know where this idea that you have to play your own gender came about (I've played through both Mass Effect games as both genders simply for the different characterizations).

I can see being somewhat offended by a character in a game with an emphasis on story portraying women poorly. But really what people are complaining about here is somewhat along the same lines of the people who argued Princess Peach was a bad image for women because she keeps getting captured and needs Ron Jeremy...er, Mario to come rescue her repeatedly. Obviously the message is that women are helpless and need to be rescued, and seriously, she needs more depth to her dialog. "MARIO! HELP!" is simply not said with enough feeling. I object! /eyeroll

 

[omega 616]

look me in the eye and say that you ever once bought the game because of boobs

Spend £40 on a game for barely covered boobs or look for free on the Internet at millions of bare boobs, it's an easy decision for any person out to look at boobs.

 

[maninahat]

The definition of chivalry is "polite, kind and unselfish behavior, especially towards women." That doesn't mean that it is exclusive to women.

No, but it still encourages a double standard. We do not talk in terms of a woman being chivalrous. It is invariably a male "virtue". Why don't other men deserve the same respect? And why can't a woman exhibit this characteristic towards others?

In the end, exercising common courtesy - holding a door open, for example - isn't the same as telling a woman she can't vote because she's incapable of rational thought, or following her down a dark alley with a switchblade in hand.

As long as you are willing to hold open the door for other men, then yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. But common courtesy is an example of politeness. It needn't be anything as sanctimonious as chivalry.

 

[Blatherscythe]

It's the worst on MMORPGs
I can't move from one side of a room or area to the other side in the MMO Phantasy Star Universe without some asshole messaging me:

Want to send me a pic?

Best way to deal with them is to be a buzz kill. If your not on ventrilo just type in "I'm a guy [insult]" or agree to send a picture and send something like this.

Spoiler

I think they'll leave you alone if you send them this!

Pretty much don't announce that your a girl in an MMORPG and you should avoid the bulk of the 40 year old virgin horde.

 

[pneuvo]

This is a subject that interests me, since I have daughters age 24 and 19 who are avid gamers. (and no, I don't mean farmville or even sims, though they do play sims)

I tend to discount the opinions of males on this subject, because I saw in the late 60's how it just became "The New Rules for Getting Laid" -- show women how much you respect them and feel they are being mistreated. Be their ally in this struggle. I'm sure this was true of even me, though I didn't want it to be. (hormones will not be denied)

So what is objectifying? It seemed to mean stripping away emotion, personality, and any respect that went with those things, leaving nothing but an object. Pretty terrible, eh? Except that I believe the majority of men and women objectify themselves. How are they going to treat others with more respect than they allow themselves?

It would be nice if this would change, but even so, I think most of us can find satisfaction within the existing framework. Respect yourself, and demand respect for more than society's yardstick measures and you will find people who care about you, and even game companies that want to give you what you want the world to be.

Sorry about the soap box.

 

[Grampy_bone]

I disagree with this entire article. Why is it that MEN complain about beautiful women in videogames? They're being "Objectified?" Here's a clue: Beauty is a core part of femininity there I said it. If an idealized male character is strong, powerful, and dominant; an idealized female character will be physically attractive. And the thing is: women don't mind this as much as you think.

Samus Aran is not a role model for anyone. The character is an empty husk you inhabit while you shoot aliens. Really, Samus objectifies women more than any character named here. Yes. Think about it. Her personality and gender have no bearing on the game whatsoever. The only time she bothers to act female at all is to give the player a cheesecake shot. "Oh, BTW I'm a girl, here are my ta-tas!" I'd rather see 1000 more Bayonettas than another Samus Aran.

Invariably "good role model" for women means "act like a man." If a woman in a game acts the least bit girly...whoops! She's objectifying women now! She's an offensive steroetype! Blah blah blah. And all these complaints come from men. Women really just don't care.

I have never met a female gamer who, in a game with a character creator like an MMO or Rock Band, did not create the sexiest character possible.

 

[maninahat]

I had a thought. "Getting the girl" is an almost obligatory objective in videogames. How often do you see the inverse when a woman is a protagonist? How often does the girl go out of the way to get the guy? Could you see Faith from Mirror's Edge falling in love and rescuing the Prince? Could you see her being swept in the arms of a Prince that rescues her?

Notice how female protagonists often have a prickly/icy demeanor and focus entirely on getting the job done, and will pass on anything resembling romance. Lara Croft is probably the prime example of this. Guys however have to get a girl, even if the woman and job are totally unrelated. Bayonetta is one of the few characters who subvert the rule by clearly acknowledging she likes sex.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

I enjoyed the OP. Being a female gamer, it does get kind of old to constantly find your avatar being an impossible form of female perfection. I can kind of understand having an oversexed, underdressed girl in an adult (M) game. But for games that younger people can buy I would like to see more empowering female models used. I guess that what needs to change is for the market to first understand that girl gamers are not just about HAPPY PONYTIME 101 (insert trite and overused girl game title here). We also like to kick ass. We also like to play rpg's and puzzle games. ETC.

Recognize women in the market, and it probably will inspire change. Or we'll just see more men with less clothes on.... which part of me honestly has zero issues with .

tl;dr: Girls like games too. And clothes. And bra's.

 

[_Cake_]

How many good female role models are there alive today in real life. Heck how many good male role models are out there

 

[mushupork3mpire]

Its a good thread this, i've read some compelling arguments here. and i think that there are quite a few female characters now who take up roles that in the past probs wouldnt have featured women.

Rubi from "Wet" i think is a great example, because she is not afraid to get blood on her face and go insane with a katana.

i'm also disgusted with some of my friends who make comments about games with female protagonists and refuse to play them despite how good they are, and making comments about how i completed saints row 2 as a girl, i respect the girls in games. as for girls who PLAY games,guess that kind of thing is a rarity here; would be nice to meet one though, rather than chavvy girls who smoke or ones trying to rip off the Florence and Machine singer.

 

[Tehlanna TPX]

How many good female role models are there alive today in real life. Heck how many good male role models are out there

Good question. I have two daughters (both toddlers) and it makes me kind of sad at what they have to look forward to in terms of heroes. Not much selection.

 

[Blatherscythe]

I hate the sterotype women that Team Ninja designs, I also hate women who act better than men (hardcore feminists). It's pathedic to see women degraded in games, but the only solution to this problem is to have more women designing games, and not just the ones purely made for women.

 

[RedShift]

I have no problem with hot nearly-naked women in my video games. If it's a action game I expect tits, bullets, and blood to fly in all directions. Just as I would if I went to see a movie of the same genre.

However,
If it's a RPG I'd rather see complex personalities and relationships, regardless of gender.

 

[hunteriv4]

look me in the eye and say that you ever once bought the game because of boobs

This part actually makes me laugh. Mass Effect got a ton of flack for the "sex" sequences. The great part is that the same sequences wouldn't have batted an eyelash in a PG-13 movie. I suppose it's less exploitative when the actors are a bunch of polygons and not real people (irony intentional). Even the Hot Coffee mod and Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy sections were R rated level or less. Apparently being able to click and make the polygons move makes it a billion times worse.

I can honestly say I've never bought a game because of boobs. X-Blades is nowhere near my XBox because it's a terrible game. Have I bought good games that include boobs? Sure. Have I played the Tomb Raider games? Yes...they aren't exactly the best games out there but they can be pretty fun. I couldn't even get through Heavenly Sword, however.

I'm an adult. I don't mind things like sexual themes, gross violence, and naughty language in my games (or movies/books/actual life). Depending on the type of game I believe these things enhance the exaggerated setting. Those aren't the only things that sell, however, as Mario, Metroid, and WoW amply demonstrate (if gamers just wanted boobs we'd all be playing Age of Conan).

I'm not sure assuming that just because a game has a female in it (and therefore boobs, just like in real life) people are buying it for the sex appeal. To me that assumption is far more sexist and derogatory than anything the actual game could possibly contain because frankly you've just admitted that all women are inherently sex objects simply by existing. And I disagree.

 

[JimJamJahar]

You know, the one thing I'd like to see in games that is most likely never to happen? I'd like to see an RPG, where you choose gender/appearance/personality at the startup, that doesn't outline the canon as male. Most of them I've run into, do, from Male Revan all the way to Commander Shepard.

I've always thought the storylines in games like KotOR and Morrowind would be more interesting if Revan and the Nerevarine were female, anyway.

Actually, the canon for KotOR 2 has the lead as a female

 

[Grampy_bone]

This is a subject that interests me, since I have daughters age 24 and 19 who are avid gamers. (and no, I don't mean farmville or even sims, though they do play sims)

I tend to discount the opinions of males on this subject, because I saw in the late 60's how it just became "The New Rules for Getting Laid" -- show women how much you respect them and feel they are being mistreated. Be their ally in this struggle. I'm sure this was true of even me, though I didn't want it to be. (hormones will not be denied)

So what is objectifying? It seemed to mean stripping away emotion, personality, and any respect that went with those things, leaving nothing but an object. Pretty terrible, eh? Except that I believe the majority of men and women objectify themselves. How are they going to treat others with more respect than they allow themselves?

It would be nice if this would change, but even so, I think most of us can find satisfaction within the existing framework. Respect yourself, and demand respect for more than society's yardstick measures and you will find people who care about you, and even game companies that want to give you what you want the world to be.

Sorry about the soap box.

Ha ha, I think this guy has it right. "Oh look at me, I am so concerned for the plight of women, I empathize with them and respect them! Now, want to go back to my place?" Invariably it seems that men who try to advocate female empowerment are just tools trying to get laid.

 

[XJ-0461]

I remember when I first player Uncharted: Drake's Fortune; I thought that Elena was a fantastic example of a good and believable female character (apart from the 'I never used a gun but can suddenly kick virtual pirate ass as soon as i pick one up' thing) but then in Uncharted 2 they introduce Chloe who, in my opinion is little more than a stereotypical 'seductive bad-ass' character.

...But at the end of the game:

Spoiler

Elena is the one he has the strongest feelings for.

While Chloe is kind of stereotypical, maybe this end implies that Elena is the female character that people should be like/relate with.

But in any case, I agree that Elena is a character that is something different to the usual videogame feamles.

 

[StarofAzura]

You know, the one thing I'd like to see in games that is most likely never to happen? I'd like to see an RPG, where you choose gender/appearance/personality at the startup, that doesn't outline the canon as male. Most of them I've run into, do, from Male Revan all the way to Commander Shepard.

I've always thought the storylines in games like KotOR and Morrowind would be more interesting if Revan and the Nerevarine were female, anyway.

Actually, the canon for KotOR 2 has the lead as a female

Eh, I didn't like that game as much, and I didn't quite count it in my own personal canon. I had forgotten, though, thank you for reminding me.

 

[TheBritish]

look me in the eye and say that you ever once bought the game because of boobs

This part actually makes me laugh. Mass Effect got a ton of flack for the "sex" sequences. The great part is that the same sequences wouldn't have batted an eyelash in a PG-13 movie. I suppose it's less exploitative when the actors are a bunch of polygons and not real people (irony intentional). Even the Hot Coffee mod and Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy sections were R rated level or less. Apparently being able to click and make the polygons move makes it a billion times worse.

I can honestly say I've never bought a game because of boobs. X-Blades is nowhere near my XBox because it's a terrible game. Have I bought good games that include boobs? Sure. Have I played the Tomb Raider games? Yes...they aren't exactly the best games out there but they can be pretty fun. I couldn't even get through Heavenly Sword, however.

I'm an adult. I don't mind things like sexual themes, gross violence, and naughty language in my games (or movies/books/actual life). Depending on the type of game I believe these things enhance the exaggerated setting. Those aren't the only things that sell, however, as Mario, Metroid, and WoW amply demonstrate (if gamers just wanted boobs we'd all be playing Age of Conan).

I'm not sure assuming that just because a game has a female in it (and therefore boobs, just like in real life) people are buying it for the sex appeal. To me that assumption is far more sexist and derogatory than anything the actual game could possibly contain because frankly you've just admitted that all women are inherently sex objects simply by existing. And I disagree.

I don't mind sex, nudity, violence and gore. I have problems when it doesn't exist for any reason other than it's existence. I acutally liked the first Saw movie because there was a reason for the grusome things in it, but by the last movie it was simply gory because "gore sells". In the same way, I think a lot of games have nudity and violence not because it adds anything but because it sells.
Mass Effect, it kinda added something to the plot. The game largely invovles the growing relationships of the characters and it's a logical progression. If the game had all of the female characters walking around topless yet no reference or reason was ever given for it, that'd be different.
I don't even care if the game is pointedly "this is a game for guys who want to stare at boobs" (why I didn't say I was insulted by DOA), but it's annoying when it happens in an otherwise serious and realistic game.

Ha ha, I think this guy has it right. "Oh look at me, I am so concerned for the plight of women, I empathize with them and respect them! Now, want to go back to my place?" Invariably it seems that men who try to advocate female empowerment are just tools trying to get laid.

My girlfriend doesn't visit this forum actually

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

How many threads need to be dedicated to this? Women will never stop being objectified as long as sex continues to sell. And it's not exclusively women. Not so much in videogames, but in anime there are a LOT of fangirl squeal inducing (often literally homosexual) guys that no strait man could even remotely like as a character. (I couldn't name you any because they have impossible names and the only reason I know of them is a short run relationship with a japanophile) And drawing attention to female gamers, even if it's to say "hey gaiz, they're juss liek everyone else" still makes them stand out and contributes to the problem.