God of War 4 so far changed too much for the worse.

[Casual Shinji]

God of War lost the fun for me when they took out the juggling from the 1st game. L1+X was the shit!

It also kinda broke the game though. And you could still juggle in 2 and 3, it just took more effort.

OT: I can understand people's apprehension toward this fourth installment, what with the change in action gameplay and the fact that it's obviously trying to evoke The Last of Us. But at the same time, we've had 4 console installments with the same isometric action brawling gameplay. And by the time Ascension came along Santa Monica felt inclined to change up the gameplay just for the sake of it, which didn't turn out well. So yeah, we've had at least four games with the same mindless action, and by the end it got rather stale and dull. Claims that this new game somehow ruined the franchise are stupid; The franchise was already well spent.

Whether it turns out good remains to be seen, but I'm more interested in this God of War than I would be if it was just another isometric brawler.

This looks to me like their reaction to the realization that they're not gonna be able to beat Bayonetta and games like it in that genre so they went a different way. Hopefully it manages to become something good and not just a ripoff of a different game now.

Why would they need to beat Bayonetta in anything other than sales? I doubt that at any point in developement they felt the looming shadow of Bayonetta hovering over them.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Meh. The gameplay they've shown off is definitely not very interesting. But at least they're trying to keep it fresh. Though that makes getting Kratos back a little counterproductive.

 

[CaitSeith]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Agreed. I can't tell if this kind of posts are hilarious or cringe worthy.

Alot of things are pretty clearly going to suck before you even try it. The real issue is if you can accept when you're wrong.

I agree with that too. But this is not the case. E3 trailers aren't exactly a reliable source for evaluating games, and so far that's the only thing we have.

 

[Saelune]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Agreed. I can't tell if this kind of posts are hilarious or cringe worthy.

Alot of things are pretty clearly going to suck before you even try it. The real issue is if you can accept when you're wrong.

I agree with that too. But this is not the case. E3 trailers aren't exactly a reliable source for evaluating games, and so far that's the only thing we have.

E3 trailers have a history of favoring the worse rather than better end result though.

 

[CaitSeith]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Agreed. I can't tell if this kind of posts are hilarious or cringe worthy.

Alot of things are pretty clearly going to suck before you even try it. The real issue is if you can accept when you're wrong.

I agree with that too. But this is not the case. E3 trailers aren't exactly a reliable source for evaluating games, and so far that's the only thing we have.

E3 trailers have a history of favoring the worse rather than better end result though.

I ain't going to deny that.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Honestly the only thing, THE ONLY THING, that is keeping from just giving up on this game...is the mere fact that its Norse Mythology.

That is quite interesting and honestly something I never really considered since A) I dont care much for god of war beyond the first (even though I finished all 3 eventually and B) I did not watch much of the trailer.

We do not know much about the game yet though and as far as I am aware it still has a lot of development time left maybe their are over the shoulder sections and maybe the camera shifts and we get a fixed one for parts. As for the weapons maybe they change as well I dont know or at this point at least care. GOW 1 was amazing at the time well the first boss was after that not so much and GOW2 took me over 3 years to finish simply because I got bored and left it. The constant QTEs were a nightmare and the combat was spongy as hell which 3 did not fix seriously try and play this after playing Bayonetta or NInja Gaiden or even to a lesser extent DMC 1 and 3 it takes some adjusting.

As far as I am concerned GOW was a dying IP from the 2nd game a one trick pony that would fizzle out. This game just looks like a new game with the GOW license attached and that is how I am treating it. I am guessing they were making a new game but they needed a hook and then someone said hey the GOW license is dormant but its not to old lets use that that should help sales.

As a character I did not like Kratos and not because he was a monster or anything but because he was bland and lacked any form of identity beyond his looks and his anger. I dont even feel one dimensional characters are inherently bad I mean sometimes they can work well but there was nothing here that appealed to me.

Yeah new game though I have no real cares one way or the other. Now whats the bet his son gets killed and he ends up seeking revenge against Odin?

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I absolutely love the original GOW game; Kratos and the whole chaotic, destructive, rage/testosteroned fueled MDK splatterfest that it embodies. The combat was fun, the epic enemies & environments wowed, and Kratos was a supremely interesting character.

So I totally get some of the complaints levelled at the new one, BUT, I'll reserve judgement until I play.

That said, if the new game does go soft on us then it really is a dumb move which totally misses the point of the games in the first place, and the void they filled in modern gaming.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I am guessing they were making a new game but they needed a hook and then someone said hey the GOW license is dormant but its not to old lets use that that should help sales.

I'm sure it was more along the lines of Sony going over to Santa Monica Studio and saying 'Hey guys, we'd like you to make a new God of War. And you know, since we own you... Chop chop.'

Yeah new game though I have no real cares one way or the other. Now whats the bet his son gets killed and he ends up seeking revenge against Odin?

That seems unlikely. For one thing, from the initial footage this new game seems to want to steer clear of having Kratos be that kind of character anymore. And from the looks of it it appears Kratos' son is actually going to learn things and collect EXP as the game goes on. I've heard people theorizing that the kid might be Thor, as he shoots lightning from his bow, but I don't know. Maybe he'll die in the end, but I doubt Santa Monica would so drastically change God of War only to settle on telling the same rage filled story of revenge.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Agreed. I can't tell if this kind of posts are hilarious or cringe worthy.

Alot of things are pretty clearly going to suck before you even try it. The real issue is if you can accept when you're wrong.

That's a subjective point though, especially when we've only seen a snippet. GoW has been one of my favorites for just kicking back with some fun, well-designed action adventure. The combat was never considered deep by any means, but it has always left ample room for free styling and experimentation by the player.

Having said that, the formula was clearly growing stale, and while they have clearly adopted a well-established cinematic design (it's Sony after all) for this revamp, it's still far too imprudent to write the whole thing off. The series has so far been more action than adventure, and now they're leaning more toward the latter. There isn't a whole lot of grey area for a series like this as far as design is concerned. The change was bound to incite knee-jerk reactions from quite a few people who loved the old style, but if anyone can cook up surprises from this new direction it would be Santa Monica Studio. I'm expecting to have much more fun with it than The Last of Us or RE4 for example.

 

[Saelune]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Agreed. I can't tell if this kind of posts are hilarious or cringe worthy.

Alot of things are pretty clearly going to suck before you even try it. The real issue is if you can accept when you're wrong.

That's a subjective point though, especially when we've only seen a snippet. GoW has been one of my favorites for just kicking back with some fun, well-designed action adventure. The combat was never considered deep by any means, but it has always left ample room for free styling and experimentation by the player.

Having said that, the formula was clearly growing stale, and while they have clearly adopted a well-established cinematic design (it's Sony after all) for this revamp, it's still far too imprudent to write the whole thing off. The series has so far been more action than adventure, and now they're leaning more toward the latter. There isn't a whole lot of grey area for a series like this as far as design is concerned. The change was bound to incite knee-jerk reactions from quite a few people who loved the old style, but if anyone can cook up surprises from this new direction it would be Santa Monica Studio. I'm expecting to have much more fun with it than The Last of Us or RE4 for example.

My point is its not unfair for someone to be cynical of the quality of something just because its not out yet.

 

[hermes]

It is pointless to discuss this. I was a huge GoW fan since the first one, but by the time we reached 3 the writing was laughably pathetic and the franchise had been milked dry. Ascension proved that, without some serious overhaul, the franchise was as good as dead. This new game seems to be some serious overhaul indeed, so it can be Resident Evil 4 good or Dungeon Keeper bad, but at least is something.

 

[happyninja42]

Okay, the god of war series has been basically a testosterone fueled male power fantasy with no barriers in what it wants to do. Which is ok, I enjoyed that experience also, and I identified why it pulled so many cathartic strings while playing and appreciated that unbridled glee. They didn't care about writing a relatable character

Untrue, the first game had a very relateable Kratos, he was literally a Greek Tragedy turned into a video game. A man drunk on his own power and ambition, ends up destroying the only thing in his life that he loved. And then swears revenge on the source of that tragedy, the God that he served, who drove him to that action. In doing so, he ends up getting revenge, but not redemption, and ends up taking up the mantle of the god he slew. So now, he is a morose diety, bestowed with great power, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted. That's classic writing there, and made for a great game.

that much is obvious to us all...they cared about making badass shit happens in style. That was a fun experience undoubtedly. Why dissect a pure conduit? I believe that is a waste of valuable neuron burning. Dissect the reason why the conduit was the end result.

Because not everyone is just looking for "a testosterone fueled male power fantasy" ? I know I got tired of Kratos real quick in GW 2, and despised him by GW 3. This wouldn't be a problem, if I wasn't forced to be playing as him. When you make a completely irredeemable shit stain as the main character of a game, then I am forced to do the actions of an irredeemable shit stain, and I personally don't enjoy that. Some people might get a kick out of being the most despicable person they can in video games, but I'm not one of them.

But you can only keep that up so much, eventually there needs to come the period of growing up, maturing, becoming self aware enough to know your strengths but not to constantly push them, because if you keep pushing the extremes, you will run out of ways to create "wow" moments pandering to literally one specific emotion. Creators grow up, writers, all these people don't want to ride on their past tropes, not ones with a sense of integrity at least. You have to understand that passionate writers will not keep writing and trying the same old shit purely because it is popular. They want to experiment and go for more nuance. It's kind of like how so many disliked Guy Ritchie's "Revolver" film because it wasn't another lock stock or snatch. He has openly said he will never do a lock stock 2 just because that's what they expect him to make. Creators grow up and want to tell deeper stories. Don't let nostalgia hold you back, dude.

I agree with this. But not only do the creators of the series grow up, so do the players. Most people I have seen talk about God of War series on this site have a very common theme to their comments. Paraphrasing " I liked Kratos in GW 1, but he became a deuchenozzle in GW2 and 3. Really sucked the fun out of the series for me by the end of it."

That's not a good mood to try and continue a franchise. When you have openly driven away a significant, if not major portion of your fanbase with how you presented the character, you need to rethink where you are taking the series if you want anyone to actually buy it.

I know personally, I had zero intention of buying any other GoW games, after the ending of 3. It left such a bad taste in my mouth, that I didn't want to give them any more of my money, regardless of how much fun the mechanics could be, the epic SCION-esque combat sequences and everything. I couldn't get past the shit protagonist, and his completely deplorable motivations. And I suspect I'm not alone in this mindset. But, then this trailer comes around, and they make a point to show that he's no longer the mindless, homicidal psychopath that he was in GW 3, GREAT! He is openly showing that he has learned that "he dun fucked up." and is trying to change. And somehow this is a bad thing?!? If people honestly want Kratos to just stay as he was, after doing all the things he's done, then he isn't an actual person anymore. He's just a robot, to let them live out their evil fantasies of total destruction. Because no actual human would do all the things Kratos did, for the reasons he did them and not realize "wow, I was a fucking idiot that literally destroyed the world because of my blind rage/revenge" NOBODY WOULD STAY THAT WAY AFTER THAT. They would realize they need to make a change in their behavior, because going around destroying worlds because you're butt hurt is a Bad Idea. So he has grown, he has learned, like all people do.

If this is somehow a bad thing for people, they are fucking nuts. You just want the exact same character over and over, no change. Just go replay GW 2 & 3 then. Because clearly you don't want him to change at all, so why should they bother making a new game for you when the old ones do all that for you?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Untrue, the first game had a very relateable Kratos, he was literally a Greek Tragedy turned into a video game. A man drunk on his own power and ambition, ends up destroying the only thing in his life that he loved. And then swears revenge on the source of that tragedy, the God that he served, who drove him to that action. In doing so, he ends up getting revenge, but not redemption, and ends up taking up the mantle of the god he slew. So now, he is a morose diety, bestowed with great power, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted. That's classic writing there, and made for a great game.

The concept was great classic Greek tragedy, but the execution left much to be desired. He's still made unnecessarily dickish for no real reason other than to be edgy.

Kratos' origin being the prime example. He wasn't driven to kill his family by anything other than his own blind, bullheaded rage. Which was already in him before Ares got to him. It's tragic for his family, but Kratos was just a rage fueled idiot who could've avoided everything if he simply took notice of his family in that temple. He wasn't tricked, he was simply fed more power to make him an even bigger asshole.

He would've been a truly tragic character if for example he made a deal with Ares to save his family from some horrible fate. He would then inturn become Ares' assassin/attack dog, forced to perform unspeakable acts all in the name of keeping his family safe. And then through an actual trick Ares could've gotten him to unknowingly kill them. That would've been a proper tragedy.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If nothing else, The Evil Within taught us that gameplay demos mean squat. So let's wait it out.

 

[happyninja42]

Untrue, the first game had a very relateable Kratos, he was literally a Greek Tragedy turned into a video game. A man drunk on his own power and ambition, ends up destroying the only thing in his life that he loved. And then swears revenge on the source of that tragedy, the God that he served, who drove him to that action. In doing so, he ends up getting revenge, but not redemption, and ends up taking up the mantle of the god he slew. So now, he is a morose diety, bestowed with great power, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted. That's classic writing there, and made for a great game.

The concept was great classic Greek tragedy, but the execution left much to be desired. He's still made unnecessarily dickish for no real reason other than to be edgy.

Kratos' origin being the prime example. He wasn't driven to kill his family by anything other than his own blind, bullheaded rage. Which was already in him before Ares got to him. It's tragic for his family, but Kratos was just a rage fueled idiot who could've avoided everything if he simply took notice of his family in that temple. He wasn't tricked, he was simply fed more power to make him an even bigger asshole.

He would've been a truly tragic character if for example he made a deal with Ares to save his family from some horrible fate. He would then inturn become Ares' assassin/attack dog, forced to perform unspeakable acts all in the name of keeping his family safe. And then through an actual trick Ares could've gotten him to unknowingly kill them. That would've been a proper tragedy.

It's been a decade or so since I played GW 1, but I could've sworn in the final reveal with Ares, that he says it was basically his plan the entire time to have Kratos kill his own family, because basically "They were holding you back! Now look at the instrument of destruction you have become without them!" kind of villain logic? Isn't that true, or am I remembering that game wrong at this point? Also, I'm still pretty sure that Ares ordered him to go into that village and kill everyone, him being a loyal servant to Ares and all. So it would still be Ares fault essentially. Yes, Kratos could've shown restraint and caution, but as we both agree, that isn't(wasn't) in his nature. He was a dyed in the wool, drank the koolaid, loyal servant of Ares. If he told him to go somewhere and kill everyone, he'd do it.

But even if it isn't ultimately Ares fault for aiming him at his own family, I still don't think it lessens the tragedy of it. Plenty of stories depict highly skilled assholes, that let their own ego and ambition and bloodlust get in the way of doing The Right Thing, and then they have to try and atone for it, with varying levels of success.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's been a decade or so since I played GW 1, but I could've sworn in the final reveal with Ares, that he says it was basically his plan the entire time to have Kratos kill his own family, because basically "They were holding you back! Now look at the instrument of destruction you have become without them!" kind of villain logic? Isn't that true, or am I remembering that game wrong at this point? Also, I'm still pretty sure that Ares ordered him to go into that village and kill everyone, him being a loyal servant to Ares and all. So it would still be Ares fault essentially. Yes, Kratos could've shown restraint and caution, but as we both agree, that isn't(wasn't) in his nature. He was a dyed in the wool, drank the koolaid, loyal servant of Ares. If he told him to go somewhere and kill everyone, he'd do it.

But even if it isn't ultimately Ares fault for aiming him at his own family, I still don't think it lessens the tragedy of it. Plenty of stories depict highly skilled assholes, that let their own ego and ambition and bloodlust get in the way of doing The Right Thing, and then they have to try and atone for it, with varying levels of success.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but my understanding of a Greek tragedy is that it's supposed to show how mortal men are but playthings for the gods, and that if one of the gods sets their sights on you you're a slave to their will. And to me Kratos never felt like his hand was being guided by anyone other than himself. His "tragedy" is suppposed to sort of reflect that of Hercules who also murdered his family, but he was driven mad by Hera. So his actions where beyond his control due to the malevolence of a god.

Even with Kratos having killed his family in a dumb, violent rage attack, he could've made for a compelling protagonist in the first game, but unfortunately he's still given these moments where he's a right ****. He doesn't show remorse for his past actions through present actions or even behavior, he just keeps on getting others willfully caught up in his slaughter. The fact that it's about Kratos' revenge and not his retribution says it all. It's sort of a side plot/bonus extra that he thinks performing his task will cease his nightmares, but his blind vengeance is front and centre.

What saves the narrative concept of God of War 1 is the story of the architect of the Temple of Pandora. There you really get a sense of a guy who gets taken in and seduced by the gods, and who ends up sacrificing his own family in the process. It's only short notes, but they get the point across. And the size and lunacy of the temple itself hammers home how insane the demands of the gods are and how completing it would've cost his sons their lives and the archtect his sanity.

 

[Silvanus]

There's only so far you can take the "strong man beats up things" formula within a single IP before it loses its impact. If they want to stay fresh, this new direction seems to make sense to me. You'll still have the visceral hacky-slashy combat, it just won't be using exactly the same weapons, and might have a slightly more muted story at times.

 

[hermes]

Untrue, the first game had a very relateable Kratos, he was literally a Greek Tragedy turned into a video game. A man drunk on his own power and ambition, ends up destroying the only thing in his life that he loved. And then swears revenge on the source of that tragedy, the God that he served, who drove him to that action. In doing so, he ends up getting revenge, but not redemption, and ends up taking up the mantle of the god he slew. So now, he is a morose diety, bestowed with great power, but lacking the one thing he truly wanted. That's classic writing there, and made for a great game.

The concept was great classic Greek tragedy, but the execution left much to be desired. He's still made unnecessarily dickish for no real reason other than to be edgy.

Kratos' origin being the prime example. He wasn't driven to kill his family by anything other than his own blind, bullheaded rage. Which was already in him before Ares got to him. It's tragic for his family, but Kratos was just a rage fueled idiot who could've avoided everything if he simply took notice of his family in that temple. He wasn't tricked, he was simply fed more power to make him an even bigger asshole.

He would've been a truly tragic character if for example he made a deal with Ares to save his family from some horrible fate. He would then inturn become Ares' assassin/attack dog, forced to perform unspeakable acts all in the name of keeping his family safe. And then through an actual trick Ares could've gotten him to unknowingly kill them. That would've been a proper tragedy.

It is still a Greek tragedy. In fact, the episode of Kratos being tricked into unwillingly killing his family by some God is straight out of the legend of Hercules.

In fact, Ares did act on the events to kill his family, by sending them into the temple he knew Kratos would attack. Have they not been in that temple (which Kratos didn't know, and Ares owned), they wouldn't have died by his hand. One would argue that a less berserk and bloodthirsty Kratos would have realizes of their presence before killing them, but that action still fits Kratos/Hercules and the way he killed his family.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

"We don't know anything about this game yet BUT HERES HOW MUCH IT SUCKS"

Honestly. How anyone can have a fully formed opinion on a game that isn't even close to release just baffles me. And even so, it's a freaking video game. It's not that big a deal.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

For people not really convinced of GoW's tragic themes, there is a special titled "Unearthing the Legend" that basically explains everything up to the third game as to how it relates to Greek tragedy.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL956EC179981A90E1

Kratos' called to Ares to destroy his enemies in exchange for his life when he uncharacteristically found himself in a compromised position. From that moment on he was bound to Ares...until he killed his family and got a reality check.

Could it have been told more effectively? Probably, but all the elements of a tragedy are definitely there; at least in the first game. The rest is just brooding and revenge sequels.

I like the fact that Kratos is getting a chance at last to come full circle. He is one of Sony's biggest mascots and deserves a proper modern, and more mature narrative arc.