God of War 4 so far changed too much for the worse.

[happyninja42]

Lol, so in other words, this might not turn out so dumb! We won't know until it's out so this whole thread is devolving into subjective speculation.

To be fair, it's been purely subjective speculation from the beginning. All of this discussion about the game is our speculation about if it will suck or be good. So it's not really devolving, merely being what it is xD

 

[BrawlMan]

Perhaps in its very niche genre, but RE4 was generally far from the first TPS game to have an OTS camera. It only gained popularity because "Resident Evil did it".

I only loosely used that as an example about an established series making a significant change within itself. In GoW's case, it will at least be one of the only known Hack n Slash IPs that went to this style. Who knows...aside from making the combat feel more personal, it might also be more visceral, technical, etc.

All we can do is wait for more details at the very least.

Hence, what I mean when I said "rarely an in-between". RE4 may have not done it first, but Shinji nailed it with mainstream gaming. Feel free to name the others "over-the-shoulder" TPS before RE4, because I may or may not remember, nor probably never heard of them either.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Perhaps in its very niche genre, but RE4 was generally far from the first TPS game to have an OTS camera. It only gained popularity because "Resident Evil did it".

I only loosely used that as an example about an established series making a significant change within itself. In GoW's case, it will at least be one of the only known Hack n Slash IPs that went to this style. Who knows...aside from making the combat feel more personal, it might also be more visceral, technical, etc.

All we can do is wait for more details at the very least.

Hence, what I mean when I said "rarely an in-between". RE4 may have not done it first, but Shinji nailed it with mainstream gaming. Feel free to name the others "over-the-shoulder" TPS before RE4, because I may or may not remember, nor probably never heard of them either.

Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, Operation Winback, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, and to some extent Max Payne. There might be others I don't know about but...hmmm, even The Witcher has this perspective now that I think of it; probably even closer gameplay-wise to what the new GoW will be like than those others. Of course, none of them were as zoomed in as RE4, but neither is the new GoW.

There were only two ways of doing a new game: Keep the scripted camera with free movement or go for a behind/centered ala Witcher/TLoU/etc. There is a middle road variant like the Souls games where the player can keep adjusting the camera and move freely, but since GoW's action is more heavy that wouldn't work well.

All I'm saying here is that sure, it's been done before, but why not reserve judgment until the game can be played. AFAIK there hasn't been an all-out hack n slash from this perspective, so perhaps they'll be able to put an interesting twist on it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire, Operation Winback, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, and to some extent Max Payne.

Ooohhh, the third game is a name I have not heard in a very long time. Operation Winback I never knew anything about, and the other the rest I have played.

There were only two ways of doing a new game: Keep the scripted camera with free movement or go for a behind/centered ala Witcher/TLoU/etc. There is a middle road variant like the Souls games where the player can keep adjusting the camera and move freely, but since GoW's action is more heavy that wouldn't work well.

All I'm saying here is that sure, it's been done before, but why not reserve judgment until the game can be played. AFAIK there hasn't been an all-out hack n slash from this perspective, so perhaps they'll be able to put an interesting twist on it.


The only game in this type of genre that worked as an over the shoulder brawler is God Hand. And it's control scheme owed more to Resident Evil 4 than anything else with the addition of dodging with the left analog stick; custom combos for combat variety. The only thing that comes close to second is Mad World (if you're locked-on or focused on to a single enemy) or No More Heroes (once again when locking on). Transformers: Devastation, Lollipop Chainsaw, and Killer Is Dead only go over-the-shoulder when using ranged weaponry. Otherwise they camera movement similar to Souls or Devil May Cry 4 or Bayonetta. Metal Gear Rising only went over-the-shoulder when in blade mode, performing a Zandastsu, or in forced scripted walking segments. No More Heroes 2 had this semi-awkward under-the-shoulder camera angle, if I'm describing it correctly. I have no idea why they decided to overhaul the camera on that one.

Reserving judgement can be said for any game, but there are times when you can tell when something is not right or not up to snuff. I said it before, was never a huge fan of Kratos or the God of War franchise, so it gives me less incentive to play. Had there been a completely new protagonist, then it would color me interested. I would have been hooping, hollering, doing back flips, and screaming like Daffy Duck in celebration. If there comes a time to play GoW IV, I'll give it a try, but odds are that I won't like it. You most likely would enjoy and a few others. but there is nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

The more I watch the trailer, the more I dislike the look of it and the more I agree with the video rant's points.

It's baffling why they've decided to shift the tone of the franchize from pure MDK, rage-fuelled slaughter, to one of heart-felt bonding and emotion.
.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but Casual Shinji pretty much nailed the answer to that a few posts above. Even if the game kept *most* of the older style and dressed it up a bit, it would've only been a pig in a dress at this point. People were bound to ***** either way, but it's just the state of the industry that a different tone must be set now to garner (or perhaps even salvage) respect and credibility, even if that tone is groan-inducing to some old school fans.

It's not so much about keeping the old style, it's more about what you get from the game, and what it's purpose is.

The older games at their best were chaotic beat-em-ups, based around destruction & action. They filled the modern day void left by games such as Golden Axe, Final Fight etc. Essentially turn brain off & kill things. Yes there were odd puzzles, but they were really only there to break things up. The epic, OTT slaughter was what it really gave us.

Unfortunately this game doesn't look to give me any of that. It looks slow, restrictive, cumbersome, earthy, and sentimental. I don't see any "wow" factor in the trailer. I don't want to care about killing. I want to feel like a full on, murderous, village pillaging, raping, badass who has no limits.

And come-on, who cares about credibility? It's a computer game, not a political leader. To me the games shift is like seeing Arnie shift from being The Terminator to Kindergarden Cop but worse.

We'll see how it actually turns out, but it just looks to have gone limp in every way. GOW was a popcorn, whirlwind, one night stand where you indulge in all the sick twisted things you can get away with and never speak again in the morning. GOW4 looks about as exciting as dinner at the in-laws.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

This new direction might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it was pretty clear with Ascension - hell even 3 for some - the formula was getting stale.

We've only seen a few minutes of footage that was meant to be more low key on purpose. No point in writing something off that's not even out yet.

 

[Rangaman]

I think Yathzee summed it up best. At the start of God of War, Kratos is in a room with some monsters, gets very angry, and kills all the monsters. At the start of God of Snore, Kratos is following some twelve year-old (apparently his son, though I don't see the resemblance) who we all know will be killed off by the Second Act. Either that or Kratos will die and the game will go Red Dead Redemption on us

That's besides the point though. The point is that Kratos wasn't ever designed to be a likable character, he was designed so that when he murdered several thousand monsters and Ares for something that was entirely his fault, it wouldn't seem out of character. Making a story-focused game on him is a lost cause because he just isn't the type of character you sympathize with.

What's worse is that it seems that they have jeopardized the gameplay as well. In short, it seems to be more focused on pretty visuals than actual gameplay. What we were shown was a "walk and talk" sequence. Why? If you want a cutscene, just make a fucking cutscene. Also, the camera positioning is screwed up. It might sound nitpicky, but the camera is just not suited to traditional God of War combat.

Honestly, I get that you need some form of change to avoid stagnation, but the thing with avoiding stagnation is that you need to retain what made the game enjoyable in the first place, while adding something new. Majora's Mask is the best example of this in my experience. This isn't doing that. In fact, it seems to be completely shirking what made God of War so fun in favor of The Last of Us meets Skyrim.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I think Yathzee summed it up best. At the start of God of War, Kratos is in a room with some monsters, gets very angry, and kills all the monsters. At the start of God of Snore, Kratos is following some twelve year-old (apparently his son, though I don't see the resemblance) who we all know will be killed off by the Second Act. Either that or Kratos will die and the game will go Red Dead Redemption on us

That's besides the point though. The point is that Kratos wasn't ever designed to be a likable character, he was designed so that when he murdered several thousand monsters and Ares for something that was entirely his fault, it wouldn't seem out of character. Making a story-focused game on him is a lost cause because he just isn't the type of character you sympathize with.

What's worse is that it seems that they have jeopardized the gameplay as well. In short, it seems to be more focused on pretty visuals than actual gameplay. What we were shown was a "walk and talk" sequence. Why? If you want a cutscene, just make a fucking cutscene. Also, the camera positioning is screwed up. It might sound nitpicky, but the camera is just not suited to traditional God of War combat.

Honestly, I get that you need some form of change to avoid stagnation, but the thing with avoiding stagnation is that you need to retain what made the game enjoyable in the first place, while adding something new. Majora's Mask is the best example of this in my experience. This isn't doing that. In fact, it seems to be completely shirking what made God of War so fun in favor of The Last of Us meets Skyrim.

The problem is what made God of War fun 5-10 years ago won't cut it today, and that's already been proven. Some people don't like the new direction, but what has been presented so far as to what a revitalized God of War game should look or play like?

Majora's Mask wasn't mechanically very different at all from OoT imo. All it really did was add a plot-driven schedule to the existing formula. Players still controlled Link as they had before, same camera angles and all. The masks as gameplay tools were thoughtful, but really only an extension of other items he's used in past games.

With God of War, I wonder if they did make it a completely new IP if people wouldn't be complaining so much. A bit like what Naughty Dog did with The Last of Us, I suppose if they just called it Uncharted: Apocalypse and left it at that I would've been one of the many that would complain there. The difference with God of War is that they aren't leaving it at that. They decided to stick with the IP for some obvious reasons, but it's branching out into completely new territory. If Kratos isn't designed to be a likable character, then why does he still have so many fans, and get cheers when revealed at E3? There are a lot of people out there that would like to see what destroying a world could do to a demigod that was once a very long time ago, only human.

If people don't care about that, then the solution is simply not to bother playing it.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

The problem is what made God of War fun 5-10 years ago won't cut it today, and that's already been proven.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this chap? When did OTT, in your face, action packed violence stop cutting it in gaming?

For me I still love that aspect of games, I play the likes of Deus Ex as a rampaging badass not some stealthy chap, and I don't get why you think folk have suddenly stopped enjoying full on, OTT virtual violence?

The mechanics may have to change slightly, but at least keep it fast paced and OTT. I'm not saying the new GOW can't work, but people will expect fast-paced, OTT action from the franchize as it was built on that. The emotions we want satisfying are that of base, Murder-Death-Kill desire. "Pow! bam! wham!" Not "walk, talk, cuddle"

The shift for me is similar to when they added all the political elements into the Star Wars prequels - it's not really what the whole thing is about.