Hacking/BOTTING on MMOs is morally superior over hacking FPS etc

[Draksila]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Main problem with his point:

You get into a game with a hacker in a FPS game, you leave the game and find a different one.

You get a botter/RMT/hacker on an MMO server, you're stuck with them for a long time.

That is true but your speaking from greed rather then them affecting you, is that botter 1 shooting you every time you spawn? nop the only aspect is that this person is saving his own time while your killing your 9000th boar even though your not enjoying it, overall

Would you get annoyed if i cheated to get to the last level in a single player game? no you wouldn't the only reason your bashing on botters is that your greedy and want people to suffer through the game because you dont know how to get/make bots

You're assuming a lot. First, you're assuming that the end-game raid crap is all that MMO players care about. Seeing as you're obviously someone more concerned with numbers games than the experience and camaraderie, I can see how you'd miss the wider social aspects of MMOs.

Second, yes, I do get annoyed by people who use hacks and bots to skip to the end of single player games. Why? Because you're invalidating the entire experience the designers were trying to craft for you. You might as well march into their offices and piss all over their cubicles. It's fine if you don't like a game's experience, whether it's an MMO or single-player or FPS or whatever, but the solution to that problem? Don't play the damn game. Leave it to the people who enjoy it for what it is.

Heck, personally, I refuse to even use DLC bypass codes and/or cheats until I've proven I can beat the game without them. Either develop the skill to see the game the way it was intended or go home.

 

[KalosCast]

Lol, botting in an MMO doesn't mimic the actions needed to advance in the game at all. Posting in a troll thread.

 

[A Free Man]

I think the major problem here is that the OP is completely biased. Lets face it you obviously don't like MMOs. It would be similar to me saying its not as bad to cheat in a (Australian) Netball then (Australlian) football, simply because more people watch and play football. But you forget about the people that aren't you and do play MMOs and therefore will be effected by the hackers. The real question is if people don't enjoy grinding in MMOs then you don't enjoy the majority of the game... and so probably shouldn't be playing it. Some people do in fact like grinding, not so much the short term case of repeating the same action but the long term of receiving better items/equipment and eventually being stronger then other players because of it. Imagine if you had worked for 500 hours to amass a really powerful weapon and armor set so you were really strong and then find out that someone with a bot did it in 20 hour by pressing 2 buttons. I think that would be a tad worse then having 1 single game ruined by a hacker for about 2 minutes before you leave (and if you don't leave well thats your fault no one elses).

PS: I actually far enjoy FPS games more my opinion was merely my own general interpretation.

 

[Billska]

I'm inclined to agree, cheating in an FPS in pretty abhorrent, it ruins the game for everyone immediately.

On the flipside, botting in MMOs isn't as bad, you aren't destroying someone else's experience straight away. MMOs aren't exactly competitive like FPS, because you aren't competing in a fast paced competition (at least when botting would be used).

In EVE online it pretty much lets the game bot for you when you aren't online, so yeah that sounds like a plan.

That's not true. Any action done offline in Eve doesn't introduce money into the economy (it simply shifts it around) and thus is no problem. Also, Eve is a hell of a lot more competitive than any FPS as the effects are lasting and shaping the world. In an FPS, you just restart the round. In Eve, you make one mistake and the efforts of the last week to take a system are gone. Also, 1600 people fights in one system.

Don't forget HULKAGEDDON! Where all the botters go to DIE!

 

[KazOondo]

The problem with this argument is you can program an AI to left click on someone's head with a gun just as easily.

 

[Alon Shechter]

On the Flip side hacking FPS game or any competitive game in general is not very moral at all

MMOs are competitive games...

My number is higher then your therefore i win, How is that competitive? sure if you say competition of who can sit at there computer longer killing boars sure

That's your defense? That MMOs don't take any skill to play? Wow, that is pretty pathetic. So if you could get the same level of gear without knowledge of the game you could beat anyone, or have an equal chance if you're both on the same footing except the other guy has years of experience?

FPS also take a lot of sitting at the computer and killing others to be competitive.

Your right, i need to pick the class that beats that guys class, face it MMOs are not competitive games

FPS games dont give you +1 armor or +1 attack every time you kill 10 people just saying unless its COD but most people just hack the levels anyway or at lest the people i know who play

..The competition in MMO's is to fight for those +1's so you'll be better than others.
It's really simple, really.
Yeah, really.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

SNIP

your argument is that gamers cant learn to click 5 moves in an order unless they played the game for 3 months right clicking boars, sure why not

I guess if you want to only look at my whole argument and take out what you want sure. Though it still stands that if you took two people one who has played the games for months or years will 100% of the time destroy the new guy who has played for a week even if they have the same gear. You seem to see it as duur press 5 buttons its easy, duur get head-shot its easy.

Also what is with you and only pointing to the killing of boars I mean it really erks me that you only seem to be talking about what was shown in that Make love not Warcraft episode of Southpark.

I actually believe hacking in an FPS is better than an MMO. Lets say I just got Black Ops, well I would be no good at it and I don't want to spend all my time dead because a bunch of people who have been playing for months keep killing me. So I decide to tip the scales in my favor just a bit by getting a wallhack or something of that nature.

Go ahead if the game has wall hackers then your not the only one using it so go for it have fun.

And also im not buying the whole its hard to master MMOs no matter what MMO i played they all have bad UIs with poor button placement (e.g keys 1-0 are skills) and overall have the same gameplay

MMOs tend to also annoy me by having

Rogue kills mage
mage kills warrior
Warrior kills rogue

system

If that is all that there is the MMO then you are playing some shit MMOs or just doing it wrong or playing at a very low level of play. High level competitve PvP or end game dungeons require a fair bit of skill to do effectively or at all.

 

[Idiotastic]

You sir,are the most successful troll I've seen in a while.

OT: Botting is cheating,cheating is bad.

 

[Anaklusmos]

SNIP

your argument is that gamers cant learn to click 5 moves in an order unless they played the game for 3 months right clicking boars, sure why not

I guess if you want to only look at my whole argument and take out what you want sure. Though it still stands that if you took two people one who has played the games for months or years will 100% of the time destroy the new guy who has played for a week even if they have the same gear. You seem to see it as duur press 5 buttons its easy, duur get head-shot its easy.

Also what is with you and only pointing to the killing of boars I mean it really erks me that you only seem to be talking about what was shown in that Make love not Warcraft episode of Southpark.

I actually believe hacking in an FPS is better than an MMO. Lets say I just got Black Ops, well I would be no good at it and I don't want to spend all my time dead because a bunch of people who have been playing for months keep killing me. So I decide to tip the scales in my favor just a bit by getting a wallhack or something of that nature.

Go ahead if the game has wall hackers then your not the only one using it so go for it have fun.

And also im not buying the whole its hard to master MMOs no matter what MMO i played they all have bad UIs with poor button placement (e.g keys 1-0 are skills) and overall have the same gameplay

MMOs tend to also annoy me by having

Rogue kills mage
mage kills warrior
Warrior kills rogue

system

The more I read, the more obvious it is you are a troll who has never played a decent MMO. This thread is obviously you just trying to annoy people who genuinely like MMO's. I don't understand why, but then again I don't understand a lot of people. Please grow up.

 

[Lawyer105]

I can aim and shoot you once. Why would I want to do it again? I'll just let the aimbot do it, right? Same argument as you.

And you're still totally ignoring the OTHER effects of botting in MMO's. Economy creep etc. Why should I have to pay hundreds of thousands of for an item because people have devalued the currency by letting bot programs grind stuff for them?

Sorry OP, but your argument is kinda broken. There's no excuse for hacking/botting in ANYTHING other than a single player game and even then... only if you're doing it for a specific reason - e.g. to test something or whatever. If you're just hacking to get through, why play? You're obviously not having fun (i.e. the point of the game!)

 

[Verkula]

Cheating is cheating. You can overanalize it as you want, but that fact wont change.

The question is, are you a cheater?

 

[Vigormortis]

gracious snip as reading that hurt my grammar organ

I'm sure quite a few people have already addressed the illogical nature of your post, but I'm going to chime in anyway.

Your assertions literally make no sense. Regardless of genre, method, or outcome, the fact remains you are cheating. There is no form of cheating that one could consider moral. You're still giving yourself an advantage over all the other players with something that is not a part of the game. (even then, using glitches or exploits within the game are still immoral and a form of cheating)

This just seems like you're trying to find an excuse to hack/bot/cheat at the MMO of your choice. If you do, it's no different then, to use one of your examples, using an aimbot in an FPS game. Saying that cheating at those is bad but doing so with an MMO is the very definition of a double standard. You're still cheating.

[/edit] On second thought, after seeing some of your other posts, I've come to realize you're just an ass. I will credit you with starting one of the more successful recent troll threads, however. So...there's that. Good job.

 

[ionveau]

Why is it that when people dont agree with me they call me a troll? its quite childish i must say

 

[Denariax]

Welcome to the internet sir.

Anyways. Personally I think anyone who would take a side on this are just halfway short of asswipe territory. Games are meant to be played, not so you can wave your internet willy around. Cheats make a game less fun. They do nothing but make you a pretender, whereas while some people actually go up the other road to be skilled at what they do.

That being said, skill isn't required in most FPS' anymore anyways, not since regeneration health.

 

[Neyon]

Cheating in either situation is unfair and wrong. However, it is true that cheating has a bigger effect in an fps where you are in direct competitor with other players than in a leveling / cash grinding situation in an MMO, where the cheater does not directly harm the legitimate players. In PVP however, this is obviously not the case though.

 

[Baneat]

Anyone want a sneak peek at the conclusion of the thread?

Deontologists and consequentialists arrive at an impasse.

Yawn.

 

[Denariax]

Jeez, man, don't spoil the ending.

Although I guess the plot isn't really that intuitive. It's been done way too much in the past!

 

[StBishop]

Why bother working? Someone else will do my job for me and I can just get money from the Government!


Same principle dude.

It's not that i disagree, however he is implying just that. It's "work", not "fun".

I'm personally torn on the subject. Botting in some MMO's wrecks entire economies, however botting in...say...Diablo 2, was completely acceptable and I would question the sanity of anyone who didn't bot, to be completely honest.

Hacking in a fps though is pointless. It's not even fun anymore because you're not even playing, you just watch as your aimbot kills everyone with pinpoint headshots while you spin impossibly fast.

This is like saying one turd smells better than another.

Would you rather clean up #2 or #6?

I never botted or hacked D2. I enjoyed slogging through all those Baal runs to get levels up and become better. But I also played through single player mode doing runs etc in that too so maybe I'm mental.

OT:

After playing a few MMOs and FPS RTS games etc it has come to my attention that Hacking Botting on an MMO is less evil over hacking on a FPS game etc, But where do i get this theory from you may ask, The simple answer to this is if The game play of an MMO is so simple that even a program can emulate the actions needed to progress then why do we bother grinding on MMOs when we could i dont know do anything els even play a better game, but you must understand where im coming from,

Firstly, I suppose you could argue that a bot for levelling only is not bad because it only affects you, but it's just as bad as an ebay'd character. It devalues the achievement of other players. Similarly to how the easy mode of getting a character to 80 in like 2 days has devalued the hard slog of original WoW to lvl 60.
People have stopped playing because of both.

If i asked you what is 998782346545645 + 346326345234234 sure you can do it in your head and its a simple question but wouldn't you rather use a calculator?

That's completely different. Now, using a calculator in a test where others are not allowed to, that's a fair comparison. In the example I gave, no, I wouldn't cheat.

thats the same with MMOs after you do everything once whats the point of doing it again? especially if this task in question is right click a Ore to mine it.

The point is, that's the game. if you don't like it, don't play.

On the Flip side hacking FPS game or any competitive game in general is not very moral at all,

MMO's are competetive.

You see if your facing off against a player in a game where number dont determine the out come using hacks like wall hack or aim bots if very cheap and overall ruins the game for others.

Numbers aren't the only determanent in MMO's, there's the whole act of working to get the levels/gear etc.

But you may ask but BOTTING on MMOs ruins the game for others also, Well lets think about this one, the effect of "ruined game" is not a direct blow to the person, sure maybe if he sees you botting he will say oh my look at me wasting my time while this guy gets everything faster without putting any work into it.

As others have said, the added products like ore from mining bots drops the prices dramatically of the hard won, non-bot, ore.
Also, it shits me (and others) when they see people getting a free ride. Especially when they're working hard to achieve something but others are getting the same for free.

For this i have a simple answer Yes your right they are cheating and getting everything faster they are bypassing all the junk while you heroically kill that 9000th boar to gain that 80th level

Exactly. That's a problem. It's bullshit like this that leads people to think it's ok to pirate games that they were never going to buy. "I don't really like this game, it's not a lost sale because I'd never have bought it."

but think about it are you having fun? if the action of playing an MMO is not fun then why are you playing it?

Exactly. If you don't like the game, don't play it and especially don't ruin it for others.

or is it a greed factor found only in MMO players, You see if i cheated on COD and got all unlock from the start and own you in a match, tell me is it that i beat you because i cheated the game or rather did i beat you because the game is unbalanced and depends on numbers over effort of the player?

I'll tell you; it's because you cheated. If you'd not botted and then gotten into the exact same fight, it may have been a different story. It's not because the game is unbalanced. It's because the game rewards effort and you cheated.

 

[scw55]

It just sounds the same as Downloading a game illegally is morally supirior than stealing it from a shop. NOT IT'S NOT. IT'S STILL STEALING. STOP LYING TO YOURSELF AND MAKING EXCUSES SO YOU DON'T FEEL SO GUILTY.