Halo 4 Ending + Saga Discussion [Spoilers]

[Sonic Doctor]

THE GAME WAS TOO DAMN SHORT!!! A game that can be run through on Heroic in four-five hours is almost pathetic, especially for a universe as rich and compelling as Halo.

I'm now guessing that the game is too short if you are some kind of FPS savant.

My first play through of Halo games is always done on normal. Because that is ground level, and is the base for truly how long the game is on the main difficulty. It took me 10 to 11 hours at least to beat Halo 4 on normal. Granted I hadn't picked up a Halo game for two months before I played Halo 4. But I got back into the swing of things pretty quickly.

The final measure of the game will come when I compare it's legendary to Reach's. It took me 18 hours to beat Reach on legendary. Considering that my play time doubles when I go from normal to legendary, it is quite possible that Halo 4 will take me around 20 to 22 hours on legendary.

What I would ask you is, did you play it solo or co-op with friends? The reason I ask is because of the time you say you beat it on Heroic, which with a group of friends, I can see that as a possibility. The problem is, if that is the case, then your complaint about length is invalid, because the true length of a game can only be based off of a solo run.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

-snip-

Interesting, I haven't read the book yet, so I'm going by a summary here + my knowlege of other halo lore. Anyway, the impression I got was that the flood were the precursors, whether they were always like that idk, probably not. I also got the impression that the floods purpose, whatever they were before, was to test races to see if they were worthy of bearing the mantle, and then to make sure that that race bore the mantle. They're reasoning for wanting to wipe out the forerunners isn't then revenge but simply that the forerunners weren't worthy of bearing the mantle (and honestly, they were only bearing the mantle in name, not in their actions) but more importantly that they were stifling the development of any other races that might be worthy of bearing it.

From what I gathered the timeless one indicated that there was no cure to the flood. (Though like I said I haven't read the book so I could be wrong). But if this is the case then the flood deliberately stopped attempting to destroy humanity, whether this was because they had decided that humanity was worthy or if they were unsure but the forerunners war with the humans messed with the results too much to get a proper result (more likely).

I do like the thought of the timeless one being a different sort of gravemind, that makes quite a bit of sense.

 

[Otterz]

Now i am exited to see how Cortana will be braught back in Halo 5 (it cannot be a new Cortana model AI, as she states to John, in wont be her and if she is not braught back i will be questioning 343's ability to take the halo universe forwards). Wolud not want it to turn too obvious though and have it like a Mass Effect LI romance, that is not Halo or John/Cortana style.

Oh man, I don't agree. I thought about this and it blew my mind. Based on this outing, I doubt 343 wants to touch anything as dark and thought provoking as this with a 20 foot pole. No, no, a 25 foot pole. But just imagine the tension between the Chief and the new "Cortana". What would he say to her? And she to him? How does Chief cope with this jarring course of events, and what is his relationship with the new "Cortana" like? How is the relationship complicated by the memories he has and sense of loyalty he feels for his dead friend? Does he feel that he has betrayed his friend? Does he view the new "Cortana" as an usurper? What does this practice of replacing A.I.s imply about their role in society? How do they feel about it? How should they feel? How should we?

And what does any of this even mean to a human who is somehow... less than that?

Halo was pretty dark right from the start. This isn't a love story, although it may contain romance. It is science fiction. I don't know if it should be quite that dark, because this ain't exactly Dune. But I for one would probably go bonkers for it if they did that idea well. As I said earlier in this thread, Cortana's plea of "It won't be me!" was my favorite moment of the whole game. But the reason it was so poignant is exactly why they should do it. The implications are so thought-provoking, and it's bursting with drama and heartache. If they actually did replace Cortana, the sadness and significance of her pathetic plea would explode off the chart. I miss her already.

If I was writing Halo 5, I'm pretty sure that's what I would do. Fortunately for you if you don't like my version, I'm not lol. The current writers seem to just want bizarre backstory that's somehow convoluted and abbreviated at the same time and melodrama. *sigh*

We're veering dangerously close to Duncan Idaho territory.

I guess this all depends where you wan't the story to go, if Cortana doesn't come back then Halo 5 and 6 will just be about how terribly depressed the chief is. The best possible ending I can see from such a plot line is that he learns to live with the fact that everyone he ever cared fore (Jacob, Miranda, Johnson, Most of the SPARTANS) and the one person he may have actually loved (Cortana) are all dead.

This is certainly dark but I disagree with you about the inherent darkness of Halo. It isn't about how all of humanity is doomed, it is about how, despite all odds they still have hope. Despite the fact that they are near certain death they still find the time to joke, make friends, and maybe more? The Halo series has always been about hope, hope that we can survive as a species, hope that the flood can be defeated, hope that despite Cortana's rampancy she can be saved. I will admit that I like the ending in Halo 4 because they didn't deliver on your hopes, it was unexpected. There has always been a light at the end of the tunnel but now there is none, and for the moment that works.

However, you can't take all of the hope away, Halo 5 is supposed to be dark but if there is no sense of hope that Cortana will be back then I won't wan't to play it. Frankly it will just be one big depressing mess, I don't immerse myself in fiction only to have it end in heart break and sorrow. There is enough sad shit in real life, I wan't my fiction to have a happily ever after, and I don't care if it is a cleshay.

 

[Smagmuck_]

Spoiler

1. What exactly happened to make the Covenant and Humans at war again? 4 years isn't that long, I doubt that the entire prophet and brute races were wiped out that fast. Especially considering the fact that the Arbiter would still be alive at that point and would obviously be against war with the Humans.

Spoiler: Spoilered Response

Although it isn't outright stated, the Milky Way is a large galaxy, it is possible this fleet of Covenant have yet to receive the "Cease Fire" from their Command, or they're rogue and adhering to the old ways.

Like Cortana said "A lot has happened in four years."

Spoiler

2. The nuke thing, was Chief teleported away at the last second? surrounded by some lightbridge shield? digitized and then purged? How exactly did Cortana physically touch him otherwise?

Spoiler: Spoilered Response

Cortana generated a hard light shield around the Master Chief at the last second the spare him nuclear annihilation. This used up the last of her processing power and pushed her over the proverbial cliff. Through the EU it is implied both John and Cortana have grown attached, not romantically, but to the point one might be hindered in some way. During that cut scene, John is looking away as she explains what just happened. He knows he will not be seeing her again, and it hurts. (It's also implied there may have been a tear or two behind his visor.).

She's an advanced AI, before she slips away she wanted to feel something human, and projected herself as hard light to give the sensation of touch.

Spoiler

3. Since the composer can switch data between digital and biological, and Cortana dropped the rather obvious hint that her mind was a copy of Dr. Halsey's neural tissues, We can predict that over the course of this new halo saga, cortana will go thorugh rampancy into metastability and then probably be converted into a human. With that said, I really hope they don't turn her relationship with Chief into a love interest. One of the biggest reasons for why the Cortana-Master Chief duo was so succesful in my opinion was because Bungie took great care in avoiding the classic love arc tropes that would have ruined the maturity of the series; so it worries me to see 343 go switch into such a different direction right off the bat.

Probably won't happen given the ending. But, they might bring her back in someway. But not in the way you described.

Spoiler

4. For those of you who didn't finish it on Legendary, you actually see the upper half of Cheif's face in the end of the epilogue cutscene. I think that was a mistake. I realize they're trying to play this new 'Man or Machine' theme for the new saga, but it's still too early into the story for John's face to get kind of effect they're looking for. Unlike samus aran, there really isn't a shock value to seeing John's face: We already know his age, gender, race etc. Sure, you make him seem more human, but you also take away a huge mystery factor from his persona, so I think that move was net negative.

I thought it was nice, it was a nice tease. Not too much to spoil everything. But enough to give us a good hint. Besides, the EU has already explicitly stated what he looks like. A render would only be a visual form of that. It wouldn't be much of a difference to a fan who is deep in the EU.

 

[II Scarecrow II]

THE GAME WAS TOO DAMN SHORT!!! A game that can be run through on Heroic in four-five hours is almost pathetic, especially for a universe as rich and compelling as Halo.

I'm now guessing that the game is too short if you are some kind of FPS savant.

My first play through of Halo games is always done on normal. Because that is ground level, and is the base for truly how long the game is on the main difficulty. It took me 10 to 11 hours at least to beat Halo 4 on normal. Granted I hadn't picked up a Halo game for two months before I played Halo 4. But I got back into the swing of things pretty quickly.

The final measure of the game will come when I compare it's legendary to Reach's. It took me 18 hours to beat Reach on legendary. Considering that my play time doubles when I go from normal to legendary, it is quite possible that Halo 4 will take me around 20 to 22 hours on legendary.

What I would ask you is, did you play it solo or co-op with friends? The reason I ask is because of the time you say you beat it on Heroic, which with a group of friends, I can see that as a possibility. The problem is, if that is the case, then your complaint about length is invalid, because the true length of a game can only be based off of a solo run.

I am reasonably good at FPS's, particularly Halo, but I haven't touched a Halo game in over a year. Yes, my very first playthrough was on Heroic 4 player co-op and that took me approximately 4.5 hours. Yearning for a challenge(and achievements), I proceeded to do the campaign solo on legendary and clocked in 7-8 hours. So yes, Legendary did almost double my play time, but that is still tragically short. Reach and ODST were even longer and Halo 2 was 2001: A Space Odyssey in comparison.

My current campaign playtime, as of two campaign runs, plus various achievements and terminals sits at 13.5 hours, which is too short regardless of your skill level.

 

[Trivun]

Alright so my friends and I finished the campaign yesterday and were left a bit confused on a few points:

Spoiler: obvious spoilers

1. What exactly happened to make the Covenant and Humans at war again? 4 years isn't that long, I doubt that the entire prophet and brute races were wiped out that fast. Especially considering the fact that the Arbiter would still be alive at that point and would obviously be against war with the Humans.

2. The nuke thing, was Chief teleported away at the last second? surrounded by some lightbridge shield? digitized and then purged? How exactly did Cortana physically touch him otherwise?

Spoiler: Question answers

1. The books explain it, but it's unknown to the Chief because he's been away for the past four years. According to the novels Glasslands and The Thursday War, the head of ONI (Admiral Margaret Parangosky) felt that with the fracturing of the Covenant the best way to give humanity time to recover and regroup was to ferment civil war between the rival Sangheili (Elite) factions, whereas Navy chief Admiral Hood (the guy from Halo 2/3) wanted to pursue diplomatic relations with the Arbiter, Thel 'Vadam. Hood and the Arbiter set up a ceasefire and began negotiations to form a permanent peace treaty, the Prophets were pretty much wiped out save a few thousand on their home planet, the other races buggered off to their own home worlds or maintained shaky relations with humans (usually along the lines of not bothering with them, or pirates trading ships and weapons), and everything looked okay for the future.

Parangosky, however, set up a black-ops team in ONI consisting of one survivng Spartan-II, three ODSTs, a civillian professor fluent in the Elite's language, and an AI, led by a former Spartan-II who never made it past the augmentation stages when she was younger. This team, known as Kilo-5, promoted behind the scenes a rebel group of Elites who didn't like the idea of peace with the humans, and although this civil war was started by ONI it seems to have failed by the time of Halo 4. However, one of the Elites who was part of the rebellion was captured by ONI when he found out their involvement in the civil war, escaped, and found out about the Didact and Requiem. This Elite managed to locate an Elite colony world who had no idea that the war was over, and convinced them to side with him against the humans and to find Requiem. This splinter group is the last known remnant now of the Covenant, and are known as 'Storm', but by the events of Halo 4 are proving to be more of a thorn in the humans' side even with the relative peace between humans and the other Covenant races.

Hopefully that all made sense, but if not then no worries. Suffice to say it's not the Covenant 'proper' in Halo 4, they're just a splinter faction. The peace still stands from the end of Halo 3.

2. I have no real idea on this point, but I would assume that Cortana was able to set up some sort of hardlight shield (as used throughout the game) and used it to move and protect John. Although I'm uncertain of what use a hardlight shield would be against a Havok nuke, but perhaps she moved him with the shield to an escape craft before the bomb went off, and his hitting it simply triggered the timer that they were using in the first place?

I also wanted to hear what other Halo fans thought about some of the major changes 343 has done with the series

Spoiler: more spoilers

3. Since the composer can switch data between digital and biological, and Cortana dropped the rather obvious hint that her mind was a copy of Dr. Halsey's neural tissues, We can predict that over the course of this new halo saga, cortana will go thorugh rampancy into metastability and then probably be converted into a human. With that said, I really hope they don't turn her relationship with Chief into a love interest. One of the biggest reasons for why the Cortana-Master Chief duo was so succesful in my opinion was because Bungie took great care in avoiding the classic love arc tropes that would have ruined the maturity of the series; so it worries me to see 343 go switch into such a different direction right off the bat.

4. For those of you who didn't finish it on Legendary, you actually see the upper half of Cheif's face in the end of the epilogue cutscene. I think that was a mistake. I realize they're trying to play this new 'Man or Machine' theme for the new saga, but it's still too early into the story for John's face to get kind of effect they're looking for. Unlike samus aran, there really isn't a shock value to seeing John's face: We already know his age, gender, race etc. Sure, you make him seem more human, but you also take away a huge mystery factor from his persona, so I think that move was net negative.

So what do you guys think?

Spoiler: More Answers

3. Cortana is dead at the end of the game. Personally, I do hope they'll bring her back somehow, but I don't want it to just be an ass-pull, in which case the Composer and Halsey's cloned brain would be a great way of doing so. However, new Cortana wouldn't have any of the old Cortana's memories or knowledge, which would be a concern. She says it herself in the game. "It wouldn't be me..."

4.We already know what he looks like from the books and the graphic novel adaptations, even if we haven't seen his (in-game) present day face yet. As a child and young man we know him, we just haven't seen his face as a 40-odd year old yet, which is what he is now (being born in the 2510's decade...). I don't mind seeing his eyes here, unlike most other gamers I don't see a need to keep it hidden for the sake of making us feel like we're the Master Chief while playing. Enough of his personality and mindset is given in the books, and this latest game, for us to not feel that way anyway. For me, the only problem with the Legendary ending is that it's the same as the regular post-credits scene, except with John's eyes shown as well. It just seems like such a tiny reward for beating the game on the hardest setting when you otherwise get exactly the same result from beating it on Normal...

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I have thought about it too. As you said it would be very dark and thought provoking, the implications for A.I.s role in society. All very, very interesting stuff. Just not for these character. To implement something like this with Master Chief would demand a major change in his personality. He is a Spartan-II, he would use the tools at hand and begin his next crusade for defending humanity at all costs. There is no question he would resent the ?new Cortana? in so many ways, but he is the ?strong, silent? type to actually make this work in an engaging way. John already has his own personality, he does not need a reboot to have character development, he needs Cortana back to continue fleshing his personality. Halo is an action game/franchise and a FPS, but with a romance at its core with the 2 core characters if you ask me.

I definitely disagree that a romance is the core of the series. But that's OK, we can disagree on that.

They already changed Chief's personality dramatically for Halo 4, so I'm not totally sure which personality we're talking about now. Personally I would ditch the Saving Private Ryan war-is-hell melodrama before it derails the character. But they seem to have made a firm decision to go that route.

I don't agree that introducing a new character necessitates a change in Chief's character. I'm not following you there. As I see it, the whole point is to see how his existing character would respond. And I don't see why reintroducing an old character is likely to flesh out Chief's character (whatever that is anymore) more than a new one.

But you know; opinions. Everyone has their own way they want to see it done. It's just fun to talk about.

This is certainly dark but I disagree with you about the inherent darkness of Halo. It isn't about how all of humanity is doomed, it is about how, despite all odds they still have hope. Despite the fact that they are near certain death they still find the time to joke, make friends, and maybe more? The Halo series has always been about hope, hope that we can survive as a species, hope that the flood can be defeated, hope that despite Cortana's rampancy she can be saved. I will admit that I like the ending in Halo 4 because they didn't deliver on your hopes, it was unexpected. There has always been a light at the end of the tunnel but now there is none, and for the moment that works.

However, you can't take all of the hope away, Halo 5 is supposed to be dark but if there is no sense of hope that Cortana will be back then I won't wan't to play it. Frankly it will just be one big depressing mess, I don't immerse myself in fiction only to have it end in heart break and sorrow. There is enough sad shit in real life, I wan't my fiction to have a happily ever after, and I don't care if it is a cleshay.

There are more ways to deal with grief then wallowing in depression, and I think that goes double for Master Chief. I'm not saying everything should be all doom and gloom, but I am saying there is room in the Halo universe for dark tone and subject matter. Halo: CE and Halo 2 had it. Killing one character doesn't "take all hope away", except maybe your hope for that character to be alive lol.

If you want a happily-ever-after with Cortana, I can respect that. Some people may belittle it but I think it's perfectly valid. It's not what I would have written, however. Not with the end of Halo 4 as my jumping off point.

The word isn't spelled like it sounds: "cliche". Sorry, I'm not really trying to be a spelling Nazi. I'm trying to save you from them lol.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I am reasonably good at FPS's, particularly Halo, but I haven't touched a Halo game in over a year. Yes, my very first playthrough was on Heroic 4 player co-op and that took me approximately 4.5 hours. Yearning for a challenge(and achievements), I proceeded to do the campaign solo on legendary and clocked in 7-8 hours. So yes, Legendary did almost double my play time, but that is still tragically short. Reach and ODST were even longer and Halo 2 was 2001: A Space Odyssey in comparison.

My current campaign playtime, as of two campaign runs, plus various achievements and terminals sits at 13.5 hours, which is too short regardless of your skill level.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some may infer from this that you have not played the original Halo campaign, just because you didn't mention it. I'm sure that's not true- but, hypothetically, if someone hadn't played it, they would be missing out on a rare classic that still holds up today. It's arguably still the best in the series. It definitely has the best atmosphere and presentation.

 

[fix-the-spade]

So anyone thinks Cortana will stay dead?

I like that they are trying to explore MC's character finally and give it some development.

Hmmm... yeah... I think we know the plot of Halo 5.

I would quite like to see the Chief beginning to unravel in part 5.
From the start of Halo to now they've killed off literally every character he ever got close to (in order, the other S2s, Keyes, Johnson and now Cortana), at the same time he's gone to war against every species shown so far, including his own.

Yet despite the various horrors he's endured (and committed) most of the characters in the universe treat him as a piece of equipment.

Without Cortana present as company it would be awesome to see Chief becoming irritable, unpredictable and even more withdrawn, possibly sociopathic. When Cpt Del Rio was screaming at him to hand over Cortana, I was just waiting for the response 'or what?' to come from Chief. The man is a one man extinction event, he has to be aware of said fact and that for him consequences more or less do not exist.
I would quite like to see him simply abandon a large group of humans to their fate (or better yet, rampage straight through them) to reach his overall objective, because after so much killing he no longer cares particularly about anything, it's all just stuff between him and the next guy.

Of course no one at 343 would be that brave.

 

[II Scarecrow II]

I am reasonably good at FPS's, particularly Halo, but I haven't touched a Halo game in over a year. Yes, my very first playthrough was on Heroic 4 player co-op and that took me approximately 4.5 hours. Yearning for a challenge(and achievements), I proceeded to do the campaign solo on legendary and clocked in 7-8 hours. So yes, Legendary did almost double my play time, but that is still tragically short. Reach and ODST were even longer and Halo 2 was 2001: A Space Odyssey in comparison.

My current campaign playtime, as of two campaign runs, plus various achievements and terminals sits at 13.5 hours, which is too short regardless of your skill level.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some may infer from this that you have not played the original Halo campaign, just because you didn't mention it. I'm sure that's not true- but, hypothetically, if someone hadn't played it, they would be missing out on a rare classic that still holds up today. It's arguably still the best in the series. It definitely has the best atmosphere and presentation.

I have most definitely played Combat Evolved, and it still holds up as the BEST story game of all time in my own experience, but I was referring to the length of the games to make my comparison as opposed to the quality of its story. Halo 4 has a great story, with a lot of elements drawn from over a decade of Halo experience, but of course it doesn't hold a flame to the original. Halo 1 was easily two or three times the length of Halo 4, but Halo 2 was considerably longer, especially on Legendary difficulty hence why I used it as a comparison in my post.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

I'm amazed that I haven't seen anyone else complain about the REALLY antinclimactic "Final Boss Battle", which consists of defeating an IMMENSELY POWERFUL, TELEKINETIC ENEMY! ...With a few QTE's. Yikes.

Eh . . . what would you prefer, standard run and gun? Then people would complain "oh it only took 4 missiles, or conversely why did the guy take so much damage?"

Does Halo really even have boss battles?

Well, yeah! Remember Guilty Spark? I mean, sure, it wouldn't have been prolonged or super-epic, but it would have been a lot better than "PULL LEFT TRIGGER TO WIN GAME!"

 

[C F]

Does Halo really even have boss battles?

Well, yeah! Remember Guilty Spark? I mean, sure, it wouldn't have been prolonged or super-epic, but it would have been a lot better than "PULL LEFT TRIGGER TO WIN GAME!"

Better yet: Tartarus from Halo 2. Remember him?

Compared to him, Spark was an interactive cutscene too. Tatarus had the first (and best) Gravity Hammer in the series, he was large, jumped around, had shields, and was more of a threat than Spark even with a beam-rifle toting Johnson and a bunch of sword elites constantly pounding away at him. He was a freaking Alpha Brute, and his epic beard wasn't going to cede to the Arbiter without a fight.

How hard would it be to have Cortana's split personalities merely nerf the Didact instead of restrain him completely? All you have to do is take out his constraint field generator (AKA space telekinesis), and suddenly it would be a lot fairer fight.
Heck, have Palmer and her IVs show up in a pair of Pelicans for the final charge, and NOW we've got a real battle cooking.

But no. We've got to take a page out of CoD's book and give the guy the Makarov treatment.
I miss bosses who were actual bosses.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I'm amazed that I haven't seen anyone else complain about the REALLY antinclimactic "Final Boss Battle", which consists of defeating an IMMENSELY POWERFUL, TELEKINETIC ENEMY! ...With a few QTE's. Yikes.

You've played a Halo game before, right? I mean there are about seven of them and only one of them has a last boss, old albino bruteface in Halo 2, and everyone fucking hated that fight. (No, Guilty Spark doesn't count, splasering him was fanservice not a boss fight)

Halo games don't have Final Boss Battles, it's not what the series does.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Does Halo really even have boss battles?

Well, yeah! Remember Guilty Spark? I mean, sure, it wouldn't have been prolonged or super-epic, but it would have been a lot better than "PULL LEFT TRIGGER TO WIN GAME!"

Better yet: Tartarus from Halo 2. Remember him?

Compared to him, Spark was an interactive cutscene too. Tatarus had the first (and best) Gravity Hammer in the series, he was large, jumped around, had shields, and was more of a threat than Spark even with a beam-rifle toting Johnson and a bunch of sword elites constantly pounding away at him. He was a freaking Alpha Brute, and his epic beard wasn't going to cede to the Arbiter without a fight.

How hard would it be to have Cortana's split personalities merely nerf the Didact instead of restrain him completely? All you have to do is take out his constraint field generator (AKA space telekinesis), and suddenly it would be a lot fairer fight.
Heck, have Palmer and her IVs show up in a pair of Pelicans for the final charge, and NOW we've got a real battle cooking.

But no. We've got to take a page out of CoD's book and give the guy the Makarov treatment.
I miss bosses who were actual bosses.

Finally, someone who speaks English. I mean, I guess QTE battles are fine in COD or Battlefield or whatever where you're a normal human fighting a normal human. BUT NOT WHEN YOU'RE A CYBERNETIC SPACE MARINE FIGHTING A TELEKINETIC SUPERVILLAIN. Damn it all.

 

[Spartan16]

I have thought about it too. As you said it would be very dark and thought provoking, the implications for A.I.s role in society. All very, very interesting stuff. Just not for these character. To implement something like this with Master Chief would demand a major change in his personality. He is a Spartan-II, he would use the tools at hand and begin his next crusade for defending humanity at all costs. There is no question he would resent the ?new Cortana? in so many ways, but he is the ?strong, silent? type to actually make this work in an engaging way. John already has his own personality, he does not need a reboot to have character development, he needs Cortana back to continue fleshing his personality. Halo is an action game/franchise and a FPS, but with a romance at its core with the 2 core characters if you ask me.

I definitely disagree that a romance is the core of the series. But that's OK, we can disagree on that.

They already changed Chief's personality dramatically for Halo 4, so I'm not totally sure which personality we're talking about now. Personally I would ditch the Saving Private Ryan war-is-hell melodrama before it derails the character. But they seem to have made a firm decision to go that route.

I don't agree that introducing a new character necessitates a change in Chief's character. I'm not following you there. As I see it, the whole point is to see how his existing character would respond. And I don't see why reintroducing an old character is likely to flesh out Chief's character (whatever that is anymore) more than a new one.

But you know; opinions. Everyone has their own way they want to see it done. It's just fun to talk about.

His personality did not change in Halo 4, he just showed emotion in certain parts of the game that he did not before. It is no coincidence that all of the parts that he did show emotion, it was for/directed to Cortana.

On Ivanoff Research Station during 'Composer', the whole facility was ?Composed? aside form himself and Cortana and we got the usual Master Chief response?.. Move on, more lives are at stake that the ones lost here. I saw no change in Johns personality at all in Halo 4, it was the same Master Chief that we know and love, only difference was he spoke slightly more. Which makes sense as it was just him and Cortana for the bulk of the game, there was a less prominent supporting cast unlike in previous halo games to do the talking.
Plus his emotion toward Cortana. Which is understandable and perfectly done/executed by 343i from all aspects from story to character. It does not matter which side of the line you stand on with the John and Cortana relationship, Love vs. Best friend/Family (to make it clear I am firmly on the ?Love? side of the argument, which thankfully seems to be the same side as 343) you would get an emotional response to both Cortana facing her mortality and her supposed ?death?. The level of emotion and interactions form Halo 4 and their evolving relationship in the original trilogy and in the extended universe (books, films etc.) proves that it is a Love arc relationship, he disobeyed I direct order form a superior for the first time ever for her on the Infinity Bridge (still don?t get why Del Rio hols him with such contempt, he is a living legend among humanity. The single greatest military figure in human history, has to be more than him feeling threatened by John).
But that is my opinion, but if you disagree that?s ok, that?s why we have these forums. So I see no ?Change? to Chiefs personality up to this point, just character development which 343 has done exceptionally well I think. The end f Halo 4 could have been an end of a trilogy not the start, almost everything was finished and wrapped up nicely. Of course if Cortana?s ?death? proves to be final, to say I would be questioning 343?s ability to steward the Halo franchise would be an understatement, I believe that she is crucial to the story, franchise and John himself?.. but that is in an earlier post. I am interested to know what you think changed so dramatically in Chief to warrant you saying he already has a new personality

As far as the new personality for Chief, in order for him to despise a new Cortana model given to him it is fairly simple. John is a SPARTAN-II. In his own words Soldiers fight to protect humanity, no matter the cost. Master Chief, based on his personality due to his training to be a SPARTAN-II in his youth would get on with the job silently. He might despise the fact that he has a ?new Cortana model? but he would not voice it. He loves Cortana and he has been given an identical copy, one that is not the woman/entity that he loves, but again he is SPARTAN-II. It would be business as usual even if he felt otherwise himself. To have a Master Chief that ?rages? against a new Cortana model would go against his personality, Spartan training and his objectives on the battle field which have never been compromised due to his incredible leadership of both the Spartans and marines. So in my opinion it would need a new character personality for Master Chief for that to work.

But you are right, opinions; Everyone has their own way they want to see it done. It's fun to talk about. I am excited to see where 343 will take the story next though?..

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

His personality did not change in Halo 4, he just showed emotion in certain parts of the game that he did not before. It is no coincidence that all of the parts that he did show emotion, it was for/directed to Cortana.

snip

Halo 4's Master Chief has a mostly new personality we have never seen before. This is not the first time Chief has faced death and hardship, not even to Cortana. In the past, he has reacted to it like a man conditioned not to. In Halo 4, he has over dramatized emotional responses, sharp outbursts, and exaggerated body language. It's a completely new character with completely new subject matter. Before he was a man-turned-machine whose conditioning made him somewhat impenetrable. Now he is a soldier tortured by the horrors of war. It's a totally new direction for the character. It's not a character arc because nothing happens in the intervening time. He just suddenly is different. It's very obvious to me 343 made a conscious choice to change Master Chief's character so they could pursue war-is-hell melodrama. Some people will like that, some won't.

We even see his face (assuming the child on the beach was John-117 as a child). They go to great lengths to make Master Chief more human. Up until now, his inhumanity has been one of his defining characteristics. EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not so much complaining that he is now different as just acknowledging it. But I admit, I liked the old character and subject matter better. Also, while good characters typically do change over time, the fun is in observing the change. Going from one way of being to another between games isn't really a character arc. That's more like waking up with a new personality.

I think how Chief would or wouldn't respond to things emotionally is up in the air right now. They've more-or-less rebooted his character, so we just have to wait and see where they take it next. And even if Chief accepts the new "Cortana" and carries on with his work, he would still have a different relationship with the new A.I. and the potential for tension between the characters is still there. I'm not saying he should "rage". Not all emotional reactions take their most exaggerated form. Just some tension is enough.

You also brought up how Master Chief has somehow become space-Jesus over the years, which is another thing I don't like. Someone said it before, but all these changes just reek of fan-fiction. We love the Chief, and we love Cortana, but a careful writer knows to not let things get out of hand.

For the record, I very much doubt Cortana's death will prove to be final, whether or not I think it should. Halo 4 jerked off the fans like the world's most ambitious whore, so I don't expect a favorite character to stay dead. I'm not saying it was terrible, but that's what it was.

 

[Spartan16]

His personality did not change in Halo 4, he just showed emotion in certain parts of the game that he did not before. It is no coincidence that all of the parts that he did show emotion, it was for/directed to Cortana.

snip

Halo 4's Master Chief has a mostly new personality we have never seen before. This is not the first time Chief has faced death and hardship, not even to Cortana. In the past, he has reacted to it like a man conditioned not to. In Halo 4, he has over dramatized emotional responses, sharp outbursts, and exaggerated body language. It's a completely new character with completely new subject matter. Before he was a man-turned-machine whose conditioning made him somewhat impenetrable. Now he is a soldier tortured by the horrors of war. It's a totally new direction for the character. It's not a character arc because nothing happens in the intervening time. He just suddenly is different. It's very obvious to me 343 made a conscious choice to change Master Chief's character so they could pursue war-is-hell melodrama. Some people will like that, some won't.

snip

You are right, this is not the first time Chief has faces hardships, but it is the first time that is has been something that he could not control. This time he can?t ?shoot my way out. Mix things up a little." It is something he can?t affect himself. This time it is not a faceless entity either, not a race of people he has been conditioned to defend at all costs. It is an entity that he loves, something that he feels for more than anything else in the galaxy. Something that matters to him on a personal level.

In the extended Halo universe It is much more present, his reaction to loosing fellow Spartans during the novels, films and comics etc. (including those done by Bungie) is similar to his emotional responses to Cortana in Halo 4, just less ?exaggerated? as you put it which is understandable when you look at what he will now loose in Halo 4, the stakes have risen.

Even in the original trilogy, look at his reaction to Johnsons death, if that was something prolonged and affected him in the same way as Cortana?s rampancy does would you not expect the same level of emotion????

Personally I think that his emotional responses were fitting to the situation and subtly done to be believable, not dramatized and thought that his body language was again subtle ad fitting and I saw no outbursts besides the confrontation with Del Rio on Infinity?s bridge, which I loved. But everyone sees things in their own way I guess?.


Again the showing John?s eyes did not bother me, it fitted the story themes and was done very well, I was hoping for more of a reward for finishing the game on Legendary though, something hinting at the plot for the next game, like In previous games. As far as it making him human when being inhuman has been one of his defining characteristics I kind of agree. I think that inhumanity has been one of the defining characteristics of a Spartan not namely John. Overall though his inhumanity was still largely present thought, Cortana related situations being the exception. I will again refer you to the ?Composer ? level and Ivanoff Research Station and his response to all aboard the station being ?composed?.
My problem is though, with Master Chief we have constantly had the vessel for the player vs. a character of his own argument. Personally I am more of a ?character of his own? supporter and you can?t have It both ways, beg for character development then complain when it is done?.. Conversely the Chief that you desire/describe is the one that I described as to why the resentment to a new Cortana model would not work?..

I really liked what they did with the characters in Halo 4, I was disappointed by the lack of involvement of the supporting cast but I expect to continue seeing them in Spatran Ops.

I do agree though that writers know to not let things get out of hand, or at least they should after the whole Mass Effect Ending fiasco, so If Cortana is not brought back 343 had better expect a massive s**t storm.

I think that it is the same Master Chief that we know and love, just with a few added layers, which again I love.