Have you ever supported/sympathised with a games villain/enemy?

[Gralian]

Deus Ex did a good job of this. I know you were supposed to sympathise with the NSF terrorists, but at the start of the game they're just that - terrorists. It's only when you actually look at what they do and talk to them that you realise you're fighting for the wrong team. The NSF use tranquilisers, UNATCO uses rifles. The NSF doesn't go out of their way to clear out UNATCO forces, whereas they are the opposite. You chat with the terrorist leaders, you talk to the troopers in the interrogation rooms and you realise what they're actually fighting for is a fairer world for everybody, not just the fatcats.

Again, we all know by now that you're meant to view them under a better light than everyone else has you believe, but it was still executed rather well and the whole twist regarding your brother didn't feel heavy-handed at all because of it, and as a result, it did not feel forced when i'm suddenly fighting for the NSF.

 

[Twad]

I usually root for the bad guys on principle.. beng some of the few character with color.. but even them are very often psychopathic, cliche morons with no common sense who are doomed to fail dramatically to the boring, cliche heroes with no common sense.

I do sympathise with the guys from Dungeon Keepers, at least they are good at being evil.

 

[Traxx]

Certainly; Alma from (the first) FEAR is case in point.
-Angsty, egocentric, annoying, pointlessly destructive Alma from FEAR 2

Spoiler

can go fuck herself

, though. Literally.

But wait, I'm not as such supposed to hate her. Hm. Hm.

Sarevok, Baldur's Gate, then.
Thoroughly and shamelessly Chaotic Evil and not the slightest bit interested in your judgment of his moral character. Be the stronger, or fall to his blade.
Sympathy? No. But I respect Sarevok for being no-nonsense, and a MASSIVE badass to boot; they just don't make end-bosses like that any more.

 

[Floppertje]

I liked dane vogel. mostly because he's just funny
"I think the waiting part is very important"

"MY problem is that a sideshow freak is messing up my paperwork.
YOUR problem is that there's a team of security guards with assault rifles pointed at your back."

 

[Zorg Machine]

All villains that aren't chaotic evil (can't believe I just said that)
also, all of the factions in Fallout New Vegas

Spoiler

name a single faction that doesn't end up destroying someones life

 

[tj236]

GlaDOS from Portal. She's still alive by the end of the game, but I am really hoping she kicks ass in Portal 2.

I don't care if your character dies, just so long as GlaDOS wins in the end.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Are there any factions in a game that the character (and the player) are supposed to dislike/hate, but you support them instead?

As in, characters that you HAVE to fight, or are the story's antagonists?

Personally, I kinda support Abstergo Industries and the Templars in the Assassin's Creed universe. Yes, they may secretly control the world, and are generally portrayed as the 'bad guys' that do 'bad guy' stuff. But Ezio isn't much better, really. The game tries to dress it up, but you are effectively a serial killer. Random guards, who have no idea of the larger conflict, who have joined the guard so that their families can eat, who are effectively innocents, are slaughtered by Ezio.

You bribe the heralds, rip off wanted poster and kill witnesses (they're apparently corrupt, but still). You are effectively a terrorist.

All the Templars want to do (at least in the times around the Third Crusade) is create world peace. Yes, it's through questionable means, but the intention is good.

-----

So yeah, rambling aside, what enemies would you actually side with if it was up to you?

It's hard for me to sympathize with Abstergo or the Templars behind the company when their goal is the salvation of humanity through enslavement. That's their goal - putting mankind under their rule completely and utterly in mind and body "so they don't hurt themselves" and to do this they not only started wars and killed millions of people (WWII files in AC2) but also manipulated the whole of global politics and conducted dangerous human experimentation that resulted in, again, severe casualties. This is all, of course, without any confirmation that they are even qualified to bring about the peace they say will follow their ultimate dominion over the Earth... considering their brutal means and failure to stay loyal even to each other through the ages - I would say even if they had their way, it would not result in their stated goal of peace... which is really just their way of saying that they will decide what peace will be with them in charge and everyone else their slaves.

Yes, Ezio may be a 'serial killer' - he's an ASSASSIN, it is implied in the job title really - but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter - and letting people keep their free will, even if they are going to f-up sometimes, is far more in the moral choice zone than Templar mentality... yeah, a lot of people may be killed to make that happen, but how many vs. those who died through Templar machinations? Did you really kill 10,000 guards? Even that would only be a fraction of Templar casualties when you pan out to the big picture.


Meanwhile... yes, I do often sympathize with the 'bad guy' or girl when they are trying to do the right thing in the wrong way - or don't have the option of doing the right thing in the right way - like in DA:O when you have to deal with Loghain... and enemy factions that are fighting in a war situation for what they believe in when you have to wipe them out, yes them too. Sometimes, rarely but sometimes, there's a nagging feeling that you'd rather be working for the other side - if it is because they are way cooler, get better lines, or just have the more together plan while you're stuck squatting in the shack you paid for yourself that your little band of nobodies decided to make their base for some reason. Funding the resistance out of my own pocket always annoys me a little bit - and then you get your ungrateful shop keepers or whatever that you've saved their daughter from rape and death but... that will still be full price friend - gotta make a living right? Really? Well... in that case gimme your daughter back because I'm going to have to sell her to afford the armor I need to go save your neighbor's mother from the same jerks who were only able to take her too because none of you people have a spine.

 

[Matt King]

i kindoff felt a bit sorry for sarren and benezia in mass effect as they had started of just trying to save the universe from destruction but got turned into puppets

 

[Ordinaryundone]

The Boss from MGS3 is a pretty obvious answer. Big Boss as well.

Despite being a complete asshole, I actually somewhat sympathize with General Shepard's motivation in Modern Warfare 2. It would really, really suck to be remembered for the rest of history as "That guy who got an entire army nuked". Doesn't excuse his actions in the the least though.

The Locust seem to be heading in a sympathetic direction in Gears of War. Things in the hollow seem to be just as bad, if not worse than on surface. It makes sense they'd want to get out of there and get away from Imulsion and the Lambent, but the humans are in the way. Plus, with all the biological testing stuff in the research facility in the second game....its starting to look like humanity might have started everything after all.

The Orks in Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. Sure, their overall goal may be the death of everything in the universe that isn't an Ork (and then, eventually, the Orks too), but they are just so damn likable that its hard to hate them for it, especially considering there are far more evil factions with similar goals.

Saturnos, Menardi, and Felix in Golden Sun. Though they aren't really VILLAINS, persay, just a rival group who unfortunately never really have the time or decency to sit down and actually tell the heroes whats going on. Turns out, they were actually trying to save the world as well, and were doing it the correct way. Alex can go screw himself though. He's likable, but not in the least sympathetic.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

The Boss from MGS3 is a pretty obvious answer. Big Boss as well.

Despite being a complete asshole, I actually somewhat sympathize with General Shepard's motivation in Modern Warfare 2. It would really, really suck to be remembered for the rest of history as "That guy who got an entire army nuked". Doesn't excuse his actions in the the least though.

The Locust seem to be heading in a sympathetic direction in Gears of War. Things in the hollow seem to be just as bad, if not worse than on surface. It makes sense they'd want to get out of there and get away from Imulsion and the Lambent, but the humans are in the way. Plus, with all the biological testing stuff in the research facility in the second game....its starting to look like humanity might have started everything after all.

The Orks in Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. Sure, their overall goal may be the death of everything in the universe that isn't an Ork (and then, eventually, the Orks too), but they are just so damn likable that its hard to hate them for it, especially considering there are far more evil factions with similar goals.

Saturnos, Menardi, and Felix in Golden Sun. Though they aren't really VILLAINS, persay, just a rival group who unfortunately never really have the time or decency to sit down and actually tell the heroes whats going on. Turns out, they were actually trying to save the world as well, and were doing it the correct way. Alex can go screw himself though. He's likable, but not in the least sympathetic.

 

[Malkavian]

The Orks in Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. Sure, their overall goal may be the death of everything in the universe that isn't an Ork (and then, eventually, the Orks too), but they are just so damn likable that its hard to hate them for it, especially considering there are far more evil factions with similar goals.

On that note, though not really games villains, I'd like to mention Magnus the Red and Alpharius, two of the traitor primarches. Maybe include Lorgar as well.

Magnus the Red tried to warn the Emperor of the impending betrayal of Horus, and as his reward, the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to lay waste to the Thousand Sons and their planet. Magnus tried to help, and the Emperor made it so that Magnus had no other choice than turn traitor.
Alpharius (and Omegon) would willingly give up everything, even humanity, to stop Chaos. He turned traitor just so he could helpt the traitor side win, wiping out his own brethren and subjugating the people he was made to protect, for the higher ideal of saving the galaxy.
Lorgar was without doubt the Emperors most loyal son, and the most humane, taking care to bring planets under the Empire in the most peaceful way possible, not only preserving cultures and countless lives, but also creating the most loyal of the Emperors subjects. As a reward, the Emperor shattered his religious faith, destroyed the icon of his successes, and commanded them to be butchers, thus driving them to seek something else to believe in. That something turned out to deceive and corrupt them, with the promise of saving humanity.

All three had noble goals, and all three failed in accomplishing them, instead becomming monsters.

 

[ajofflight]

I really thing that in any game where the story and writing is good, you have to be able to sympathize with the main villain(s). Every villain is, deep down, human (or elf, or dwarf, etc.), and has their own personal reasons and motivation.

 

[Drummie666]

hmm. This seems like a good time to rant more about Metroid Other M.

During the ending scene, I was yelling at the game to let me kick the ass of the federation soldiers as they were responsible for every single damn thing that happened on that bloody ship. Yet at the end, it seemed like the game was trying to make Madeline (I think that's what her name was) out to be the villain, instead of the Federation. Yet another reason I hate that fucking thing. Especially if my interpretation was correct.

Then there's the AI unit. She went nuts because of the federation being complete jackasses, so I refuse to call her the villain.

What I'm trying to say is that I have no idea who the game thought the villain was. It was undoubtedly the Federation, but the game seems to try and ignore that fact and blame the people that the federation fucked over.

 

[Aeshi]

I'm just about always rooting for the Villains.

The good guys tend to be things like Humans, Elves and Dwarves (AKA Humans,Humans with pointy ears and Short Humans.) whereas Villains tend to get things like Orcs,Zombies,Gargoyles and Lizardmen.

Yay Diversity!

 

[Nutcase]

Certainly; Alma from (the first) FEAR is case in point.

While playing, I was actually hoping for the Point Man to join forces with Paxton and go after the Armacham assholes with Alma's support. Would have made a better ending instead of this "evil always loses, horror elements always survive" stock approach.

 

[bruunwald]

I don't think I've ever played a game where the villain was doing something a reasonable person could "support." That seems to be the point of being a villain: either your intentions are good, but your means are completely evil, or your intentions are evil, despite the fact that you use puppies and bunnies to achieve them. Thus, "supporting" this behavior, either the ends or the means, has to be pretty much out of the question.

But, have I "sympathized" with a villain? Of course. Well-written and acted villains will reveal their more human shortcomings, or god-awful back stories, or the pain they have experienced, etc. It would do no good if the villain were a cartoon. Because they are often revealed to be human, it is easy to sympathize on some level with many of them.

 

[CheckD3]

Tales of Symphonia, it blends the line of who's right, and who's wrong, in a way few games do. The entire game switches so crazily it's mind blowing.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

On that note, though not really games villains, I'd like to mention Magnus the Red and Alpharius, two of the traitor primarches. Maybe include Lorgar as well.

Magnus the Red tried to warn the Emperor of the impending betrayal of Horus, and as his reward, the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to lay waste to the Thousand Sons and their planet. Magnus tried to help, and the Emperor made it so that Magnus had no other choice than turn traitor.
Alpharius (and Omegon) would willingly give up everything, even humanity, to stop Chaos. He turned traitor just so he could helpt the traitor side win, wiping out his own brethren and subjugating the people he was made to protect, for the higher ideal of saving the galaxy.
Lorgar was without doubt the Emperors most loyal son, and the most humane, taking care to bring planets under the Empire in the most peaceful way possible, not only preserving cultures and countless lives, but also creating the most loyal of the Emperors subjects. As a reward, the Emperor shattered his religious faith, destroyed the icon of his successes, and commanded them to be butchers, thus driving them to seek something else to believe in. That something turned out to deceive and corrupt them, with the promise of saving humanity.

All three had noble goals, and all three failed in accomplishing them, instead becomming monsters.

I dunno. They may have all had noble goals but they all also completely disobeyed the Emperor, whom they were created to love as a lord and father. Magnus, especially, repeatedly went against the Emperor's will by dabbling in Warp magic. Magnus may have thought he was strong enough to control it, but the Emperor (and anyone familiar with the setting) knews that NOTHING good comes from the Warp. He repeatedly disobeyed orders to stop, and considering the danger its amazing the Emperor was as lenient as he was. If Magnus had tried to pull that crap in the current Imperium, he would have gotten an Exterminatus called down on him before he even finished the rites.

As for Alpharion and Lorgar, they just didn't trust the Emperor. Same as Horus and the rest of the traitor primarchs, at the end of the day, which is their real failing. If they'd simply listened to him and had faith in his decisions, which was really all he asked, then everything would have been fine. But, like petulant children who see something they don't understand and think they know everything, they turned against him and went down the road to destruction. Also, it doesn't help that Lorgar, even though he was certainly the most peaceful Primarch, was again going about it EXACTLY THE WAY THE EMPEROR DIDN'T WANT. There was to be no religion or superstition in the Imperium of Man, and Lorgar went completely contrary to that goal.

Ever tried to help your parents, having all the best intentions, but they eventually get mad and yell at you because you are in the way? Thats the way the traitor primarchs were. Yes, its tragic that they were fairly noble figures, but at the end of the day they were also sons and soldiers. Their one job was to do what they were told, and they didn't listen. Its hard to feel bad for them in that regard, especially given the monstrosities they've become and the atrocities they've willingly committed.