Have you noticed that in some of the best films of all time, women play small roles or are tomboys?

[me and my dog]

You can't take the Clarice being interested in law enforcement apart. That would make her tomboyish at least. Also there is a difference between tomboyish and tomboy. Tomboyish- she is interested in male traits and activities(which Clarice is). Tomboy- She only does male activities and has no interest in female activities. You did not read the whole definition. Clarice is a girl that prefers activities that are of physical nature and are meant for the men dominion(law enforcement)=tomboy. These are the official facts. Stop trying to go around them. Annie Wilkes is a woman who is hard working on a farm. Since of course hard and dangerous work is a male dominion,the Wikipedia would classify her as tomboy(or tomboyish if you prefer).

Here's my Oxford English Dictionary of the word tomboyish.

"Adj.1. tomboyish - used of girls; wild and boisterous"

I believe it has the same definition in the free online dictionary. Neither of your definitions correspond to any "official" definition. Like it or not, because it's freely available to edit, wikipedia is not a reliable source, no matter the context. Check the sources it quotes.

However, this is rapidly turning into an argument over semantics, but I'm sure we can agree that Clarice Starling is far from "wild and boisterous".

On to your Annie Wilkes point, how exactly is hard working and dangerous a male dominion? Many women work in hard labour and dangerous jobs. You're eithercoming up with definitions so fast I can barely keep up with them, or you're totally dependent on stereotypes, which is exactly what I assume you started this thread to complain about.

Not to mention stereotypes that don't make much sense since when it comes to farming there are many cultures that consider it a woman's job anyway. Also, being in masculine jobs does not make an automatic tomboy. I know some seriously girly fire fighters. Since when does doing harder a formerly masculine jobs make you a tomboy? Are female doctors tomboys too?

By hard working I mean heavy lifting, doctors usually do not need to do that.

 

[octafish]

Ok, Ripley in both Alien and Aliens is the ultimate Mother Protector figure in modern Cinema, with Sarah Connor in T2 coming in second. Ripley, despite being on the back foot in Alien is still a protective mother figure, going back for Jones. It really come to the fore in Aliens, she is still just a civilian pilot, although no longer licenced, but really just a capable woman. However substitute Jones for a real child and Ripley's uber-protective-mother instincts kick in again. Leading her to doing whatever it takes to protect her surrogate child. The ultimate mother archetype. Mothers are just so tomboyish though.

 

[me and my dog]

This should probably be in the off-topic section since it isn't about gaming.

But I'll join in.

Okay, these movies you have selected, are they listed as the "top movies of all time" or are they your personal favorites and you like to associate with male leads?

How about these films: Golden Compass, Narnia, Labyrinth, Stardust, Cardcaptor Sakura: The Movie, or even 300? (Note that Gorgo was attempting to rally the city while her husband was out fighting, very important, very believable, and a great part of a husband/wife team).

Mind you, you are tying one hand behind our backs since you are not acknowledging the Warrior/Amazon aspect of women. You won't find many Southern belles acting all feminine and being part of something like Saving Private Ryan. But I don't see men in business suits being the lead there either. You have to look at the genre.

So let's go there: Gone with the Wind-a well known classic, Memoirs of a Geisha, The Grudge, The Ring, Descent, V for Vendetta, X-Men (Storm was still quite feminine in this one), Lady Hawke, Dune with its Benejezeret Witches, The Princess Bride, Pirates of the Caribbean, Mama Mia, Titanic (Not a "tom boy" since she wears dresses and jewelry she is just an adventurous woman see Tank Girl for comparison), Wuthering Heights (another classic), Ghost, The Lady in Red, The Devil Wears Prada, Basic Instinct, Driving Miss Daisy, Fried Green Tomatoes, Akeela and the Bee, The Secret Language of Bees, The Color Purple, Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Joyluck Club, Australia, Precious.

Don't tell me you haven't seen Precious!

You bring up Shawshank Redemption which is set in a male prison. That's like adding women to Hunt for Red October. I don't expect them to be there nor should they be, the setting doesn't allow for it. But you skipped Schindler's List if the little girl in the red coat didn't move you I will be shocked. And that isn't including the women trying to hide the children in the privies or the maid who was being stalked by the master of the house.

Now, if we accept that women can be aggressive and still be feminine we can add: The Matrix, The Legend of Zorro, Tank Girl, Twelfth Night, Willow, and Long Kiss Goodnight.

Now if you acknowledge even the tomboys as being girls we can add: Tank Girl, Bonnie and Clyde, Thelma and Louise, Hell Boy, Battle Royale, Kill Bill, G.I. Jane, and The General's Daughter.

How about miniseries or television series: Dinotopia, Weeds, TruBlood, Rome, and the upcoming Game of Thrones? (Yes, you can BET on that one!)

So women are out there in good films with female leads. I think the question is: do you watch them?

Uh no I have not seen precious because I am of male gender!

 

[me and my dog]

Well, I like women being in movies, but most people wouldn't want very girly-girl women in movies, as it would be annoying. Plus, everyone likes seeing a hot chick kicking ass.

Honestly it sounds like you're just complaining that women aren't being portrayed as housewives and damsels in distress, which is more sexist than some movie director deciding that his movie doesn't need a female role in it.

So your saying that Cinderella,snow white,sleeping beauty, and all the other princess films were sexist?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Casablanca
The Sound of Music
The King and I
Mary Poppins
Snow White
Nikita
Bedknobs and Broomsticks
Thelma and Louise
Ghostbusters
West Side Story
Vertigo
Out of Africa
Carrie
Misery
Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
Rebecca
A Streetcar named Desire
Fatal Attraction
Rear Window
Breakfast at Tiffany's
Lolita
Witness
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Alien
Silence of the Lambs
Basic Instinct

They are there, but it usually takes a great director to cast a good woman. Charlize Theron in Monster, Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovitch. There's quite a few.

 

[me and my dog]

So, you listed "great" movies with few to no important females, then list some films that do have important females, then deny some people's examples against you because they aren't "great" films... sounds more like there are just a decent number of good films with little significant female presence, rather than all of them. Even if it is the majority, that's hardly amazing; women have historically been treated as inferior and receive the same treatment as underrepresented minorities (even though they aren't one) today, in all forms of media and even, to some degree, in real life.

Also specifically, Shawshank Redemption took place in a men's prison. There were scenes outside said prison, which depicted few to no characters who were not in the prison earlier. They shouldn't have been expected to feature women unless you want them to shoehorn some interaction with a woman into the plot for no reason but to have a female character. You might as well argue that the movie under represents humans who are neither prisoners nor prison workers. It's true, but no one would expect a film about a prison to feature a lot of non-prison related people.

Uh I did not pick these films because they had small female roles. I picked them because they are great films(ex:Oscar winners). They just happened to have small female roles.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Also some the best war movies like saving private Ryan and the hurt locker won best picture and neither of those even featured women. Don't say that men play a bigger part in wars than women because we have ton of women defending our country along with men.

Let me just point it out that Saving Private Ryan took place during World War 2. While you're sitting there scratching you head wondering what that has to do with anything, let me point this out:

During WW2, only men could enlist. Woman could be nurses, and could be on the frontlines, but were never expected or trained to fight.[footnote]Well, with the exception of Soviet woman, but there weren't Soviets in the movie.[/footnote]

But for the rest: They're just some examples. A lot of good movies have girls as lead roles, and they aren't always tomboys, it's just to appeal to the woman while still being loved by the men.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time.

They had plenty of power female characters. The doctor who gave her life to try and defend the people she spent her entire life protecting, the Pilot who gave her life fighting what for what she thought was right and the Warrior Princess, to whom defended her homeland.

Inception is the most recent blockbuster to grace the box office and to feature a powerful female lead who was brought on to the team because she had a skill that none of the other men had or were capable of doing it for the job.

How about Predator? How about Sarah Conner from the Terminator series?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You could equally point to the fact that most male characters are either self-effacing nerds or macho-jocks.

 

[me and my dog]

Very well said about Inception.

By the way, you should try using the quote function, good sir. See the reply button doesn't really work, but when you quote someone, like I'm doing now, they'll get a message, and the discussion can keep flowing without having to check back on old threads to see if anyone's replied to you.

Ah Thank you I have been on this site for a year and always felt it would dumb of me to ask how to do that.

Very well said about Inception.

What are you? Furburts number one fan? You don't need to congratulate him. Also if you don't have anything to say about the thread then get out.

 

[me and my dog]

Also some the best war movies like saving private Ryan and the hurt locker won best picture and neither of those even featured women. Don't say that men play a bigger part in wars than women because we have ton of women defending our country along with men.

Let me just point it out that Saving Private Ryan took place during World War 2. While you're sitting there scratching you head wondering what that has to do with anything, let me point this out:

During WW2, only men could enlist. Woman could be nurses, and could be on the frontlines, but were never expected or trained to fight.[footnote]Well, with the exception of Soviet woman, but there weren't Soviets in the movie.[/footnote]

But for the rest: They're just some examples. A lot of good movies have girls as lead roles, and they aren't always tomboys, it's just to appeal to the woman while still being loved by the men.

Uh dude maybe you should watch saving private Ryan again. There's a whole room full of girls working on typewriters at the beginning and they don't say even anything.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Also some the best war movies like saving private Ryan and the hurt locker won best picture and neither of those even featured women. Don't say that men play a bigger part in wars than women because we have ton of women defending our country along with men.

Let me just point it out that Saving Private Ryan took place during World War 2. While you're sitting there scratching you head wondering what that has to do with anything, let me point this out:

During WW2, only men could enlist. Woman could be nurses, and could be on the frontlines, but were never expected or trained to fight.[footnote]Well, with the exception of Soviet woman, but there weren't Soviets in the movie.[/footnote]

But for the rest: They're just some examples. A lot of good movies have girls as lead roles, and they aren't always tomboys, it's just to appeal to the woman while still being loved by the men.

Uh dude maybe you should watch saving private Ryan again. There's a whole room full of girls working on typewriters at the beginning and they don't say even anything.

I have watched the movie. It's a fucking good movie.

Yes, there are the typewriters, but what would they say? And did you even want them to say anything? I certainly didn't, but if you did, mind enlightening me?

And I must point out the scene with the Ryan's mother: yes, she didn't say anything, but the scene was so powerful she didn't need to say anything.

 

[me and my dog]

Also some the best war movies like saving private Ryan and the hurt locker won best picture and neither of those even featured women. Don't say that men play a bigger part in wars than women because we have ton of women defending our country along with men.

Let me just point it out that Saving Private Ryan took place during World War 2. While you're sitting there scratching you head wondering what that has to do with anything, let me point this out:

During WW2, only men could enlist. Woman could be nurses, and could be on the frontlines, but were never expected or trained to fight.[footnote]Well, with the exception of Soviet woman, but there weren't Soviets in the movie.[/footnote]

But for the rest: They're just some examples. A lot of good movies have girls as lead roles, and they aren't always tomboys, it's just to appeal to the woman while still being loved by the men.

Uh dude maybe you should watch saving private Ryan again. There's a whole room full of girls working on typewriters at the beginning and they don't say even anything.

I have watched the movie. It's a fucking good movie.

Yes, there are the typewriters, but what would they say? And did you even want them to say anything? I certainly didn't, but if you did, mind enlightening me?

And I must point out the scene with the Ryan's mother: yes, she didn't say anything, but the scene was so powerful she didn't need to say anything.

Yes the scene was powerful but the role wasn't.

 

[me and my dog]

Well, I like women being in movies, but most people wouldn't want very girly-girl women in movies, as it would be annoying. Plus, everyone likes seeing a hot chick kicking ass.

Honestly it sounds like you're just complaining that women aren't being portrayed as housewives and damsels in distress, which is more sexist than some movie director deciding that his movie doesn't need a female role in it.

So your saying that Cinderella,snow white,sleeping beauty, and all the other princess films were sexist?

I don't know about him, but yeah. Think for a moment, they all want to basically be housewives and all need to be saved. The only one even remotely non-sexist was Belle.

What housewives? It's not like there's a tv series called the real housewives of wonderland. Also It doesn't matter if the movie was offensive just as long as it was a good movie. 300 angered a lot of Arabians but it was still an awesome movie. If the princess films angered any women then I didn't hear any complaints.

 

[me and my dog]

Also some the best war movies like saving private Ryan and the hurt locker won best picture and neither of those even featured women. Don't say that men play a bigger part in wars than women because we have ton of women defending our country along with men.

Women were only recently allowed to join the military, and they still aren't allowed to be front line infantry. Hate to say it, but men really do play a much bigger role in war than women.

Uh dude. When did I ever say that the girl from precious was a tomboy? Learn to read next time. Also women are more delicate than men. For starters they have a smaller part in war than men.

 

[quantum mechanic]

Re: Aragorn & Arwen in Lord of the Rings movies:

Arwen has a much, much larger part in the movies than she does in the books. She is only in Rivendell (halfway through 1st book) for a part of a chapter, then she isn't mentioned again until the end part of Return of the King (and again, she's in about 2 chapters).

/pedantic

 

[BlumiereBleck]

In Donnie Darko, Jena Malone got a pretty good role