Hey Dragon, You Can Have Her: The Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion

[ethaninja]

Onyx Oblivion is coming, and he's ANGRY.

YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT THAT I'M FUCKING ANGRY.

Let's just hope Pimp doesn't get here too, or someone's gonna have to choke a *****.

Anyway, Oblivion was a game that I didn't like, but I could appreciate. It was a good game, just not a game that I liked.

Bethesda were pretty fail at that point. So, to sort of go off topic a bit (but still fairley relevent), the new Fallout will or should be pretty damn excellent as it wont be by Bethesda. But yeah, I could never get into Oblivion (or any other Bethesda tite after Morrowind).

 

[Jandau]

I found that Oblivion has absolutely no redeeming factors as far as I care.

It has terrible gameplay that was outdated when Morrowind came out, and was just plain insulting this time around.

It has terrible gameplay mechanics, mostly tied to the nonsensical leveling system.

It has no story. Seriously, the plot is paper-thin, skin-deep and terribly written, with sidequests not even pretending to give you a motivation. The main characters are some of the most forgettable and unremarkable people I've seen in gaming. The sole exception (which someone will call me out on eventually) is the Dark Brotherhood quest chain, but that's about it.

It's boring to look at. Sure, it's pretty, but the actual design is terribly unimaginative. I don't mind generic fantasy settings. There's plenty to do with them (as has been proven by games from Baldur's Gate 2 all the way to Dragon Age), but Oblivion does none of those things. It's just boring.

They forgot voice acting, or recording decent sound effects, or music in general.

It was a bad game.

 

[SavingPrincess]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this already..... but I will post again since this thread came up today.

Calling out old games for flaws is kinda cheap and easy, like a 5 dollar whore.

If you want to review things, I would suggest reviewing something that has been released in the last 6 months. This way people won't think you are just doin a copy/paste from the other 1,000 reviews out there. Plus it gives you a chance to show some originality and insight that people might relate to. The whole taking something 4 years old and trying to sound original is difficult.

I read your post and felt like you possibly never played the game, just typed your own version of others opinions. Maybe you watched those youtube walk throughs, but I fail to see how this isn't just another case of "if it's popular, then I will be cool and say it sucks"

In my own defense (for no reason as most won't care), I've never actually READ a review on the game. I played it extensively on Xbox 360 trying to get through the main quest, then played it again later on PC (with mods) because I honestly really wanted to like the game.

That being said, I form my own opinions. Accuse me of being wrong, shortsighted, judgmental, whatever; but if you accuse me of plagiarizing, echoing sentiments that are not formed in my own head by me, then I will completely ignore anything you have to say whenever I see you on this forum, because to me, integrity is the most important thing.

It's also quite possible, that maybe many people came to the same conclusions on their own because those conclusions are quite possibly accurate. There isn't some club that we belong to where we decide to come down on a game because it's popular. In my opinion. Oblivion was decidedly overrated and full of beautifully rendered hot air. If you disagree, that's fine, but do not accuse people of simply copy-pasting the opinions of others unless you have concrete evidence to back that up.

 

[ArcWinter]

Well, no.

The reason I love Oblivion so much is because it was so... uh, the only word that can fit here is awesome. But really, I have reasons.

1. Your character isn't some established personality (I hate games where they give you a name and history and say "go play". Well, I can't, I'm someone else now. Thanks). And he's important! Hell, you save the world. AND YOU ARE WHOEVER YOU WANT TO BE.

2. You didn't like the main quest? Well, alright, y'know, it's your opinion. Personally I though it was cool, but I'm not an English writing major (yay). I'm pretty sure that the guild quests made up for it though. You said a thief should have a thief background? Well, they can have a thief story. Also, Dark Brotherhood. Fun times.

3. You didn't like any quests? Don't do any. Oblivion has such a huge world you don't need to. Also, just because fast-travel is an option doesn't mean you have to use it. I only used it for quests. I've spent probably around 50% of my time playing Oblivion just tooling around in the countryside, emptying out dungeons by the bucketload. Or whatever standard unit monsters are measured in.

4. Were you playing on the 360 or PC? Play it on the PC. Really. There are SO many good community mods, it is pretty much ridiculous. Speaking of mods, specifically official mods, Shivering Isles.

I'll repeat that. 5. Shivering Isles.

Again? No? Alright. Shivering Isles was probably the most uncannybrutal part of Obliivon. The expansion was better than the original game, despite being one fourth the size. It was so much fun, and it looked so crazy, it was like you were in your own fantasy world! Unlike Oblivion, which was the traditional forest/field/lake/swamp/mountain/snow type of thing you could find in present-day England. But Shivering Isles was so incredibly delirious biznasty, it was unbelievable. It pretty much made up all the flaws in the vanilla game, and then some. Plus Sheogorath was hilarious.

6. I'm not sure how the combat was bad. I mean, yeah, it wasn't exemplary, unless you were a wizard, in which case YOU CAN SHOOT LIGHTNING WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING. If you were an archer, you can pretty much snipe people. If you're a warrior... uh... hit stuff. I don't know about you guys, but punching a minotaur or armored demonic warrior to death is pretty exciting. You can't get as many weapon choices as in Morrowind (my wakizashi! No!) but getting and then enchanting your weapons to destroy is pretty fun. The movement is sort of iffy, but that's more of a "Bethesda-wide" problem. I felt that in Fallout 3 and Morrowind as well.

7. Yeah... the leveling monsters was sort of lame. However, this only became clear near the super-endgame, at about level 30, where a goblin could take 100 hits to kill but kill you in 20 hits. But the actual character development was fun. Do I want to be able to outrun everything on the planet, be able to take an army on wearing nothing, or be able to one-hit-kill a god? Also, magic. YES. You could do anything. It wasn't a class-based system, you just picked some from the start and could do anything from there.

8. Okay, I know you probably didn't pick up on this, but the lore of the game world was indescribably interesting. In Morrowind, I picked up and read every book in the game (I probably had every book in the end). In Oblivion, I did the same thing. Some stories were hilarious, some boring, some informative, some unnecessary. Either way, I got to know the world. It is fully realized and completely EPIC. Did you know that the plane where Nirn (the planet) exists is called Mundus? Did you know that this isn't the first time the Daedra of Oblivion have tried to invade? Did you know about the Dwemer and Ayleids?

No? Well, that's fine I guess. BUT IF YOU KNEW YOU WOULD LOVE IT.

Oh yeah. Voice acting. Uh... we don't like to mention that around here.


anyway i love this game probably the best ive ever played i mean i havent played many but wow i could play this thing forever literally right isaac

 

[SavingPrincess]

This is the really interesting part about people defending games they like. All of the below statements were quoted from the above user in the post defending this game:

- Your character isn't some established personality

- I'm pretty sure that the guild quests made up for [the main quest]

- I've spent probably around 50% of my time playing Oblivion just tooling around in the countryside

- There are SO many good community mods

- The expansion was better than the original game

- [The Expansion] was like you were in your own fantasy world! Unlike Oblivion, which was the traditional forest/field/lake/swamp/mountain/snow type of thing you could find in present-day England.

- I mean, yeah, [the combat] wasn't exemplary, unless you were a wizard

- Yeah... the leveling monsters was sort of lame.

- In Morrowind, I picked up and read every book in the game (I probably had every book in the end). In Oblivion, I did the same thing.

- IF YOU KNEW [the story inside the game's books] YOU WOULD LOVE IT.

- Oh yeah. Voice acting. Uh... we don't like to mention that around here.

anyway i love this game probably the best ive ever played i mean i havent played

It seems like we agree on a lot of things... just not the overall thing. In praising the game you quite literally pointed out everything that kept me from really enjoying the game. I don't play games to read books by the way, I use those paper things for that... or the occasional e-reader. Maybe I'm weird... I don't know.

 

[mexicola]

In praising the game you quite literally pointed out everything that kept me from really enjoying the game.

People have different opinions? Well I'll be damned...

 

[g3n3ricusername]

Did you even play this game? Or even understand what an RPG is? Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not) but RPG stands for role-playing game, not make a character for me and give them a backstory and let me move them around game.

It appears to me that the main reason you did not have fun is that you lack the requisite creativity. You are supposed to create a backstory, and decide what the hell you want to do. You seemed lost by the fact the the main quest was not mandatory. If you like games that take you by the hand and drag you along, requiring no thought of your own, that's fine, but don't bash oblivion because it's not your favorite type of game.

I find it strange that you said the world in oblivion was big, because to me, compared to Morrowind, it was teeny tiny.

I personnally saw nothing wrong with the combat or the magic. Maybe I'm just not extremely difficult to please.

I also think you lack even a basic understanding on the lore in the Tamriel or any of the races/religions/etc because with that knowledge the story isn't half bad. It is not as good as Morrowind but it is not bad.

The story in the beginning seemed pretty straighforward to me. You are in jail, escape tunnel conviently nearby, Emperor comes with blades, they go through the tunnel, you escape after them, you follow them, assassins come, people die. What part did not make sense?

You seem to think the existance of quests and places to explore apart from the main quest is a bad thing. I don't see how this could be. This is not meant to be a short game.

Why did you keep referencing the 90s? I thought that was weird.

I did not feel at all as if I wear stuck in molasses. I guess I was too distracted from concentrating on the walking by how much I enjoyed the game.

The voice acting was not the main problem, as in Morrowind there was only one voice actor for each race and gender, but in Morrowind the conversation was all written and not spoken which allowed for more expansive and realistiic conversations.

Also, the leveling was weird. I agree with you on that point, but it was not game-breakingly bad. Also also, I don't understand why everyone was crying about the fact that they needed to keep track of all points gained in order to get a "decent character". In my bajillion hours of playing the game, I never kept track of anything, and things still died when I hit them with my sword and I still had fun, so I guess these people just have issues.

In summary: Oblivion was dandy, had some bad points, was a thousand times better with mods, still not as good as Morrowind. Some of your points were valid, but most were not.

 

[SavingPrincess]

-snip-

Welcome to the Escapist!

So for me, a "Role Playing Game" is nebulous. It could refer to a game with leveling mechanics, it could refer to a game where you assume the role of a character and take them through their story, or like you said, it could be a game where you try and inject yourself in to the game in the place of the main character.

I hope I do not "lack the requisite" creativity or I'm totally screwed in my upcoming profession (I am a Film Scoring major). That being said, I play games so that I can be entertained, not so that I can entertain myself... if that makes any sense.

Let me elaborate.

If a game "requires" you to be creative in order to enjoy it, I look at that as a failure on the part of the writers in the game. You may not look at it that way, I do. The type of game where you are required to come up with everything on your own (a la Dungeons & Dragons) in a video game environment, is more of a "Hero Simulator."

Let me quote the back of the box:

[HEADING=2]TURN THE TIDE OF DARKNESS[/HEADING]
With the empire ready to crumble, the gates of
Oblivion are open and demons march upon the
land. You must find the lost heir to the
throne and unravel the sinister plot that
threatens to destroy all of Tamriel.

No where did it say, "Or... you could not... and do other things." Here's what else it said:

[HEADING=2]LIVE ANOTHER LIFE IN ANOTHER WORLD[/HEADING]
Create and play and [sic] character you can imagine,
from the noble warrior to the sinister assassin.

What it did not say was "create and play a character that you have to imagine, because we're not going to tell you anything about them." While I get the intent and appeal of something like that, you can't use it as an excuse for laziness in writing. Other wRPG's with similar intent have given you the ability to be who you want and give you a solid back story. I'm down with the "in jail" storyline, but having to "come up" with why on the spot without any sort of coaching, like "Hey, you're in jail, it's up to you to decide why you are," leaves (a lot of) players with the anticipation of exposition or insight into what happened.

You don't want your players to get to a certain point in the game and think to themselves "I'm a totally good guy, why did I start off in jail? What happened?" It's like giving a character amnesia without any sort of revelation; you're just supposed to know. That (to me) is poor design. Games like Mass Effect and Insert other BioWare RPG here have done this far better, by making you an integral part of the story, letting you be who you are and making you feel as though what you're doing is impacting and important. Oblivion always left me feeling like I was on the outside looking in, like the whole world was aware of this big inside joke that I wasn't allowed to know about; and I'm not about to read 20+ hours of in-game books to fill in those gaps, that's not why I play games.

 

[ArcWinter]

This is the really interesting part about people defending games they like. All of the below statements were quoted from the above user in the post defending this game:

me

It seems like we agree on a lot of things... just not the overall thing. In praising the game you quite literally pointed out everything that kept me from really enjoying the game. I don't play games to read books by the way, I use those paper things for that... or the occasional e-reader. Maybe I'm weird... I don't know.

Ha, that is pretty cool. I guess the only real explanation is different tastes.

But, for the books, that is one of the things I loved about Oblivion. It made it seem real, or at least immersive, with little touches like that. On your map, the cartographer's signature is in the bottom left corner (I think). Each book had it's own little story, or explained some part of the world, or even gave you unimportant knowledge (for example, I now know that the realm of Akavir is badass). Some were funny. The Lusty Argonian Maid, anyone?

I don't play games for the books either, but I felt it was an extremely nice touch, like the audiologs in Bioshock. It filled in backstory, but unlike the audiologs, it took time away from playing to read, which some people might not have liked. I enjoyed it, the thought of my bloodthirsty Redguard warrior sitting down to enjoy some poetry is very funny. Also, reading books is completely unnecessary. You can just ignore books if you want, but you'll be missing something. Sort of like real life, except in real life books don't increase your skills as easily.

To be honest, I don't know why it is my favorite game. I've been more excited being ambushed Fallout 3 and been more exploration-happy in Morrowind (which are my two favorite things to do in a game), so all I know is that Oblivion did something right.

And that I can't wait for Elder Scrolls V.

if they are still making it i heard a rumor they arent but it cant be true no it mustnt oh the horror

 

[fanklok]

Seriously, my archer had daggers (not swords, for role playing's sake) as backup...AND I ENDED UP USING THEM MORE THAN A BOW.

Really? The only problem I've had with archery is running out of arrows, due to the fact that I must kill everything that isn't going to call me scum and is in the wilderness. That and I hardly remembered to go to town to resupply even though I out leveled those 400 Iron arrows 15 levels ago, stupid merchants need to start stocking Elven and Dwarven arrows.

Maybe that enchanted Daedric Bow of Nuclear Explosions and Star of Azura had something to do with it?

My only problem with the game was the fact that you're hero who could run full sprint with several hundred pounds of equipment in his pack couldn't lift a body more then a few feet in the air. I had a weird habit of throwing corpses of ledges.

 

[ben---neb]

Finally, someone who didn't like Oblivion. I have to say though that I went through a period of loving it before I saw through the ultimatly shallow world they had created.

And the sheer number of mods I downloaded to make it a 'good' game was insulting.

 

[zombiesinc]

I love(d) Oblivion, but agree with every single point you've made. The amount of shine, clunky controls, cruddy story, and repetitive voices were beyond frustrating. But there certainly were some major positives that went unmentioned here.

An entertaining read.

 

[Limzz]

Firstly this smells strongly of Yahtzee wannabe. You spend half your review complaining about the lack of immersion and coherence in the opening scene, and another good chunk complaining about the main quest. The game does have many faults such as a leveling system that makes as much sense as modern religion but considering the abundance of excellent elements people have not given the game a "pass" but chosen to accept its faults and embrace it as a great game.

 

[SavingPrincess]

I hope you don't get the wrong idea, but I also hope you get to reviewing something not over 3 years old. Hell, lets go for something that was released in this last year, no? Never mind. I am not worthy of your time nor text as a response.

I'm pretty sure I've "reviewed" both Heavy Rain and Modern Warfare 2 ... maybe it was just my imagination.

Thanks for playing though.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

Spoiler: A whole bunch of words that are not really worth re-reading went here.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this already..... but I will post again since this thread came up today.

kinda cheap and easy, like a 5 dollar whore.

In my own defense (for no reason as most won't care), I've never actually READ a review on the game.

You have never read a review on the game??

Well..... then..... I guess I...... have no reason to say......

Nah, forget that.

Try making a review for a game that came out in the last two weeks(or maybe the last year or two). I don't think you can, because you only have access to old reviews/games.

Prove me wrong guy.

I never said you did the plag thing, but I think you protest much. So prove me wrong dude.

Now that I can respond to what you told me... I may make the bold accusation and say......

nothing, if you can review something in an original way.

But I have already crossed the line in which you said you won't respond to me. (so sorry) So I will just wait until you have a new review, and I will see what you don't copy/paste from other post links. Since that is what you asked me to do.

You are your own mind and make original thoughts into reviews. I have no reason to believe you cheat on these things. I hope you don't get the wrong idea, but I also hope you get to reviewing something not over 3 years old. Hell, lets go for something that was released in this last year, no? Never mind. I am not worthy of your time nor text as a response.

Au contraire annoying internet personality type #46 - completely ignoring everything you say until the end of time itself is the only reasonable course of action for those unfortunate souls that are currently plagued by you paying attention to the things they say, your veiled attempts to appear contrite via self-effacement will be rightfully perceived as mere diversions, and only a simpleton would read that post and conclude you are sorry about anything.

This is not just me coming to the defense of my fellow Adults Anonymous member, as I had already reached the following conclusion about your personage some time ago after reading some of the "responses" you've left elsewhere: You sir/madam/homunculus, are a singularly unpleasant person of dubious parentage and moral character - fie on thee!

You ask SavingPrincess to "prove himself" to you? Ha! That is honestly quite priceless, once you get past how asinine that entire concept is.

[HEADING=3]Your approval is not something of merit.[/HEADING]​

I can think of few direr imprecations than the suggestion that an individual's conduct meets with your approval. What you are doing here is trolling, and your posting elsewhere shows quite clearly that being a condescending jerk for no clear reason is not atypical behavior for you.

Accusing writers of plagiarism because they comment on readily apparent flaws that just so happened to be pointed out by other "reviewers"? Insulting enough, as accusations of plagiary to those of our mindset are akin to insulting our mothers in terms of how riled up it will make us - speaking as a writer, I can attest that the responses you've received from SavingPrincess have been far more civil than your baseless accusation(s) deserves, and your absurd request to "prove you own a new game", as if the lack of such is a black mark against a man who doesn't actually review games so much as write highly opinionated editorial retrospectives, is quite literally mind-boggling.

In summation: Until such time as you have learned how to conduct yourself in a fashion that even attempts to pass itself off as civility, I hereby suggest you refrain from commenting anywhere, and thereby marginally improve the quality of these fine forums by your absence. Since you're not going to do that though, I propose that everyone else simply pretend you have while we hope you bring down moderator wrath upon yourself, as you doubtless eventually will based on your conduct so far.