Homosexuality

[caselj01]

I am a homophobe. By which I mean that I have an irrational fear of homosexuals. I try to be all "Everyone has the right to be who they are" etc but to be honest the thought of 2 guys actually doing it freaks me out.

 

[firemark]

If your are against it ("homophobic") why?
If not, are you disgusted with some people's behaviour towards gay men and women?

Let's set the record straight first. Homophobic: Homo means "same" Phobos means "fear" so if you are homophobic you are afraid of things staying the same. I'm all for the argument that words have meanings and they are deemed meaningful by society, but there is no way being "homophobic" can mean the same thing as scared of homosexuals. Secondly, if you are opposed to homosexuality you are not homophobic (using the common speech definition "afraid of homosexuals). Do not confuse the two.

I am personally opposed to the act, due to religious beliefs. However, if society, which it has, deems it normal to be in a homosexual relationship than it should be "legal" to allow them to enter same-sex unions and given all the same tax breaks etc. that a married couple (man and woman) would receive.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I don't care, to be honest...

 

[Gigano]

Whatever consenting adults do in private is absolutely none of my or anyone else's business.

There's no logical or sound ethical basis for condemning homosexuality as far as I'm concerned, and given the discriminatory harm such condemnation is doing, anyone holding it should themselves be relentlessly ridiculed and condemned as backwards, bigoted, and utterly unethical. They of course deserve no more respect and no better treatment than they're willing to extend to any non-harmful group.

 

[Jonabob87]

You'll have to forgive us for feeling like we're victims... We kind of ARE.
You'll notice, that we are still being actively discriminated against. Large portions of the world hate us for being what we are, for merely doing what feels good and natural to us. Many nations in the world won't let us marry the ones we love, and they don't have a non-religious leg to stand on. Tell me... If there was something that prevented you from getting married to the person you loved... wouldn't you feel victimized?

Surely when we're talking about a religious ceremony such as marriage, a religious leg is more than enough to stand on? How can you talk about your right to freedom of expression but the church can't express theirs?

Marriage isn't (or at least, it shouldn't be) a purely religious ceremony. Marriage predates religion. The church, simply put, is wrong.

Now if a church doesn't want to perform gay marriages, then by all means that's their right. But making gay marriage illegal based on a purely religious standpoint is ridiculous.

Sorry but marriage pre-dates reliable history, so it's not possible to say whether it predates religion or not (and I SERIOUSLY doubt that it does).

Regardless, from an Abrahamic stand point the first two humans on earth were the first married couple, so to them marriage is the oldest of all earthly institutions. Who are you to tell them different?

On the basis of legalistic marriage, I couldn't care less. As long as people stop bitching about the church not wanting to do it, I'm more than happy.

 

[Mookie_Magnus]

I am a homophobe. By which I mean that I have an irrational fear of homosexuals. I try to be all "Everyone has the right to be who they are" etc but to be honest the thought of 2 guys actually doing it freaks me out.

At least you openly admit to this. Not like these folks who claim tolerance, but their actions belie their words.

Also, in your case, it is an actual phobia, as in an irrational fear instead of hatred.
Just... just try not to think about dudes getting freaky, and don't gay-bash. You'll be fine.

 

[Mrrrgggrlllrrrg]

Opinions of homosexuality? How is this still a topic of discussion? It doesnt matter if you do it in the butt or not there are more important things that we as a species should focus on.

 

[firemark]

I'm fine with it, of course. But, like with any minority group anywhere, stop acting like attention-whore children. We need Gay Pride Parades as much as we need Black History Month, i.e. not at all. It just teaches us to segregate each other. Why not have a "Celebration Month" or "History Day" or something where everyone can enjoy it? Why are you so special that you get to have your parade? I'm sure if someone started a "Straight Pride Parade" they would be called bible-thumping hate-mongering un-Canadian terrorists.

Honestly, those flashy parades make the normal ones look bad. I swear there would be less homophobia if they didn't exist. Take your typical, average, working-class hero 20-something club-bopping straight guy. He's a macho dood. He walks down the street and is assaulted by a tsunami of colour, feathers, and guys in tights. It reminds the guy of musicals and chick flicks and he fucking hates that shit. It makes him want to punch a kitten. He sees the words "Gay pride". Now he associates the word "Gay" with something he hates.

But yeah, otherwise, go ahead. Adopt kids, marry, do whatever you want. Just realize you're not special. Different, yes, but not special anymore.

I was just going to quote the top part of your comment, but I can't. The whole thing makes me want to scream: "YES!". You are absolutely right! By separating themselves from society, homosexuals and African Americans (Blacks, or whatever is PC these days) are themselves causing the segregation! Thank you for saying this, although I might have toned it down a bit. However I agree with all of it.

 

[Falseprophet]

As far as I can tell, I'm as straight as they come, but have never really had a problem with homosexuality. Even growing up among Catholics, going to Catholic school, surrounded by first and second-generation Southern and Eastern European immigrants (including my family), there didn't seem to be a rational reason for homophobia.

As far as same-sex marriage is concerned, I would argue my society (Canada) already resolved all the issues concerning it years ago:

-On the argument that "children should have a mother and a father": We don't automatically take children away from single parents.

-Marriage is for procreation: We don't strip the status of marriage from infertile couples, nor is procreation a legal requirement for marriage. Not every religion sees marriage as primarily for procreation either. The United Church of Canada, the second-largest sect in the country, teaches marriage is about companionship, with children being a "blessing from God". In any event, non-fertile heteros can adopt or use fertilization technologies, it's unjust to deny it to LGBTQ parents.

-Homosexuality is deviant behaviour: Science is long past that definition. There is plenty of evidence that here are some hypotheses on why that might be [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals]). So the "unnatural" argument doesn't hold water. There is also no data indicating homosexuals or their children are more likely to be criminal or antisocial than heteros or their children.

The only arguments that remain are religious or otherwise irrational (the "ick" factor), which I reject, because i) religious arguments that cannot be backed up on a rational or empirical basis have no place in public policy, ii) no one interest group gets to dictate "appropriate" behaviour to the rest of us without reasonable grounds, and iii) some churches are happy to marry same-sex couples and to prevent that would be to interfere with their religious freedom.

On that note, I agree no clergyperson should be forced to marry anyone against their will because liberal democracy means accepting even people you don't like have their rights too, but anyone marrying couples as a secular official of the state should marry any legal couple who comes before them.

 

[zerofan]

Stop trying to pick apart what people say. By "us" he means "people like me" just like homosexuals say "us" to refer to "people like me".

I've been told off for kissing my wife in public before (by some random old man) so it isn't a one way street.

 

[JoshLalic]

I've never had any problems with gay guys, but just about every lesbian I've met has been a huge ***** and this has sort of made me dislike lesbians, even if I havent met them.

 

[rockyoumonkeys]

Regardless, from an Abrahamic stand point the first two humans on earth were the first married couple, so to them marriage is the oldest of all earthly institutions. Who are you to tell them different?

Someone who doesn't believe in your religion and shouldn't be forced to live by its rules.

And as religion predates "reliable history", that pretty much relieves your religion of its ownership claim on marriage, doesn't it? Or do the "finders keepers" rules still apply?

 

[Saltyk]

I have a problem with that first statement. I know people who have problems with homosexuality, but it's more of a "I don't get it" than "I hate it" thing. They aren't bad people. They just have trouble understanding why. My grandparents are Catholic, and I'm sure have issues with that concept, but they aren't bad people. In fact, I'd say that they would accept a gay family member, they would just have moral qualms about their lifestyle.

And what do you mean gay jokes? The one I hear the most is "That was gay." Is that such a problem? Actually saw a commercial where some teens were talking about things being "gay", then Wanda Sykes walks up and starts talking about it being insulting and how would they feel if she started saying things were so "16 year old boy." Personally, I feel its a slang term. Not meant to offend (though I can see how it would offend some). Personally when I think "X is gay", I'm not implying that gay is bad. It's a completely different word to me.

Oh, and if Wanda Sykes did that to me, I'd look at her and say: "That was really gay, lady. Really gay!"

Now, before you think I'm a terrible person, let me clarify. I have no problem with homosexuality or bi-sexuality. I think of it like this. I'm a guy and I really like girls. They are really attractive to me. I'm not making myself think that. I don't see a guy and have to force myself from thinking how cute he is. I'm attracted to women as naturally as breathing. On top of that, so many people have problems with homosexuals, why would anyone CHOOSE to be that way? Obviously, they are just as naturally attracted to the same sex as i am the opposite sex. I'd just rather not be forced to see some of it, as it does make me a little uncomfortable.

Well, if the only gay joke you hear is "thats gay" (which is hardly a joke anyway), then you haven't hear even the tip of the iceberg, but I guess being "gay" I'll notice this a lot more than you, for that exact reason that I and others like me are the target of those jokes. But lets imagine you had curly hair, or was black. Any jokes made about this I have no doubt you'd notice a lot more than now, same as if you yourself was homosexual.

Some people do indeed not understand homosexuality and so on. My grand dad won't even speak to me because of how I am. I don't think this is an excuse though, I'm sure he's not a bad person, before I came out about it I remember him as a nice guy, I still do. I just haven't seen him in years and years because he can't face me. Not understanding someones sexuality isn't really what's in question, it's accepting it, accepting people living their lives like they need to.

As I said, you cannot change certain details about you. You are who you are, unfortunately. Be it curly hair, sexuality, skin color, height or voice, your stuck with it (in some cases drastic meassures may be taken, that is true), and someone giving you crap about something you can't change makes them bad people in my opinion. Of course they can be good people, and if your grand dad could accept someone in your family being gay thats all anyone could ask for, his understanding isn't required.

Nothing hurts more than when a person close to you offends you, especially on something you cannot help. It's also really hurtful when someone you don't know does it, though not anywhere near as bad. I can't know if you've had ye olde bully in your life, but you might now it's not fun.

I'm sorry about your grandfather. Some people are like that. While most people I know don't understand it, I doubt there are many that have a problem with it. I think there are people that don't understand or accept such things, but can live with it. At least, as long as their own child or grandchild isn't one of those people, in this case gay, that they don't understand. It's sad, but there's nothing you can do about some things. Much like he can't force you to change, you can't force him to, either. I'm sorry, but maybe one day he will accept you. If not, it's not your fault.

I'll admit that I do hear the occasional gay joke, but they are rare. Like once in 3 or 4 months. If that. Honestly, I don't think that many people care about homosexuality. Really, just the loudest voices dominating the debate.

Let me be clear that I have no problem with gay people. I actually support gay marriage. If only so that two people, who are living together in a committed relationship and for all intents and purposes are married, will have the same rights and protections as straight couples.

And I agree that there are some things that you can't change (and why should you?) and it is really sad when people can't accept you for those "faults" and make fun of and insult you for them. I'm pretty sure most people on this site can understand that pain. Bigoted people are not necessarily bad, just ignorant. People fear what they don't understand. It's sad and pathetic, but you shouldn't hate them for this. If anything, you should pity them and disassociate yourself with such people.

Anyway, I wish you well. May your future be a happy and fortunate one filled with good times, good friends, and good memories.

 

[Jonabob87]

Surely when we're talking about a religious ceremony such as marriage, a religious leg is more than enough to stand on? How can you talk about your right to freedom of expression but the church can't express theirs?

I'm not talking about Marriage as a religious institution. I'm talking about civil, government sanctioned marriage. What reason can you cite for not allowing us to be legally binded by the government? A supposedly non-religious entity.

Name one good reason that does not relate back to religion or morality.

There's no reason to stop government sanctioned same sex marriage other than the likelihood of that moving on to further same-sex religious marriage bullying. Legalistic marriage = I don't care.

A while ago a gay rights group in California put forward an attempt to abolish marriage in the state of California, almost as a sort of childish "Well if we cant have it neither should you." I actually thought it was quite a good idea, as people could still be married by the church, as for religious people the important bit as that it's done in the sight of God. It would also stop people being married for financial benefits...

 

[firemark]

Oh hi, I'd just like to point out that you are wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

Sure let's trust wikipedia, a site that you could edit over the original Greek. Also, I pointed out that the definition supported by wikipedia is the one I said that society uses. I said it was a wrong translation therefore the wrong definition. You assume that everything must be as society dictates. I assume that words have inherent meanings that should not be ignored.