Hope you weren't too excited about that Elder Scrolls MMO

[Mycroft Holmes]

Darkfall was 3rd person, not first person.

Ever hear of Planetside? The MMO that was hugely successful and actually a First-person, real-time combat game? Pro tip, not every game has to be a carbon copy. Darkfall failed because it was a very small production team working on a project that was way to ambitious for their funding. Planetside succeeded because it did something different and it did it well.

Planetfall is a MMOFPS not a MMORPG, they have way different gameplay.

FPS=/=RPGs, just becuase you slap a MMO in front of them doesnt mean one's gameplay work s with the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetfall

Looks singleplayer to me bro.

And RPG is a bs term. Anything can be an RPG if it wants to, and puts enough effort into roleplaying aspects of the game. Mechanics are a completely separate issue detached from the RPG genre. And if it works for a MMOFPS, it can easily work for an MMORPG.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1) No, you really wouldn't. The only big thing that would really need to be changed in the core mechanics is the introduction of a party and loot system. Beyond that, it would be fairly minor tweaks to all of it (with the biggest probably being the crafting system). Some other changes would be different drop rates for things, per-character vendor gold values, and a removal of the rest/sleep mechanics that aren't really used anyway.

Edit: You'd also have to remove the fast travel mechanic, forgot about that since I never used it. And nerf the leveling system as I mentioned so that players can't max everything in under 200 hours as they can now, the best way to do so is to make skills decay as they aren't used, with an XP penalty for that skill as it starts losing levels to make it harder to regain them, to force players to focus on their core skills.

2) Have you ever played an MMO with player cities? You don't need to instance them anywhere. Let a group (let's call it a guild for simplicity's sake) claim some land, the size of which being dependent on how many people in the group, then give a reasonable amount of space for it. The only instancing involved would be for the player housing once the guild gets above a certain size and it's no longer feasible for everyone to have their own distinct plot (and this is good because it discourages massive hoard guilds).

You really haven't played many sandbox MMOs before have you?

I have played several sandbox MMO's

You would pretty much have to rework the entirety of Skyrim's mechanics back to Morrowind's and scrap the perk system in its entirety to get it to work, along with the other changes you talked about. Skyrim's system is so unbalanced in a MMO setting that it would take so much more beyond a few simple tweaks to get it work.

Also Fast travel is in ESO, so no you dont need to remove it, though it is wayshrine based, like Guild Wars 2.

Skill decay? are you serious? that is literally one of the most fucking stupid ideas I have ever heard of ever. I really cant tell if you are being serious anymore.
.
.
I have played MMOs with player cities, they either
A. Become so massive eyesore that everyone complains about them
B. Are super limited in size and scope that they become meaningless.

I have to ask have YOU played MMOs with player cities before?

I really don't know. Remember in Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind when you had an NPC ally who would constantly get in your way and block enemies? Imagine 4-5 more people in that same space. And since it's first person, no one knows where anyone else is in relation to themselves. So theres no way to know if you're blocking a fireball, or an axe strike. Now try typing out text to tell someone something while fighting. Like trying to warn someone of a trap, or oncoming enemies (since they couldn't see behind them due to it being first person.)


I just don't think that directly porting Elderscrolls gameplay would ever work in a multiplayer setting, the way people are wanting it to work.

Ohh godz, someone with some brain left.

 

[renegade7]

Well, I was excited for an MMO with normal TES gameplay...but I suppose that's not going to happen.

Farewell TES, it's been a good run...

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well, I was excited for an MMO with normal TES gameplay...but I suppose that's not going to happen.

Farewell TES, it's been a good run...

Like the fate of a MMO not being made by Bethesda is going to affect the fate of the SP series made by Bethesda...?

SSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE

 

[Dudeman325]

Wait, people actually thought it would be something else? What world do you live in where MMORPGs are anything but hotbar buttons with cooldowns?

 

[Agayek]

I really don't know. Remember in Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind when you had an NPC ally who would constantly get in your way and block enemies? Imagine 4-5 more people in that same space. And since it's first person, no one knows where anyone else is in relation to themselves. So theres no way to know if you're blocking a fireball, or an axe strike. Now try typing out text to tell someone something while fighting. Like trying to warn someone of a trap, or oncoming enemies (since they couldn't see behind them due to it being first person.)

I just don't think that directly porting Elderscrolls gameplay would ever work in a multiplayer setting, the way people are wanting it to work.

I will refer you to TERA. They do real time combat, with pathing blocking, and succeed phenomenally. There is a valid point about the perspective, but that's resolved easily by moving to the third person camera that's default in Skyrim. I would argue however that the perspective limitation is a good thing and would be a good thing to lock players in first person. It forces players to cooperate their group and actually have someone watching their back as it were.

As for the typing, there's two solutions to that: 1) Don't be retarded and try to type while trying to do something else, and 2) include VOIP in the game (or just use Steamworks') so that nobody has to type.

That said, the dungeons and other fighting areas would almost certainly have to be expanded so that more than one person at a time could get through a doorway and the like. It would be a bit silly otherwise. Path blocking is great, but removing someone's ability to go around (even if it's just by jumping over them) an obstacle with the architecture is a bad move.

 

[jpoon]

Yeah, I honestly didn't expect to be impressed by this game for one because there are soooo very many of it's kind out and about now. I'll keep an eye on it just but I do not expect to play it.

 

[Andrewtheeviscerator]

I think Vivec is in the game.

but its so far in the past none of the character we met in any of the TES games, beyond vivec, would be in it.

Actually Mannimarco also known as The King of Worms will be one of the primary antagonists in the game, and he was in both Oblivion and Daggerfall. Also I suspect many of the Daedric Princes to appear in the game also.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I was never excited about it to begin with and had no intention of buying it. This is mostly why. MMOs suck, they all suck, and always will suck. The main mechanic of an MMO is sucking. This is just from my perspective from what I look for from a game, obviously and not everyone will agree but I've played enough MMOs to know that they ALWAYS suck, no matter what claims they make to the contrary.

Planetside would like to have a word with you.

Oh, and Eve online.





OT: Still have somewhat of an interest in the game, if it turns out to be exactly like WoW however, I'll lose interest.

I mean, after all, even Age of Conan which has somewhat of a real time combat still has abilities that cool down.

I am generalizing like crazy. I am mostly referring to the typical MMO that is very WoWlike. I have played Planetside and while it definitely had its all flaws, it was pretty fun. I also had a lot of fun with City of Heroes before it went F2P.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Your basically turning the game into a MMO that's only tuned for the hardcore, which wouldn't sell.

furthermore not everyone has a mic or should be expect to to be able to play the game well.

The fact that you even suggest that being locked into first person would be even remotely good i a frightening thought.

Actually Mannimarco also known as The King of Worms will be one of the primary antagonists in the game, and he was in both Oblivion and Daggerfall. Also I suspect many of the Daedric Princes to appear in the game also.

I meant human characters.

Mannimacro is part god, who are obviously going to be there.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

2) Have you ever played an MMO with player cities? You don't need to instance them anywhere. Let a group (let's call it a guild for simplicity's sake) claim some land, the size of which being dependent on how many people in the group, then give a reasonable amount of space for it. The only instancing involved would be for the player housing once the guild gets above a certain size and it's no longer feasible for everyone to have their own distinct plot (and this is good because it discourages massive hoard guilds).

You really haven't played many sandbox MMOs before have you?

Have YOU? Which ones did you play? Darkfall, with its tiny population? Did you ever see what became of Ultima Online after player housing went in? Boy that was a treat. The entire fucking countryside looked like New Jersey with row houses on every free scrap of land.

There's extremely good reason to fear the consequences of non-instanced player housing in a game with an Elder-Scrolls level fan base. I've played MMO suburbia already, I'm in no rush to play it again.

As for Skyrim making a good foundation for a MMO, I'm going to have to agree that it wouldn't. Yes, it's a sandbox, but so is Sim City. Not all sandboxes are the same, and single player CRPGs and MMORPGs are distinct genres with different game play conventions. You could borrow SOME ELEMENTS from Skyrim, but you couldn't tweak 1-2 things and have a working MMO. It would be *awful*.

 

[Charli]

Tch Doh. I'm an avid WoW player still but I don't WANT another like it Bethesda! Do something that takes all the good stuff and evolves it 10-fold. That's what we're all waiting for. Not another shinier clone. There needs to be some innovation and you've got the sold foot hold in the fantasy genre to pull it off.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Have YOU? Which ones did you play? Darkfall, with its tiny population? Did you ever see what became of Ultima Online after player housing went in? Boy that was a treat. The entire fucking countryside looked like New Jersey with row houses on every free scrap of land.

There's extremely good reason to fear the consequences of non-instanced player housing in a game with an Elder-Scrolls level fan base. I've played MMO suburbia already, I'm in no rush to play it again.

As for Skyrim making a good foundation for a MMO, I'm going to have to agree that it wouldn't. Yes, it's a sandbox, but so is Sim City. Not all sandboxes are the same, and single player CRPGs and MMORPGs are distinct genres with different game play conventions. You could borrow SOME ELEMENTS from Skyrim, but you couldn't tweak 1-2 things and have a working MMO. It would be *awful*.

For your overwhelming display of reason and logic here is a cookie

 

[Death916]

"players have a small standard MMO hotbar on which they slot a handful of skills freely outside combat. The limitation on the number of skills available at one time does away with the concept of skill "rotations" that much of the class design of a MMO like World of Warcaft is built on. "now every ability can be awesome," says lead gameplayer designer Nick Konkle. "if you have 20 abilities, at some point I can't let every one be a stun. We can just make ever ability really cool, and how you build your "hand" in advance is what defines you""

hand? sounds like 3-7 abilities st the ready max. Seems to me like battles might end up like league of legends, have good build/ pop your combo dodge wait for CD, repeat.

Captcha: Hooray Henry who's Henry and what'd he do to receive praise

 

[BloatedGuppy]

For your overwhelming display of reason and logic here is a cookie

Look at the size of that thing!

Now I have diabetes. Great!

 

[Agayek]

I have played several sandbox MMO's

You would pretty much have to rework the entirety of Skyrim's mechanics back to Morrowind's and scrap the perk system in its entirety to get it to work, along with the other changes you talked about. Skyrim's system is so unbalanced in a MMO setting that it would take so much more beyond a few simple tweaks to get it work.

Why would you have to scrap the perk system? Level skills, get perk point, upgrade skill with perk. It would require balancing, I will definitely give you that, but the core mechanic of it is perfectly sound.

Also Fast travel is in ESO, so no you dont need to remove it, though it is wayshrine based, like Guild Wars 2.

I was talking about fast travel like "be anywhere, open map, click destination, teleport there". That will have to leave. Fast travel from fixed points however is quite a good thing. I'd probably just use the carriages Skyrim had and use that as the fast travel system.

Skill decay? are you serious? that is literally one of the most fucking stupid ideas I have ever heard of ever. I really cant tell if you are being serious anymore.

I'm definitely serious. Having skill decay, with a penalty, forces players to specialize in a core set of skills. That way you won't have master enchacksmists who can swing a 2h mace like the fist of an angry god. Specialization prevents any one individual from breaking the game in its entirety. It's a derivation of the class system, given a sandbox facelift. It allows players to do anything and everything they want, but it also requires focusing on a core set of skills to the detriment of others. Having players able to do literally everything in the game is one of the biggest problems with most sandbox MMOs.

I have played MMOs with player cities, they either
A. Become so massive eyesore that everyone complains about them
B. Are super limited in size and scope that they become meaningless.

I have to ask have YOU played MMOs with player cities before?

Yes, and I've seen it work well, and I've seen it work poorly. What a city looks like is irrelevant. It's a sandbox after all, players are supposed to be able to make their territory look like whatever they want. If it offends your aesthetic sensibilities, then leave their territory.

Personally, I'd place a limit on player cities to be somewhere around 1/2-2/3 the size of Whiterun. That seems reasonable for the largest player cities out there. Any larger than that and there would be penalties enacted on the group that founded the city, starting with restricting player housing and instancing it. This would discourage groups (and cities by extension) from getting too large but still retaining the amount of flexibility and customization they should have.

 

[SajuukKhar]

hand? sounds like 3-7 abilities st the ready max. Seems to me like battles might end up like league of legends, have good build/ pop your combo dodge wait for CD, repeat.

Captcha: Hooray Henry who's Henry and what'd he do to receive praise

Sounds like guild wars 1 and guild wars 2 were you only had 8(GW1), or 10(GW2) skills with you at one time

I was talking about fast travel like "be anywhere, open map, click destination, teleport there". That will have to leave. Fast travel from fixed points however is quite a good thing. I'd probably just use the carriages Skyrim had and use that as the fast travel system.

Actually GW2 work on "you can travel from anywhere to a wayshrine". which is how I would think the ES one works also.

So it is a "travel from anywhere to any one of these fixed points" system.

Yes, and I've seen it work well, and I've seen it work poorly. What a city looks like is irrelevant. It's a sandbox after all, players are supposed to be able to make their territory look like whatever they want. If it offends your aesthetic sensibilities, then leave their territory.

Name one game that did it well.

as has been pointed out before the only ones that have done it eaither
A. became massive sprawling doom cities like Ultima
B. had increadibly small populations so it never became a problem.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm definitely serious. Having skill decay, with a penalty, forces players to specialize in a core set of skills. That way you won't have master enchacksmists who can swing a 2h mace like the fist of an angry god. Specialization prevents any one individual from breaking the game in its entirety. It's a derivation of the class system, given a sandbox facelift. It allows players to do anything and everything they want, but it also requires focusing on a core set of skills to the detriment of others. Having players able to do literally everything in the game is one of the biggest problems with most sandbox MMOs.

Skill decay requires the ability to lock the skill once you get it where you want it. Otherwise you have a system where you cook a bun and you're suddenly not a Grandmaster Swordsman any more, and I think we can all agree that's a rubbish system.

 

[Vrach]

At first I was intrigued because I was curious about the idea of making a First-person, real-time combat game into an MMO.

Now though? Interest level: 0.

^This.

Don't get me wrong, it COULD make for a good MMO if it plays it cards right. I don't utterly hate the MMO way of doing things (it's not ideal, but there are upsides to the genre as well) and the Elder Scrolls universe certainly has a fantastic lore to base an MMO on. Thing is, it'd have to be a brilliant MMO and have all the TES lore and stuff going for it to make it worthwhile and that is by no means a small task.

I would much rather see them try a real TES MMO though. Yes, it's hard, but it's far from impossible and in my opinion, they'd have a much better chance of creating something worthwhile trying something new instead of trying to perfect what we already have. People think copying old ideas is easy, it might well be, but copying them right and making a copied product worthwhile (more so than what it was copied from) is just as hard as making something new.

Real question though, who's making this? Is it Bethesda themselves? Cause all I'm seeing there is ZeniMax and I'm guessing Bethesda's got its hands full anyway with the real TES franchise and possibly the Fallout one. If it's not Bethesda making it (developing, not just publishing), my interest isn't just low, it's an absolute zero.