How comes gamers are "entitled" when they don't get what they expect from a product?

[projectpinkx]

It's not that the ending to ME3 wasn't what we wanted, the problem was IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY FREAKING SENSE and was an insult to the intelligence of every consumer that's supported Bioware and the ME franchise over the last five years. Personally, I wish Bioware would just come out and say "No, we're not fixing the ending to Mass Effect 3." so I could just uninstall the damn game, erase the franchise from my memory and not buy anything that says Bioware on it from this day forward. I don't even have the time to be playing any freakin' game series for 130+ hours, but I did. The ending was a travesty.

If you found the ending acceptable you're an intellectual lightweight and your standards are too damned low.

 

[Realitycrash]

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

Because there is a difference from "what is expected" and "how something, per definition, works".
A dishwasher isn't "expected" to wash dishes well, it is what it does, how it works. If it does not do it, it does not work.
A game is either "expected" or "not expected" to be good, and can be either. No matter what, it is still a game, it still "works".

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Gamers are one of the few groups of consumers that think they have the right to a product before they buy it. If you buy a car, you don't expect all the extras even if they are completed and ready to be installed the moment you buy the car. You don't expect cereals to come with the milk. You don't expect light speed fast internet if you paid for the slow ass budget version.

A game is a product, a company makes it, and sets a price. You have no obligation to buy the game if you think the price outweighs the fun you'll have with the game. But you also don't deserve the game just because you are a fan.

And if a game sells like butter in Norway despite costing an extra 10 bucks for the "full experience" then it obviously wasn't too much to ask was it? Supply and demand. Put your money where your mouth is.

EA is a company, it will try to maximise profits. I'm sure you approve of far worse business methods than sneaking in extra content in a game by simply shopping for cheap clothes.

 

[zefiris]

A game is a product, a company makes it, and sets a price. You have no obligation to buy the game if you think the price outweighs the fun you'll have with the game. But you also don't deserve the game just because you are a fan.

Then why are people like you creating a giant storm of fanboy rage whenever people dare to do exactly this and *not* buy a game and instead play games not having all that trouble?

Seriously, that makes no sense.

 

[Abedeus]

I have always thought of it as this:

Gaming is a Hobby, albeit an expensive one.

You don't have the money for this hobby? Get a new one.

Rude, crude, but it gets the point across.

Ah, the good old "You are poor, so shut up." argument.

Worth nothing, but you can still use it when you have nothing to add to discussion.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Games should feel entitled to good games. Do you know why? Because video games are one of the few products that you can't return if you're not satisfied.
Don't like a movie? Walk out and get your money back.
Don't like your meal? Complain and get your money back.
Don't like your car? Furniture? T-Shirt? You can get your money back.
Don't like a video game? Sell it for 5 bucks.
And that is why we're entitled to a product we will be completely happy with. Until game companies allow you to return products that you are not satisfied with, we should feel entitled to a perfect product.

While I see where you're coming from, I think it's also important to consider that very few products really get covered as well as videogames do either. There are so many previews, videos, reviews, forums, etc., etc. for games that it's often very easy to get a good idea of the sort of product you're getting before you get it. This is even more true if you don't succumb to the need to have the game on day one.

Heck, for a large number of the games released these days you can actually just flip over to Youtube and watch someone else play through the entire game without spending a dime yourself if you're unsure. Outside of maybe music, there isn't any other industry I can think of that does the same thing.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Games should feel entitled to good games. Do you know why? Because video games are one of the few products that you can't return if you're not satisfied.
Don't like a movie? Walk out and get your money back.
Don't like your meal? Complain and get your money back.
Don't like your car? Furniture? T-Shirt? You can get your money back.
Don't like a video game? Sell it for 5 bucks.
And that is why we're entitled to a product we will be completely happy with. Until game companies allow you to return products that you are not satisfied with, we should feel entitled to a perfect product.

While I see where you're coming from, I think it's also important to consider that very few products really get covered as well as videogames do either. There are so many previews, videos, reviews, forums, etc., etc. for games that it's often very easy to get a good idea of the sort of product you're getting before you get it. This is even more true if you don't succumb to the need to have the game on day one.

Heck, for a large number of the games released these days you can actually just flip over to Youtube and watch someone else play through the entire game without spending a dime yourself if you're unsure. Outside of maybe music, there isn't any other industry I can think of that does the same thing.

You can finish an entire meal, watch most of a movie, drive a car, heck most furniture places have up to a 90 day return policy. You can get hands on with so many more things than games and still return them if you don't like them. As well, let's put this out as an example, ME2 was sold on the strength of ME. ME2 sucked big hairy goa... anyways I want my money back. But I can't have my money back even though it's a clear case of false advertising and paid off reviewers saying good things because... well they've been paid. Yes I think i've hit the nail on the head as to why gamers should feel entitled. Devs should offer refunds on bad games or be open to fixing them (and not just bug fixes, though ME2 and 3 need a ton of those).

 

[boag]

just going to add 1 thing to this discussion, when using the ME3 example, The 2.99 I-whatever app is supposedly going to explain what exactly they cut out of the game.

You can either wait for the info of the app to be disclosed or pay the 2.99, but if the information that has already been circling about is correct(and most leaks have been correct so far), they have actually excised the ending of the game to create controversy around their product.

Does this mean they actually cut out the ending of the game to sell it as DLC? it is uncertain at this time but a lot of leaked information seems to point more and more towards yes.

See this thread if you want to learn more on the matter.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.354425-Bioware-allows-the-release-of-The-Final-Hours-of-Mass-Effect-3-a-tell-all-app-for-2-99-WTF?page=4#14099816

 

[josemlopes]

Spoiler

Title says it all, why do people complain about gamers being so entitled?

If I buy a dishwasher, and it doesn't wash dishes correctly, or I have to buy $10 add on so that I can wash forks with it, and I said "NO THESE THINGS SHOULD BE STANDARD!", would that make me entitled? I don't think so, so why is it the case with games?

Why are gamers specifically targeted as being entitled?

because your analogy blows.

Dlc never takes a core part out of the game.

A better example would be having to pay to unlock extra space in your dishwasher.

It does everything it needs to, but you can have more of it if you pay for more.

As much as people like to ***** and moan most dlc isn't that bad.

Even your analogy is incorrect. The DLC squadmate was already in the distribution disc. A lot of people have proven this by editing config files.

So the more appropriate analogy would be: paying to unlock extra space that's definitely already in the dishwasher, and that you can probably unlock yourself if you knew what you were doing.

But even though the dishwasher has the locked space there, when you buy it you know that you are not paying for the whole thing, you are just paying for the space that it is available to you so if you think that the price of that specific available space (not the whole dishwasher) is too high then dont buy it.

Shit, we really need to drop the dishwasher analogy.

 

[loudestmute]

Permission to feel smug when the $40 "Complete Edition" releases next year?

In all fairness, the main thing that concerns me about DLC-heavy games is how they're going to play when the servers get shut down. When the content is no longer available for purchase, how much will you be losing? In the case of the Soulcalibur series, you might lose a good choice of create-a-fighter gear, but your experience will be relatively nonplussed. For games like Red Dead Redemption and L.A. Noire, you'll be missing about 10-30 hours if you pick up the game after your console manufacturer has moved on to only supporting the "next big thing". Game of the Year/Complete editions will be available, yes, but they were already on a limited production run, and I'm not sure publishers are making enough of a profit from what is essentially a second printing of a product they've already released to continue this trend in the future. Especially troubling for 360 users, where the revised and extended editions prefer to include the "Big Friggin' DLC Voucher Code" rather than an extra disc. Useful now, but useless in the secondary market of the near-future.

...Am I the only one concerned about this?

 

[Scarim Coral]

I have been thinking about this too lately due to the whole fisaco with ME 3 ending.
I assume it has to do with the fact it's somewhat easier to produce/ fix a game data due to DLC, patch and Steam.
Ok granted it's still hard but what I mean is pulling the whole entitlement stunt was impossible during the SNES, PS1 well before Xbox 360, PS3 and Steam. Back then the game information can only be store inside the disc/ cartridge and memory card.
Now that the game information can be alter/ patch via DLC or downloads people think it can be easy to fix beacuse of that fact.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Because gamers have no rights. They are nothing but anthropomorphic meat bags, filled with nickles, pennys, denars, dollars and pounds fucking sterling. If a gamer dares to talk about consumer rights and what they deserve in a product they are already buying at incredibly inflated prices then clearly they didn't read the rules and need to be put in their place.


How dare you want your moneys worth! Didn't you know the Executive for EA needs his car detailed? Don't be so selfish.

Just a friednly hint to our developing overlords. The excuse for DayOne DLC, or any DLC is that it doesn't detract from the main game experience, right? Well the sidequests technically are not part of the main story so go ahead and cut all that out. Any bonus material should naturally be sold off for extra also.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

A game is a product, a company makes it, and sets a price. You have no obligation to buy the game if you think the price outweighs the fun you'll have with the game. But you also don't deserve the game just because you are a fan.

Then why are people like you creating a giant storm of fanboy rage whenever people dare to do exactly this and *not* buy a game and instead play games not having all that trouble?

Seriously, that makes no sense.

To quote Benjamin Franklin, lolwut? Where have I ever expressed rage at anyone not buying a game? Don't buy products that you think are too expensive for the enjoyment you get was exactly my point.

If anyone is not making sense, it's you.

 

[endtherapture]

Gamers are considered "entitled" because they behave so. They use the wrong ways to show their position towards the content of a product and this way is really gamer exclusive:

They buy OR consume it anyway and whine like butthurt children.

In other branches: If I think a product is incomplete or false advertised (during the gathering of informations before purchase) then I simply don't buy it. I don't spend my money on it or try to steal it (yes, piracy is not stealing).

How behave gamer? They pirate the shit out of games (disregarding the platform), defend piracy, whine about "shitty endings", review bomb games everywhere but go on and buy the games anyway or at least play them. What does it show to the industry: Our consumers are entitled dickheads who want everything for free.

Grow a pair of symbolic, courage balls AND DON'T BUY THE GAMES YOU THINK ARE NOT WORTH YOUR MONEY FOR WHATEVER REASON! Vote with your wallet and be a responsible consumer / customer.

How can I vote with my wallet if I've already bought the game?

I've been a big enough person to buy the game legally and have faith in the publisher enough to risk money on the game.

Then if the game is shit and I don't like it, how can I show my displeasure? I certainly can't return the game can I?

So how do gamers show their opinion? They have to review bomb games to show their displeasure. It's the only way because we can't return games if we don't like them.

 

[Vegosiux]

Because gamers have no rights. They are nothing but anthropomorphic meat bags, filled with nickles, pennys, denars, dollars and pounds fucking sterling. If a gamer dares to talk about consumer rights and what they deserve in a product they are already buying at incredibly inflated prices then clearly they didn't read the rules and need to be put in their place.

Well, I never! You forgot euros, you little rascal, you.

I've been a big enough person to buy the game legally and have faith in the publisher enough to risk money on the game.

Didn't you know? If you are a big enough person then you are morally and legally forbidden from thinking the game is anything but 100% perfection.

 

[Burst6]

The game still functions without dlc. You aren't entitled to anything more. EA/bioware have the right to make whatever dlc for whatever price. It's like if you buy an album and for 50 cents you can unlock an extra song.

Of course they have the right to.


Just like we have the right to ***** about it because we don't like what they're doing.

It's not enough for a game to function, it has to be good. Video Games are a form of art, they can't just function.

And that album analogy is exactly why we're complaining. Was that extra song recorded along with the other songs and cut out so they could make an extra 50c?

Are you paying more money for the same amount of content another company can give you? Hell are you paying more for the same amount of content the company you just bought the disk from sold you a few years ago?

EA has a history of greedy business practices, i don't trust them not to pull that. Sure we can't force them to do anything, but in the end they need us. If we don't like what they're doing we complain and devalue their product.

 

[Soxafloppin]

If a diswasher doesnt wash dishes properly, its a shit dishwasher.

If a game wasnt what you expected, you should have googled it.

 

[Petromir]

There are very few cases in my experience where the answer to the question would the game be worth what I paid for it if I didn't know about any DLC has been anything other than yes.

The ME3 Prothean is a case in point. The issues with ME3 are its ending, but even with that it's still worth the price of admission. More so than most games I've picked up. The prothean is a mere blip on the whole thing.

Tons of things are sold as extras across many industries and often they are things far more nessary for full use of the product than the sliver of story and content that made up the Prothean.

Most car companies sell extras like nothing on earth and plenty of them relate to safety or similar.