If someone is a post-op transsexual, are they obligated to tell the person they are pursuing/dating?

[GigaHz]

Disagree that it has the same moral implications. STDs are harmful.

Answer my original question, just for the fun of it.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Because it's evident unless the surgery was particularly bad. Gender identity has nothing to do with their history.

People who a transsexual might want to have sex with/date might disagree, and they have a right to make that choice.

Sure they can disagree. But since they're factually incorrect and your argument was that they don't know when they actually do, that's their problem. They want to know something more that simply isn't any of their business until possibly later.

I disagree, if a person thinks your a women, then you should be upfront with them before any sex or steps towards a relationship is started. Again people should have the right to know if the person they might sleep with is a transsexual or if the person they might date is a transsexual.

No, they don't have a right to know anymore than they have a right to know your attitude on transsexuals the second you meet them. Anything else is simply you being one sided.

yes they do, they have a right do decide whether or not they want to have sex with a transsexual/date a transsexual. The transsexual should not be the only one that gets to make that decision.

Nope. They only have a right to as much information based on their preferences as they're forced to dole out based on the preferences of others. Otherwise that's just a self-centered argument.

The only self centered argument is that in favor of transsexuals misleading someone so that only the transsexual gets to make a choice. To disregard the other persons feelings is incredibility self centered.

How is it self-centered for me to argue for someone else? What a bizarre claim. At least I'd say that were it coming from most people.

But nope, you're disregarding the feelings of transsexuals by not telling them upfront that you're against them. You're not letting them make the choice.

If a transsexual asked, I would tell them upfront that I don't want to have sex with transsexuals or date them. I wouldn't beat around the bush about it.

 

[GigaHz]

Disagree that it has the same moral implications. STDs are harmful.

Answer my original question, just for the fun of it.

Yes because people should know if their health might be harmed due to an STD.

Ok, here's where I draw parallels.

I do not desire a transexual, nor do I desire an STD.

I am not in the control group that determines whether or not I get presented with one. That control lies solely with the transexual and the person with the STD.

There is a chance that I could hook up with a convincing transexual due to a misconception. There is also a chance that I may acquire an STD even if I use protection. Both are not desirable outcomes.

Hell, even using your suggestion of flat out asking them from before doesn't change a thing if the transexual lies. The bottom line is, my actions hold little sway in the final outcome.

It is a moral implication because in both scenarios, there is a chance you can get away with it, whether through ignorance by the other party or just plain luck.

It's a little more grey for transexuals of course, because they have more emotional baggage than someone walking around with an STD. Still, they have some responsibility in the pain they may unintentionally cause others.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Okay so go ahead and ask them instead of expecting to be informed. Otherwise it's a double standard.

I would if I went to a place where there are a lot of transsexuals(Thailand comes to mind but I don't know how accurate that is), otherwise if I have made it clear that I think the person is a women, and not a mtf, the transsexual should tell me upfront. I shouldn't have to ask every single women I meet if their a mtf.

 

[GigaHz]

Your desires have 0 to do with why I consider an STD problematic. I said because it was harmful, not because you didn't want one. Parallel fails right there. Unless you can show that there is harmful to your health to date a transsexual your parallel does not work. You're trying to shoehorn something in that doesn't fit.

As for them lying, if they lie and continue to date you after they know what you care about then I'd take issue.

As for the bottom line, the bottom line is that it's not harmful like an STD. Your lack of control is irrelevant.

You don't think psychology has an affect on your overall health?

You don't think that someone would develop deep psychological issues knowing that they slept with a former man against their knowledge?

As I said before, it is not the same by any means. That does not make my scenario any less relevant.

 

[idodo35]

i think he isnt obligated but a relationship when you dont tell your partner something so important in your past could be problamatic...
also my captcha asked me to describe BBC in a word... seriously im not trying to make a snarky joke its exactly what it asks me...

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Okay so go ahead and ask them instead of expecting to be informed. Otherwise it's a double standard.

I would if I went to a place where there are a lot of transsexuals(Thailand comes to mind but I don't know how accurate that is), otherwise if I have made it clear that I think the person is a women, and not a mtf, the transsexual should tell me upfront. I shouldn't have to ask every single women I meet if their a mtf.

How the hell do you make it clear you don't think they're a woman, not a woman? Mtf = woman. Sorry if you disagree, not here to cater to your ignorance.

But let's say I ignore you flouting your ignorance for a while. Nothing you do short of stating your stance on transsexuals will make it clear that you deludedly think they're not women.

And they shouldn't have to tell you if you don't ask anymore than you have to say what you think of transsexuals when unasked. Anything else is a double standard. But you don't seem to care if a double standard is in your favor.

If I thought they were a mtf, I would ask before I did anything. However if I don't give the impression that I know they are a mtf, the transsexual should tell me before anything happens.

 

[GigaHz]

Your scenario is completely irrelevant because STDs do demonstrable harm. Now if you can prove sleeping with a transsexual does demonstrable harm you could have a case. You didn't, you're pulling things out of thin air. You've failed to show any kind of psychological harm and failed to show that it is likely to occur to anyone who doesn't have some kind of mental issue like a phobia.

I don't think anyone who doesn't have a psychological issue would suffer any serious impact on their mental health. If you want to claim they would, prove it. Otherwise it's just a load of hogwash.

These things shouldn't have to be spelled out for you. It is a common assumption that anyone forced to sleep outside of their sexual preference would develop some kind of an issue with it. I know if I was in that situation, I would probably not want to speak to anything resembling a woman for a long time, let alone a man, out of fear that I may get deceived. You do not simply "Walk it off" after sleeping with a gender you don't want to.

I'm pretty sure the average straight male would feel this way in a similar situation, being that these sorts of topics do get discussed (albeit jokingly) around friends.

Other then that, I really don't know how to prove this to you. What do you propose I do? Try it out for myself and create a journal? This is a conclusion that you should have came to yourself based on common knowledge. If you won't at least entertain the idea that there is something morally wrong with deceiving someone to fulfill a selfish desire, that's your business. I just hope I don't run into a transexual with your approach on this situation, as I will be the one dealing with the consequences, not them.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Okay so go ahead and ask them instead of expecting to be informed. Otherwise it's a double standard.

I would if I went to a place where there are a lot of transsexuals(Thailand comes to mind but I don't know how accurate that is), otherwise if I have made it clear that I think the person is a women, and not a mtf, the transsexual should tell me upfront. I shouldn't have to ask every single women I meet if their a mtf.

How the hell do you make it clear you don't think they're a woman, not a woman? Mtf = woman. Sorry if you disagree, not here to cater to your ignorance.

But let's say I ignore you flouting your ignorance for a while. Nothing you do short of stating your stance on transsexuals will make it clear that you deludedly think they're not women.

And they shouldn't have to tell you if you don't ask anymore than you have to say what you think of transsexuals when unasked. Anything else is a double standard. But you don't seem to care if a double standard is in your favor.

If I thought they were a mtf, I would ask before I did anything. However if I don't give the impression that I know they are a mtf, the transsexual should tell me before anything happens.

Well then you better tell them that. Surprisingly enough transsexuals don't get mind reading powers so they can cater to your whims. They would hardly know that if you thought they were an mtf you would ask before they did anything. As such they have no reason to know that you make a deluded distinction.

The transsexual should tell you nothing unless you went and told them you'd care. If they don't seem to know you'd care then clearly you're obliged to tell them.

I repeat, if I don't know that they are a mtf, then they should tell me. Its fare to say that a great number of people would care if they had sex/dated a transsexual.

 

[The Gnome King]

You do not simply "Walk it off" after sleeping with a gender you don't want to.

I concur. I'm a bisexual man who has willingly had sex with men and women; but I would feel deceived and angry if I found out a person was a post-op transsexual during a sexual encounter instead of BEFORE the act.

I am an activist for LGBT people and work with transsexuals; most transsexuals I know wouldn't conceive of lying to a partner about their status when things start to "get serious" - they tell people up front because they want to avoid problems down the road. *Most* people care what gender a person is before they sleep with him or her, period. If a person had both sets of genitalia I'd want to know that too before I slept with them and it just kinda "came up" in bed, you know?

This seems like such a ridiculous question. Ask most transsexual men or women how they feel and they will flat out say while it's uncomfortable to talk about sometimes, in long-term relationships (or even one-night stands if you want to avoid REALLY uncomfortable encounters) - it's best to be honest. Even with the best cosmetic surgery, hormone treatment, etc., it's not exactly very difficult to tell if somebody has had gender reassignment surgery when exposed to the "light of day" so to speak, and since most of us with partners get to know one another's genital rather... um, intimately - I'd say being up front about things just makes sense.

Again I mean, there's no "legal obligation" here to tell somebody you're a MTF transsexual but on God's Green Earth why wouldn't you want to disclose this information before it becomes an issue?