i'm sorry, but that's childporn

[Allan53]

I seem to remember the classification board here in Australia who wanted to ban images of women with breasts smaller than a certain size [http://www.inquisitr.com/59472/millions-of-extra-sites-to-be-censorsed-as-australian-gov-bans-small-breasts-female-ejaculation/], on the basis that it could be considered exciting to those with pedophilic urges.

Never really heard what happened at the end of that, actually...

Note, link above is NOT to a primary source, so it could easily be just political manuvering

 

[Gigano]

You came in, made no contribution to the discussion

I've been active in the discussion throughout the thread, actually.

I stand by the remarks you're objecting to without apology, and don't find your reading of the exchange to be competent. I have nothing further to say to you.

How is it that your interpretation of the rules supersede someone who've been deemed fit to be vested with moderator powers?

Anyway, there are several officially [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/98325-Hentai-Collector-Sentenced-to-Jail-Over-Obscene-Material] published [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106174-Child-Safety-Bill-Could-Cripple-Anime-Industry] news posts on the controversy on underage-looking cartoon characters - open for comment - so unless the site has changed its own editorial policy, the interpretation you're pushing doesn't seem likely.

Problems with, and opinion on, controversial digital art styles - especially in games and anime - would seem well within the scope of the site; unlike certain sexual proclivities, a volatile yet stale discussion that focused largely on the status of concepts fully unrelated to digital artistry.

As this Star Trek thing shows, art style controversy can be relevant these days to how a game is(n't) designed. Whether such limitations on artistic freedom and character design - in casu limitations on a customizable protagonist with whom the ability of identification/immersion is paramount for some - are generally warranted would to me seem a valid topic for a gaming site.

 

[Smooth Operator]

even if you could make charachters that looked like young girls its not as if you can run around nakid in the game..can you?

Someone somewhere is always making that mod for a game, sure it's not the designers fault but they would be lashed for it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

This is like the Australian ban on porn with flat women...just so ridiculous.

It's not like Star Trek is the sexy game people delve in to explore their fantasies anyways. It's pretty much the opposite. If anything they should have made their robots with smaller wheels instead cause who knows what kind of fetishes people who play these games could have developed over the years .

 

[kerkanka]

As an MMO star trek online has to fit the laws and regulations of every country or state they sell it in whilst ensuring it stays with a T rating (as that is what their rights contract dictates) With player control over their avatars and "creative" use of emotes this means Cryptic cannot really control what an individual may see whilst roaming around. Combine this with their character creation and the fact that they have to work with all the major star trek races (including those like tellarites which are smaller than most dwarves in mmos) as well as the strategic use for a small (think 2/3 ft) avatar in PvP and you can see how someone may decide to shout foul. They'd be wrong of course but if this person led to a lot of bad publicity or even a ratings change cryptic would take a large hit and they have to cover themselves from the crazy reactionary people in the world.

 

[Thyunda]

As an MMO star trek online has to fit the laws and regulations of every country or state they sell it in whilst ensuring it stays with a T rating (as that is what their rights contract dictates) With player control over their avatars and "creative" use of emotes this means Cryptic cannot really control what an individual may see whilst roaming around. Combine this with their character creation and the fact that they have to work with all the major star trek races (including those like tellarites which are smaller than most dwarves in mmos) as well as the strategic use for a small (think 2/3 ft) avatar in PvP and you can see how someone may decide to shout foul. They'd be wrong of course but if this person led to a lot of bad publicity or even a ratings change cryptic would take a large hit and they have to cover themselves from the crazy reactionary people in the world.

Oh, no, it doesn't break the immersion or common sense at all. Why, when I look out of my window right now, I just see tall women with enormous breasts. C-cup is still pretty sizeable, so that would mean there would be literally nobody without a massively prominent chest.
Yeah. That's realistic. And I'm sorry, but breast size is irrelevant to age. The two have absolutely no connection...strange as it sounds. I mean, they remain in proportion as you get older, but it's rare that they actually outgrow it.

So the point there - irrelevant what the players do with their emotes. Having a woman with small breasts does not make it child porn. I think it's obvious that they're not children when they're flying spaceships and fighting a war with aliens and shit. It's somewhat ridiculous. I mean, sure, if they didn't use that as an excuse, then it's their choice, but it's a terrible excuse.

 

[Wondermint13]

I guess they have that same idea for Phantasy Star Univers's online character creator. Never thought of it like that though.
You can have the height and facial features of a 6 year old if you want but her breasts will never go less than a C cup too.
It gets disturbing when I'm standing around watching all these characters that look like little girls with vibrant juicy boobies running around my feet..
Even more disturbing when they're weilding bloody great spears that are 8 times the size of my polite looking duel swords...

 

[ph0b0s123]

Good discussion. And people kept asking why discussions about issues around a certain crime kept being discussed on a gaming site, as it had nothing to do with games. Well sorry, think again. It maybe disgusting to talk about, but the fallout affects games. So there is no point burying your heads in the sand.

Will be waiting to see how this tread is treated, as a test to see where the Escapist forums are going.

 

[kerkanka]

Oh, no, it doesn't break the immersion or common sense at all. Why, when I look out of my window right now, I just see tall women with enormous breasts. C-cup is still pretty sizeable, so that would mean there would be literally nobody without a massively prominent chest.
Yeah. That's realistic. And I'm sorry, but breast size is irrelevant to age. The two have absolutely no connection...strange as it sounds. I mean, they remain in proportion as you get older, but it's rare that they actually outgrow it.

So the point there - irrelevant what the players do with their emotes. Having a woman with small breasts does not make it child porn. I think it's obvious that they're not children when they're flying spaceships and fighting a war with aliens and shit. It's somewhat ridiculous. I mean, sure, if they didn't use that as an excuse, then it's their choice, but it's a terrible excuse.

No you are completely right, unfortunately it only takes one person to over-react or one country to have a different stance on this issue and Cryptic could become liable for it. It's completely riddiculous and does not reflect reality unfortunately in the modern age and an international product they have to cover themselves. It's simply the level of customization they allow that even means they have to consider this issue even though they really shouldn't have to and in most countries never would. Hell, they haven't even been able to roll out swim suits for every species for the same sort of issue (even though we have beach planets for social zones)

Edit: "why would a game like Star Trek allow to adjust women's breasts in the first place?"
It's Cryptic's unique selling point: they have extensive customization in all their games and let you tweak literally anything: height, weight, width, distance between eyebrows, the streaks in your hair, eye shape, colour, number of eyelids and basically anything you can think of.

 

[Verlander]

This is a real life issue that they need to address, because there are lot of insecurities and flat chested women you have serious emotional problems due to being referred to as "boys" or "children", in the media. I have a friend, a fully functioning adult, but the attitude of the print media and general public (probably influenced by the print media) means that she can sometimes fall heavily depressed- not just grumpy, but real bi-polar manic depression.

It all goes back to what those extra credits guys keep saying. Games should be allowed the same freedoms as other media, but also must work for it. Kiera Knightley is one of the big names in movies, and the only pair of boobs she ever worked with was Orlando Bloom and Johnny Depp. Why can't starfleet have a girl with smaller breasts.

More importantly, why are you trying to make sexual characters on a Star Trek game?

 

[Lma0nade]

What is with you people and indirectly discussing pedophiles?

 

[wooty]

Most females in star trek have impressive or moderate chests, its rare to see a flat chested woman in the trek universe, or a fat person for that matter

 

[Mrrrgggrlllrrrg]

From the sound of it the official response was, "We don't wanna get sued, bye.". Could have been worse, like a certain government of a place that said porn with small breasts promotes child pornography. *cough* unnamed totally.

 

[kerkanka]

So, preventing free will and insulting women with small breasts just to save face is good now? I can't believe I'm saying this, but I hope Fox News hears about this and runs it into the ground with headlines like "Cryptic Studio's Star Trek Online promotes discrimination."

What you have to remember is that this is a single product being sold in one version to nearly every country on the plante. There is only one server so every single piece of sontent in the game has to be legal by EVERY country and has to reach their equivalent of a T rating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors
A quick glimpse at the second paragraph of this wikipedia page shows that there are some countries (soon to include even the UK) where cartoon depictions of women who look underage CAN be contrued as child Porn. While this won't be an issue if nobody ever does anything "creative" in the game- as soon as someone does it could easily turn into a legal issue for Cryptic if the wrong people see. Yes it does take away free will and really is completely crazy that people cannot make any avatar they want, but unfortunately we live in a crazy world where people will react badly and as much as Cryptic may want to set a better example they have to follow the laws of any territory they sell in.

EDIT: the recent release of user generated content further complicates things: yes the content has to be passed by a user review panel, but anyone can submit themselves onto this panel so that wouldn't necessarily stop illegal/innapropriate content being seen by those who might make it a legal issue.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

2 things:
1) does the main character engage in any kind of lewd activity? If not, then it shouldn't be a problem in the first place.
2) If the developer *has* had a problem with it, and are just doing their bit to prevent unnecessary flak to the industry and themselves, then damn, I'm fine with it.

They don't want a mess with ratings systems and what not, it's Star Trek for crying out loud, not some artistic cutting-edge controversial piece of work. So let them conform to whatever they need to in order to get to the audience. It's the general public which created this stigma for games, sexuality, and awkwardness anyways. As against censorship as I am, I don't think this is quite a big deal, for this particular game anyhow.

EDIT: Sorry no offense to Star Trek, I wasn't saying it's not cutting-edge in a sense it is stale or whatever, I just mean as long as it's been around, it's never appealed to the controversial crowd, or ever been stamped with anything higher than a PG rating, it's just not going for that kind of appeal

 

[LiudvikasT]

World insanity level just increased. C cup is average and yet it is treated as absolute minimum. That's just insulting everyone.
Even if the character would look like a child and engaged in some sexual activity, where's the problem, it's a fictional fucking character. No children were harmed in making of that character.