Intolerance and Judgemental thinking - SO FUCKING ANNOYING

[DazBurger]

It depends what satanism you're buying into.

The translation for all forms of satanism is

"I'm an angsty mofoin teenager and I'm pretending to be a part of this absurd religion to shock you. Because I'm so edgy and different."

How much of a tool that makes you depends entierly on the particular brand you think is coolest.

Just so you know. Satanism isn't a real religion. If you're talking about the tripe Anton LaVey laid out in his 'satanic bible'. It's little more than postured musings on individuality.

It doesn't surprise me that your mother would judge it based on it's name. Because if you're going to call it something like that. You're obviously looking for some kind of reaction from the people you tell.

If you actually want to live by 'the creeds' of individuality and indulgence. Here's a novel idea. Why not just be yourself.

Calling yourself a satanist is just a cheap way of getting a rise out of people.

Who are you to tell others that their faith isn't a real religion?

Its thoughts like that, thats giving us Pastafarians a hard time.
WWTFSMD?

You got me all wrong bro. I'm a pastafarian myself.

All hail TFSM!

Damn! Yet another half-assed trolling-attempt ruined!

About Satanism... I actually half agree with you.
There is many kinds of Satanism, some more than a way of life than a religion.

I almost have a respect for some of the types, and even Wicca got its good parts.

... But what I just dont get is why the hell(Thehee)they continue on, using the term given to them by the church... Which they seem to loathe.
Even alotta Wiccan-followers call themselves Satanists.
I just dont get why anyone, unless being an attention-whore, would label oneself a name thats been thrown on you by the Christian church.

.
.
.
May you be touched by his noodley appendage, RAmen.

 

[Elle-Jai]

I thought this thread was about Intolerance and Judgmental thinking...

Ah, the title. You're right, I concede

Although your story does have a habit of inflaming everyone in sight range :/

 

[Sacman]

I thought this thread was about Intolerance and Judgmental thinking...

Ah, the title. You're right, I concede

Although your story does have a habit of inflaming everyone in sight range :/

Your right best to shut my face for a while, but honestly I feel vaguely proud of the fact...

 

[Dr.Sean]

Well honestly it just depends on what sort of metal some metal is music while others is just loud noises with some guy screaming "KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG"

 

[Elle-Jai]

No its not. Hate may have nothing to do with it. For some it may be tradition. It may have to do with their religious beliefs. It could even come down to their choice of language. After all during prop 8 many said they would happily support civil unions with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage but will not support the use of the term marriage.
Besides, we do not allow child marriages, inter family marriages or polygamy either so it is clearly not a right but a privilege.

TWO CONSENTING ADULTS. Fucking A. This is the fundamental difference between gay marriage, and fucking child marriages or interfamily marriages (which have that nasty habit of leading to inbreeding; children with a much higher chance of being born with birth defects, depending on the strength of the relation of the parents). It's positively stupid of you to equate these things. Again: TWO CONSENTING ADULTS.

STOP.

Now, let's think about this logically for a moment, shall we?

Marriage was originally a contract between two FAMILIES, joining a MAN and a WOMAN together for LIFE, often with a DOWRY involved. The MAN and WOMAN were the same RACE and RELIGION or else they were not allowed to be married. LOVE matches, where we marry for love, are NEW. So are interracial marriages, interfaith marriages, and DIVORCE.

Marriage is an evolving tradition. Some people don't like and resist change; that's ok. Some people rush to embrace everything new, and that's also ok.

My mom is not a homophobe (we have my gay cousin living with us and she loves him and accepts him just the way he is, as she does with other gay family members/friends) however she doesn't believe in gay marriage. It's not that she wants to deny them equal rights, it's that change scares her and makes her feel insecure so she clings to "tradition" until she feels better. She does however strongly support civil unions.

I'm bi, pro gay rights, and a member of the local gay community and I'm not even sure what the point of gay marriage is other than to say "we can have it too, b*tches"... Many of my gay friends don't even WANT the marriage option. They'd prefer something gay-exclusive, so they can be reverse marriage-snobs. That said, there are enough who want it and I'd like to see it allowed here in Australia, but my personal beliefs are only being added to this discussion to ensure I'm not the next one accused of latent homophobia. (Which would be amusing. I'd be prejudiced against myself...)

Now, in regards to TWO CONSENTING ADULTS. Remember that the age of majority has traditionally been lower than 21. In some cultures it was as low as 11/12, when the girl started her monthly cycles. Ergo "Child Marriages" have a different meaning in other times, places and cultures than they do for you, so who are you to deny someone in another part of the world the validity of their marriage?! Interfamily marriages are also traditional (ie Noble families, and small communities); the chance of the offspring having birth defects is still fairly low, and often not evident for a few generations.

As for polygamy, if everyone consents then what is the harm? Again, culture, time, place all play into this.

MARRIAGE IS NOT A STATIC INSTITUTION. IT REFLECTS CHANGING SOCIETAL ATTITUDES AS WELL AS PREVAILING CULTURAL TRENDS.

In 50 years this discussion will seem stupid. Don't get caught up in your interpretation of the world; point your side out nicely, allow the other person to point out theirs, then compare to see what points of similarity you have, and where you views differ. ASK WHY instead of assuming the other person is stupid. You might actually learn something, and being open to the world is preventing the "narrow-mindedness" and "ignorance" you're both decrying while deploying.

 

[Elle-Jai]

I've read much into Satanism and I do agree with most of the basic ideas behind it (for example the 9 statements), however the fact is that it is a glorified cult that has religious status, technically to even be called a member you must pay the church something along the likes of $200USD.

Any religion that charges money isnt a religion. The message should be given freely and for no cost. Your are communicating a message, not selling one. I dont believe in any religion.

Referring back to

Spoiler: My earlier post

I've read much into Satanism and I do agree with most of the basic ideas behind it (for example the 9 statements), however the fact is that it is a glorified cult that has religious status, technically to even be called a member you must pay the church something along the likes of $200USD.

If you look into this they actually insist that it's not necessary to sign up. They also point out (rightly, IMO) that since many Christian churches fleece you for 10% of your annual income, a one-off fee of $200USD is nothing.

Do you believe what the system preaches or merely share the ideals? If the latter you're not a satanist.

Again, not quite right. According to their site, Church of Satan [www.churchofsatan.com], you are a Satanist if you align with their philosophy. They merely request that you do not attempt to represent the organisation unless you are actually affiliated with and permitted to represent their views.

From their Youth Communique [http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/Youthletter.html]:
"All you have to do to be a real Satanist is start living like one. Dr. LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible so that people could pick up a copy, read it, and know everything they need to know about Satanism and how to put it to work in their own lives. Most people who choose to become members do so as a symbolic act to themselves, to formally align themselves with others of like mind, and to show their support for a philosophy and way of life they agree with. It is a purely personal decision - we don't solicit memberships."
(Added emphasis is mine.)

 

[Elle-Jai]

Children may not marry one another because they aren't at the age of consent. The law does not recognise them as two consenting citizens. As far as I'm aware being gay doesn't lower your mental age. Both incest (depending on the relative) and polygamy are illegal. As far as I know being gay isn't. Why would we allow two people to marry in a relationship that is not recognised by law?

This depends on your country of origin. I will point out that for many states, it is a recent (ie, within the last 50 years) development that being gay is not illegal, as it was a criminal offence in the UK, US, Australia, and many other countries for centuries. It is still illegal in many countries; Italy is only slowly coming around to gay rights, and many of the other quite religious countries have it firmly outlawed as "unnatural".

Seriously, there is ONE motivation to call yourself a satanist. And incidentally, why do they always listen to metal?

I didn't. I was a Satanist who listened to the Backstreet Boys. Beat that lol.

Well honestly it just depends on what sort of metal some metal is music while others is just loud noises with some guy screaming "KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR DOG RAPE YOUR MOTHER KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG KILL YOUR MOTHER RAPE YOUR DOG"

Where the hell did you find my mixtape? I thought I destroyed it!! :O

Seriously though, what metal have you been listening to?! And ever heard of gospel metal?? It's funny as, hardcore metal preaching Jesus. Good on them though

 

[Elle-Jai]

So it is for the exact reason I stated. It's nothing more than cheap shock and awe. I think I'll stick to just being myself. Surely he has to understand how hypocritical it is to be so vocal against conformity, only then to make a set of distinct rules that his followers have to conform to?

I just think it's really cheap to be frank. The use of 'Satan' is little more than a way to grab attention. That's pretty much how I feel about the people who claim to be followers of it too.

Spoiler: This was getting long, so I've spoilered it for you :)

Satanism is and always has been "the treasured domain of an imperious few" (taken from Magus Peter H Gilmore's Introduction to The Satanic Bible). Those who prefer to see themselves as the ultimate creator of their own future, those who worship not at the altar of martyrdom and sacrifice of the few on behalf of the many, but instead who believe in the sanctity of the individual's freedoms, rights and consequences. Those who believe success should follow your own work rather than a misty wish delivered up to some parental figure residing in the sky.

Satanism is by it's very name exclusive; it asks us to challenge what we know, what we think we know, and to delve deeper into the mysteries and sciences that make the world go round. It is not a religion for posers, pretender, and sheep looking for a new flock. It is a religion of self-confessed wolves, whose "magick" is described by said Magus as "self-transformative psychodrama".

Everything they say makes sense to me on an intellectual level; on the spiritual level I find I am more of a "sheep" than I had heretofore suspected, and that I find strength not in my own actions, but within that of a loving spiritual family (the Goddess and the God).

It is, in part, a shock tactic, designed to separate the wheat from the chaff; but it is not meant to be the domain of a few disillusioned teenagers looking for a new avenue of loud and "anti-conformist" rebellion.

It is not the religion you tell your parents you're a part of while sporting a baphomet and listening to death metal while screaming "I'M A SATANIST! What are you gonna do about it?!" It is for those mature enough to understand self-determinism, who know when to speak and when to stay silent, who realise that the strength of Satanism comes not from the looks others give you but from the sense of yourself it offers.

So while I agree in part with your statement, I disagree with the sentiment it espouses. However I do grant that when I hear someone saying "I'm a Satanist" the majority of the time this culminates in me either a) Knowing more about their religion than they do (not uncommon with most religions for me however), and/or b) thinking "what a tosser. I bet the Satanists don't even want this one."

As for the hypocritical aspect, I think Vexen Crabtree [http://www.dpjs.co.uk/church_of_satan.html] puts it best here:

It is criticized for its contradictory nature: how can an individualistic religion of dissenters have a representative organisation? Although I lay out the benefits here it remains the fact that most Satanists do not join the actual Church of Satan but merely give it a nod and a wink.

From Loyal Dissent [http://www.dpjs.co.uk/church_of_satan.html#Dissent] on Vexen's page:

"Gerald Arbuckle, a member of a Roman Catholic religious order, writing with feeling about the struggles in his own church, has coined the useful phrase "loyal dissent". Dissent, says Arbuckle, is vital for a living church since it 'proposes alternatives' and it is only by looking at alternatives that a body can evolve creatively."

Followed by:

Arbuckle's term was employed to describe some individials within the Church who think differently. The Church of Satan differs in that nearly all its members are of the loyal dissenter type, so much so that it is only ever noted when a person seems to lack this quality, rather than commented on when someone possesses this common Satanic trait.

Vexen follows with a discussion of membership benefits (if you scroll down slghtly) here [http://www.dpjs.co.uk/church_of_satan.html#Membership].

 

[The Stabilo Boss]

It's hilarious how many people think Satan and Lucifer are the same being.

Yeah, what dumbasses. Like these guys, what the hell do they know about what words mean?

http://oxforddictionaries.com/search?searchType=dictionary&isWritersAndEditors=true&searchUri=All&q=lucifer&_searchBtn=Search&contentVersion=WORLD

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/lucifer

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/lucifer?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744:v0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=lucifer&sa=Search#922

 

[loremazd]

Satanism isn't a religion, it's a LOOK AT ME I'M EDGY tool.

Granted, many religious people use religion to get attention, so it's really not that unusual.

 

[Atmos Duality]

It's hilarious how many people think Satan and Lucifer are the same being.

Yeah, what dumbasses. Like these guys, what the hell do they know about what words mean?

http://oxforddictionaries.com/search?searchType=dictionary&isWritersAndEditors=true&searchUri=All&q=lucifer&_searchBtn=Search&contentVersion=WORLD

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/lucifer

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/lucifer?cx=partner-pub-0939450753529744:v0qd01-tdlq&cof=FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=lucifer&sa=Search#922

Oops!
I meant the Angel of Death, not Satan.
Dunno what the hell I was thinking when I posted that nonsense.

 

[Elle-Jai]

Not the point. In most countries it's legal now. And however you look at it. It's denying them the right to be recognised as a legit couple by law. Simply because of who they choose.

Just because marriage has been sadly taken off the table by those who haven't yet come around (I hold higher hopes for the next generation or two) doesn't mean that they can't be recognized as a "legit couple". Civil unions can hold all of the same rights and priveleges as marriage; my country's national welfare system now enables you to declare your same-sex defacto partner; and Tasmania, whose anti-gay laws had to be overridden by federal law (about 20 years back) is now the most progressive Australian state in terms of gay rights.

And while I'm all for gay rights, I can also understand what's holding the more conservative folk back. Hence I am being open-minded. I would not be an open-minded liberal if I declared them unfeeling, unempathetic jerks merely because their point of view clashes with mine; I would be one of them, only in reverse. I will not shove liberalism down anyone's throat. I will encourage them to see the other perspective and hopefully they can compromise to everyone's satisfaction.

I put forward that it should simply be called 'Philosophy of self' or 'humanism'.

I'm going to refer you back to my previous post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.232022-Intolerance-and-Judgemental-thinking-SO-FUCKING-ANNOYING?page=2#8144542] once again (excerpt taken from the full post):

I quite liked the suggestion of "Humanism" personally (see my earlier post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.232022-Intolerance-and-Judgemental-thinking-SO-FUCKING-ANNOYING#8143952] for my reference.)