There's a lot of confusion to people about what "rap" is and what makes it rap vs. hip-hop. Really, rap is a popularized term for hip-hop that caught on just like the term rock n roll did. Mostly because of "gangsta rap" which is a subgenre in hip-hop like hardcore is a subgenre in punk. The focus is supposed to be on the DJ, not the emcee. The emcee is supposed to be a hype man, kinda like Flava Flav is to Public Enemy. Somewhere in the early 80s that flipped over and the emcee became the focus. That might explain why it began to be called "rap" over hip-hop because emcees rap ("rap" is technically rhythmic poetry - you know kinda like the beatnik stuff you see on TV, etc. It all comes from black culture that goes back to the 1700s). I also think the popularity of Yo! MTV Raps might have set that along too.
As far as Gangsta rap goes, it used to have political undertones. There was a lot in N.W.A.'s songs about racial tensions and it brought to light a lot of the problems in the American ghettos that were overlooked before that. When the L.A. riots broke out NWA was first on the scene discussing with the media the problems that led up to the riots. Eazy E's death to AIDS was a shock to many people and started a lot of discussion about the disease in the media (it was no longer killing just gay people OMG) Following NWA's success the industry started dragging for any other legit gangsta rap entities they could grab up and this fed Dr. Dre's popularity (which in turn led to Death Row being formed). Now we have a bunch of paper gangsters (like 50cent and Nelly) making bastardized commercial shite. But that doesn't mean that there isn't something good out there to equal it out. For every 50Cent there's a Nas, for every Nelly and Soulja Boy there's a Public Enemy.
Regardless of what people say, being commercialized does not make something "not art". All music is art because it is a form of expression. The sole purpose of film making and video games are to make money. Yet, they are art.
Personally, I don't mind the term "rap" any more because I've come to look at it as the proverbial taint of hip hop culture. It keeps the "shit" from touching its balls.
Kanye West is a great example of how hip hop can be popularized and still have substance. Personally, I would change that to read "if you look past his ego" haha.
1) Does the song contain a worthwhile message? So much rap is full of crap, nonsense about shooting rivals and getting high and flashing money while acting like a hyperactive 10 year old. Some rap, on the other hand, can contain political and religious messages which could be considered art. Certainly, if it's playing on MTV, and it's rap, it's probably not art.
2) Depends on what you consider art. Personally, I don't. But then again, I haven't listened to much rap because it just sounds so..... unpleasant to my ears. But they said the exact same thing about electronica, the said the same thing about rock music and even jazz when they first came out.
I'm not sure most modern day music is 'art'. Oh sure, it can be nice to listen to, but most bands these days come across as generic to me, over-sexualized, and shallow. I can't tell you how many times I've turned on the radio, only to hear the same 3 or 4 types of voices repeated again and again.
Beethoven, Bach, Strauss, Sousa, are all artists of the highest degree. Surely anyone listening to "Jay-Z's" latest claptrap about owning big sports cars can't possibly hold that to the same level as say, "Bohemian Rhapsody". That would be a cruel joke.
One thing charge I can level at most rap music - it's not very complex, musically. The lyrics might be complex, but usually it's just a beat and some guys going "yeah, yeah" over and over again. Of course, that's not all rap, there are some rap artiss who mix classical music in with their beats, and I'm sure it's sounds good and all that.
99.9% of the rap music I, personally, have been exposed to, has been generic, worthless crap about nonsensical, useless things. It's shallow, materialistic, simple and juvenille. Some of the rap music videos that I have seen look like they were written by an exceptionally retarded 13 year old, what with all the useless gold chains, needless screaming into a camera, half-naked women and pointless antics.
What's really sad about rap is that it used to be about "rebelling" against the "man". But now, all the "popular" gangsta rappers teach their people to neglect education and instead, become a shallow, unthinking thug - and who benefits? Not the black man, no siree. And who OWNS the corporations making this "gangsta" rap and "urban hip-hop"? White people. Old white men, making a TON of money off people like "fiddy cent". Oh sure, "fiddy" lives in a big mansion, but how many other black people who admire that walking-billboard of unrestrained idiocy also live in mansions?
Rap music at the end of the day, is just a genre. It's just a "form" of music. It COULD be made into art, and some rap might be called art. I wouldn't know - all the rap I have heard has been crap, and it's turned me off the genre completely.
My personal opinion is, is it music? Yes. Is music art? Yes. Is rap art? Then yes. I don't even care what it is about, if it is rap its art, because rap is music is art. Its that simple. We can't be drawing lines wherever we want just because we don't like certain themes. It's not right. Can we draw lines wherever we want on what is human or not? No. I think that just because someone doesn't like a genre of some sort doesn't give them the power to declare it "not art". Before you put words into my mouth, or say I'm one-sided, I do not like all forms of rap. Modern rap really does blow in majority. Back in the day it was better. But it's still rap. So how can you say it doesn't count? Plus, denouncing art for reasons concerning content/thematic/vulgarity is conservatism in its most pointless, old fashioned form.
Music is art. Poetry is art. Mix them together, you expect to get something great but, instead you get this bullshit! Rap is not art. I will never look at rap as art, no matter what happens.
Then you are ignorant. There is no universal law of what is or what is not art, even though some mediums (like painting and music) is easier to get into art.
Well, I assume that there is one requirement for something to be considered art, IT HAS TO BE GOOD! We do all have different taste in music but, I just don't see anything artistic or good about people saying "Fuck" and "Shit" every other word.
Music is art. Poetry is art. Mix them together, you expect to get something great but, instead you get this bullshit! Rap is not art. I will never look at rap as art, no matter what happens.
Then you are ignorant. There is no universal law of what is or what is not art, even though some mediums (like painting and music) is easier to get into art.
Well, I assume that there is one requirement for something to be considered art, IT HAS TO BE GOOD! We do all have different taste in music but, I just don't see anything artistic or good about people saying "Fuck" and "Shit" every other word.
When speaking about music, "good" is subjective. Just because YOU think people saying "fuck" and "shit" every other word isn't good doesn't mean it ISN'T good.
Also, STOP generalizing. It'd be the same if I said "All metal is people playing powerchords and screaming their ass off!" and yet we have stuff like Tool, who ARE metal.
I dont think that any particular rap song has to be good to be art, and although i dont like rap (except for Flobots, maybe) i would say rap is an art
The lyrics are basically poetry, so it qualifies
as much as I detest rap/r&b/hip hop etc etc..I do admit it in it's own is an art by all definitions....not one I like, though one can appreciate SOME aspects...but then again I prefer it over country, and that's an art so why not?
I guess I'm to old to consider it art, I think its trash.
But my great great grandparents thought jazz was trash, and jazz is most assuredly art, so its a never-ending vicious cycle of old people hating new music.
But I'd like to see someone justify "The shit is bananas" or "thong song" as art.
"Who let the dogs out?"
And what was that song in the 90s where he raps the procedure for free-basing cocaine?
lou reed wrote a song about taking heroin, in fact he wrote several. so writing songs about drugs is not a modern thing.
and no one is trying to justify "the shit is bananas as art" (which is gwen stefani, not rap), try listening to some good rap like public enemy, n.w.a., de la soul, beastie boys (my favourite, Paul's Boutique is genius), run dmc or Illmatic by NAS. its not all shit and a lot of it is pretty interesting and important.
its the same with rock, that has its shite as well like Starship and a lot of prog rock, notably Emerson Lake and Palmer and Yes, as well as hair metal trash like twisted sister and motley crue. don't judge a genre by its worst parts because they will all sound terrible.
and i say this while listening to grievous angel by gram parsons, so i appreciate the classics as much as anyone else. but rap deserves a look in as well.
If one discredits rap as art then one must also question whether or not poetry is art. I consider both to be creative arts. I think its of a highly ignorant opinion to think that hip-hop consists solely of the mainstream rap people hear. That is a paper thin excuse for having not looked into the genre in the slightest. Of one goes even a fraction further than the mainstream media into the hip hop industry you can uncover some incredible artists, who, despite not being in the mainstream media, are very popular yet create art. Artists like Talib Kweli, The Roots, J5, A Tribe Called Quest and De La Sol are just a few names of artists who are immensely popular in the hip hop scene and continue to produce good, well thought-out hip hop.
I'm really incredibly tired of people who claim that all rap sucks when they've heard about enough hip-hop songs to count on one fucking hand and they heard all of them off MTV. And if you still think you're right that hip hop isn't art then please kindly go out back and fuck yourselves because to pigeon-hole a massive genre like that is absolutely balls-out retarded.
Your URL is broken, but lets look at the definition of poetry:
"The art of rhythmical composition, written or spoken, for exciting pleasure by beautiful, imaginative, or elevated thoughts."
Are most rap songs beautiful? No.
Imaginative? Rarely.
Elevated thoughts? I doubt it.
Rap isn't suitable for poetry. Most of the message comes from people who either had a though life or act like they do.
In fact, I found the best rap in my library and compared it to a genre no one would think of as poetry and found a shocking discovery.
I'm selling heavenly sketches
A world out of my mind
Ready to explode in purity
To fill the wholes inside
An ever moving stream
With glowing rays of light
Emotions tied to past lies
And I know I should let go
Tamed with confidence of a brighter future
I found a flame in the burnt out ashes... burn out, burn out
Fueled these new shores burn
Dark past lies cold
Shadow, my sweet shadow
To you I look no more
Another dawn collapses
Do I need to be reminded?
A glimpse of my safe home
A path to hide all anger
In circles I catch
A torch carried by the immortal
From depths that I created
In vain echoes fade
Now compare that to any song that you have and tell me what sounds more like poetry.[/quote]
Sorry about the broken URL. It linked to the song Dance with the Devil, by Immortal Technique.
Here are the song's lyrics.
[Verse 1]
I once knew a nigga whose real name was William
his primary concern, was making a million
being the illest hustler, that the world ever seen
he used to fuck moviestars and sniff coke in his dreams
a corrupted young mind, at the age of thirteen
nigga never had a father and his mom was a feen
she put the pipe down, but forever yeah she was sober
her sons heart simultaneously grew colder
he started hanging out selling bags in the projects
checking the young chicks, looking for hit and run prospects
he was fascinated by material objects
but he understood money never bought respect
he build a reputation cause he could hustle and steal
but got locked once it didn't hesitate to squeal
so criminals he chilled with didn't think he was real
you see me and niggaz like this have never been equal
I dont project my insurecurity's at other people
he feeded for props like addicts with pipes and needles
so he felt he had to prove to everyone he was evil
a fever minded young man with infinite potetial
the product of a ghetto breed capatalistic mental
coincidentally dropped out of school to sell weed
dancing with the devil, smoked until his eyes would bleed
but he was sick of selling trees and gave in to his greed
[Hook]
Everyone trying to be trife never face the consequences
you propably only did a month for minor offences
ask a nigga doing life if he had another chance
but then again there's always the wicked at new and advanced
dance forever with the devil on a code cell block
but thats what happens when you rape, murder and sell rock
devils used to be gods, angels that fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot
[Verse 2]
So Billy started robbing niggaz, anything he could do
he'd get his respect back, in the eyes of his crew
starting fights over little shit, up on the block
stepped up to selling mothers and brothers the crack rock
working overtime for making money for the crack spot
hit the jackpot and wanted to move up to cocaine
for filling the scarface fantasy stuck in his brain
tired of the block niggaz treating him the same
he wanted to be major like the cut throats and the thugs
but when he tried to step to 'em, niggaz showed him no love
they told him any motherfucking coward can sell drugs
any ***** nigga with a gun, can bust slugs
any nigga with a red shirt can front like a blood
even Puffy smoked the ************ up in a club
but only a real thug can stab someone till they die
standing in front of them, starring straight into their eyes
Billy realized that these men were well guarded
and they wanted to test him, before business started
suggested raping a ***** to prove he was cold hearted
so now he had a choice between going back to his life
or making money with made men, up in the cife
his dreams about cars and ice, made him agree
a hardcore nigga is all he ever wanted to be
and so he met them friday night at a quarter to three
[Hook]
[Verse 3]
They drove around the projects slow while it was raining
smoking blunts, drinking and joking for entertainment
untill they saw a woman on the street walking alone
three in the morning, coming back from work, on her way home
and so they quietly got out the car and followed her
walking through the projects, the darkness swallowed her
they wrapped her shirt around her head and knocked her onto the floor
this is it kid now you got your chance to be raw
so Billy oaked her up and grapped the chick by the hair
and dragged her into a lobby that had nobody there
she struggled hard but they forced her to go up the stairs
they got to the roof and then held her down on the ground
screaming shut the fuck up and stop moving around
the shirt covered her face, but she screamed the clouts
so Billy stomped on the *****, until he broken her jaw
the dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing
they kicked her until they cracked her ribs and she stopped moving
blood leaking through the cloth, she cried silently
and then they all proceeded to rape her violently
Billy was meant to go first, but each of them took a turn
ripping her up, and choking her until her throat burned
a broken jaw mumbled for god but they weren't concerned
when they were done and she was lying bloody, broken and broos
one of them niggaz pulled out a brand new twenty-two
they told him that she was a witness of what she'd gone through
and if he killed her he was guaranteed a spot in the crew
he thought about it for a minute, she was practicly dead
and so he leaned over and put the gun right to her head
I'm falling and I can't turn back
I'm falling and I can't turn back
[Verse 4]
Right before he pulled the trigger, and ended her life
he thought about the cold pain with the platinum and ice
and he felt strong standing along with his new brothers
cocked the gat to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover
but what he saw made him start the cringine studder
cuz he was starring into the eyes of his own mother
she looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her
she cried more painfully, than when they were raping her
his whole world stopped, he couldn't even contiplate
his corruption had succesfully changed his fate
and he remembered how his mom used to come home late
working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth
he turned away from the woman that had once given him birth
and crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared
but only the devil responded, cause god wasn't there
and right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold
and so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul
they say death take you to a better place but I doubt it
after that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it
and listen cause the story that I'm telling is true
cuz I was there with Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom to
and now the devil follows me everywhere that I go
infact I'm sure he's standing among one of you at my shows
and every street cypher listening to little thugs flow
he could be standing right next to you, and you wouldn't know
the devil grows inside the hearts of the selfish and wicked
white, brown, yellow and black colored is not restricted
you have a self destructive destiny when your inflicted
and you'll be one of gods children and fell from the top
there's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot
so when the devil wants to dance with you, you better say never
because the dance with the devil might last you forever
Oh god wall of text. Its a song about a man who lets his vices take control of his life that leads to death of him and his mother. It then reflects on how are personal devils can lead to our own self destruction. To me this poetic, but thats just me. Sorry about the offensive language.
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