Is Rap Music Really Music?

[Mozared]

I'm probably beating a dead horse by now, but, I suppose you shouldn't call it 'music', no. The best way to test this is to think about how you would explain the style to an alien. If you were talking about music, and let the alien hear some Country, Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Metal and Reggae first and then suddenly switched to pure rap (1 beat the whole song long), the alien might be confused - for that purpose I wouldn't call rap music.

For any other purpose, it really doesn't matter much.

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm probably beating a dead horse by now, but, I suppose you shouldn't call it 'music', no. The best way to test this is to think about how you would explain the style to an alien. If you were talking about music, and let the alien hear some Country, Blues, Rock 'n Roll, Metal and Reggae first and then suddenly switched to pure rap (1 beat the whole song long), the alien might be confused - for that purpose I wouldn't call rap music.

For any other purpose, it really doesn't matter much.

I reckon the alien would be more inclined to consider metal the odd one out. The modern rap sound evolved directly from dancehall reggae, however modern metal doesn't sound texturally a lot like blues or rock and roll from the 1950s (even though they are distantly related).

Also, I can't think of a single rap song off the top of my head that is only a beat and words, with no other elements.

 

[DSK-]

If Rap isn't music, then neither is anything created by Kate Bush.

 

[SFMB]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

 

[Nifty]

I say no. I define music very simply as something having a musical melody. Sung, played, strummed, doesn't matter, as long as it's present. Speaking quickly does not a melody make. Thus rap isn't music.

Which is not to say there's no rap out there worth listening to; on the contrary, some is both worthwhile and socially relevant. However, when the vast majority of it is about how cool it is to be a criminal, or to have hot bitches and big TVs, I think society as a whole can do without that.

Clarification edit: I'm not saying rap is bad or not worth listening to, in fact I'm quite fond of quite a bit of it. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be classified as music, it should be classified as something else that's similar but different.

I suppose some of your best friends are black as well, are they?

If rap doesn't match up to your definition of music (even though vast amounts of it does), then your definition of music doesn't match up to the dictionary definition of music. Which would mean one of you is wrong. To be honest, I don't know which one to plump for.

 

[AvitaDeva]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

Wow you just broke the mold buddy...all the well articulated arguments here for and against Rap as a genre of music must bow down before the majesty and general thoroughness of your agreement...if you can't bring a well thought argument to a thread then why post at all your input is essentially meaningless and therefore it should be kept to your self. You did not even attempt to provide a definition of music and no supporting content which denies rap it's standing as a musical genre. If you come here to post this and things like "you cant spell rap with out crap" or "Retard Attempting Poetry" you should simply leave or post that shit on youtube where your ignorance will be ignored except by those whom want to fight a losing battle against the forces of stupidity. I boggles my mind that this is even a question in the minds of some people. Just a note to future posters please read some of the arguments presented before hand and formulate a coherent and complete thought it will, for that is what this thread is a about answering a question and a cliche or silly one liner is not gonna answer a god damn thing.

 

[fenrizz]

Message aside though, if the lead voice (be it vocal or instrumental) isn't melodic, then it's not music, it's words being spoken with musical backing. There's a difference. Like I said, I'm not condemning rap as not being worth listening to, I'm just saying it's not music, it's something else.

I think you got it wrong here mate.
From what I'm getting you mean that it is not singing (or song if you wish).
On that note most classical music ain't that either, but it still is music.

 

[pulse2]

No: Rap isn't music. Rap is primarily a joke. A bad joke.

Wow you just broke the mold buddy...all the well articulated arguments here for and against Rap as a genre of music must bow down before the majesty and general thoroughness of your agreement...if you can't bring a well thought argument to a thread then why post at all your input is essentially meaningless and therefore it should be kept to your self. You did not even attempt to provide a definition of music and no supporting content which denies rap it's standing as a musical genre. If you come here to post this and things like "you cant spell rap with out crap" or "Retard Attempting Poetry" you should simply leave or post that shit on youtube where your ignorance will be ignored except by those whom want to fight a losing battle against the forces of stupidity. I boggles my mind that this is even a question in the minds of some people. Just a note to future posters please read some of the arguments presented before hand and formulate a coherent and complete thought it will, for that is what this thread is a about answering a question and a cliche or silly one liner is not gonna answer a god damn thing.

Well... Short sentences are easier for simple minds. Trolling succeeded.

Would that therefore make you a joke? Considering you didn't take the time to explain why.

Like you said, simple sentences for simple minds. Or in this case, 'by' simple minds.

 

[SFMB]

Ok. People can call me a rapper.

 

[PrimoThePro]

Spoiler: You call this MUSIC?!

No it is not.
I see music by their lyrics and the emotions conveyed in the music. Some Rap is poetic and beautiful, I call such music Urban, not Rap.
It's why I like Metal. It is so true to itself and there are lyrics there that are more then just "I slammed 40 bitches last night."

 

[AK47Marine]

Rap is music, "good" music on the other hand is entirely questionable

 

[pulse2]

Spoiler: You call this MUSIC?!

No it is not.
I see music by their lyrics and the emotions conveyed in the music. Some Rap is poetic and beautiful, I call such music Urban, not Rap.
It's why I like Metal. It is so true to itself and there are lyrics there that are more then just "I slammed 40 bitches last night."

That's gangsta rap, simply because it hails violence and the mistreatment of women.

There are plenty of young aspiring rappers both in the UK and America who haven't got a single word of violence.

One notable person being Will Smith himself, he made it to where he is today with his friend rapping, not about hoes, bitches, money and capping people with a 9mm gap or some nonsense, but in a funky way, his is more happy go for clubs however and then like metal, there are rappers who rap about politics, love, a relationship between people and more, Ludacris himself has done some humourous raps and some raps focused on sad issues 'run away love' for example was focused on young girls who have run away from home.

At the same time, he has done his fair share of gangster rubbish, but the gangster rubbish unfortunatly sells. Just the same way half of pop music is mainstream and good songs don't sell but bad songs sell extremely well. In a perfect world, 'Under My Umbrella' byt Rihanna would never reach number one.

Even those famous gangster rappers have had albums where one song (the song that represents the album) is gangster related and the rest isn't.

Lupe Fiasco is another one that raps without having to talk about gangster related topics.

The very concept that all other music is perfect except rap is stupid, I've heard my fair share of crappy songs in every genre and saying that death metal and metal are the same satanic crap is just downright ignorant.

 

[DiMono]

Message aside though, if the lead voice (be it vocal or instrumental) isn't melodic, then it's not music, it's words being spoken with musical backing. There's a difference. Like I said, I'm not condemning rap as not being worth listening to, I'm just saying it's not music, it's something else.

I think you got it wrong here mate.
From what I'm getting you mean that it is not singing (or song if you wish).
On that note most classical music ain't that either, but it still is music.

That's why my overarching point has to do with melody, rather than singing. If I'm talking to you, the pitch of my voice is necessarily changing unless I'm trying to hypnotize you or something. Does that mean me speaking is music?

 

[pulse2]

Message aside though, if the lead voice (be it vocal or instrumental) isn't melodic, then it's not music, it's words being spoken with musical backing. There's a difference. Like I said, I'm not condemning rap as not being worth listening to, I'm just saying it's not music, it's something else.

I think you got it wrong here mate.
From what I'm getting you mean that it is not singing (or song if you wish).
On that note most classical music ain't that either, but it still is music.

That's why my overarching point has to do with melody, rather than singing. If I'm talking to you, the pitch of my voice is necessarily changing unless I'm trying to hypnotize you or something. Does that mean me speaking is music?

No, but see it this way, does one have to have a pitch in thier voice when writing a poem for it to be classed as music? What about the sentiment of the words, or the rhyming itself. Melodies are just added to make the words easier to listen to, but it doesnt define words as music or not. That would be like saying art is not art without colour. Therefore a drawing with a pencil is not considered art until it has some colour.

Personally I grow more attached to what is said then how it is said. If you call yourself a singer, I expect you to sing a ballad that truly allows you to demonstrate how good you are with your voice, singing the same verse over and over is no more music then not having a melody at all if that is the case.

 

[PrimoThePro]

Spoiler: You call this MUSIC?!

No it is not.
I see music by their lyrics and the emotions conveyed in the music. Some Rap is poetic and beautiful, I call such music Urban, not Rap.
It's why I like Metal. It is so true to itself and there are lyrics there that are more then just "I slammed 40 bitches last night."

there are rappers who rap about politics, love, a relationship between people and more

That's what I'm talking about! That music, although not my preference is very respectable. It's always nice to hear when Rap music doesn't sell out.
I liked your point about "other music is perfect except rap". You are right of course, that all genres have their own failures and faults, but Rap is most noted first because it is most popular, and thus somehow intertwined into the "Pop" genre. And since all we hear from Rap, or at least recently for me, all I hear from rap is just this bullshit about sex and money and drugs and shooting. I know there is beautiful Rap out there that could change the face of the genre forever, but it will continue to be sullied because the masses demand that meaningful emotion be ripped from the songs.

 

[Virus0015]

Like it or not it has apparently become a category of music. A significant amount of it is shit and distasteful to say the least, but I have seen some decent rap songs. besides It's my opinion and also I'm not going to judge an entire genre just by what I have seen so far.

 

[pulse2]

Spoiler: You call this MUSIC?!

No it is not.
I see music by their lyrics and the emotions conveyed in the music. Some Rap is poetic and beautiful, I call such music Urban, not Rap.
It's why I like Metal. It is so true to itself and there are lyrics there that are more then just "I slammed 40 bitches last night."

there are rappers who rap about politics, love, a relationship between people and more

That's what I'm talking about! That music, although not my preference is very respectable. It's always nice to hear when Rap music doesn't sell out.
I liked your point about "other music is perfect except rap". You are right of course, that all genres have their own failures and faults, but Rap is most noted first because it is most popular, and thus somehow intertwined into the "Pop" genre. And since all we hear from Rap, or at least recently for me, all I hear from rap is just this bullshit about sex and money and drugs and shooting. I know there is beautiful Rap out there that could change the face of the genre forever, but it will continue to be sullied because the masses demand that meaningful emotion be ripped from the songs.

Thats exactly my point, the mainstream scene attempts to destroy the respect we have for music and only people who REALLY have an appreciation for music will bother to look behind the mainstream.

To say rap is about 50 Cent is the same as saying Rock is about Linkin Park.

It really is sad, many of my schoolmates (I make sure to call them this because none of them are my friends now) back in school used to listen to rap, if you dared bring in some Led Zepplin, they look at you like as if you are a geek and ask you 'why do you like that screaming crap', it's not screaming, and what is it anyone's business what I listen to. If you have no appreciation for what Led Zepplin, Aerosmith, Guns and Roses (and I could keep going) have done, you don't understand what music is. If you didn't think Black Eyed Peas songs were better before they released the E.N.D (ironic name), you don't know what music is. If you think Rihanna's music and Katy Perry's music is the best thing you ahev ever heard, you don't know about music.

If you can't see that many artists today are using autotune t make themselves sound amazzing, you don't know about music. And last but not least, if your judgement of rap is on killing Ns in the street with shotguns, and pimping hoes, then you REALLY don't know anything about music. Enough said

 

[DiMono]

(snip)

No, but see it this way, does one have to have a pitch in thier voice when writing a poem for it to be classed as music? What about the sentiment of the words, or the rhyming itself. Melodies are just added to make the words easier to listen to, but it doesnt define words as music or not. That would be like saying art is not art without colour. Therefore a drawing with a pencil is not considered art until it has some colour.

I think you're overreaching with the metaphor here. Allow me to address each example in turn:

On poetry being music... well, music isn't music unless you can hear it (no offense intended to deaf people I guess?). If the poem is on the page, then no it's not music any more than uncompiled code is a video game. What it is is the potential for music. Potentially, that poem could be lyrics to be used in a song. Technically, all song lyrics (rap, rock, R&B, whathaveyou) are poetry, but not all poetry is song lyrics. Intent doesn't make for results on its own, and as such, written words on their own are not music. However, if you take that same poem and put it in the context of "these are song lyrics," then it can become music. In the same light though, I've written lots of song lyrics that never went anywhere, and as such they are not music.

As for art not being art if it doesn't have colour, that's a different argument and not really comparable. A better comparison would be a description of what you intend to draw, with a picture of it in your head. Again, that is the potential for art, but it isn't art yet. I think that's a better comparison for the argument you're aiming for, if I'm understanding you correctly.

On the other hand, if we consider lyrics as a subset of poetry, then there is a comparison to be made with a pencil drawing. We'd then have to alter our scope of consideration a little, by saying art is comparable to written word, drawn art is comparable to poetry, and a specific type of drawn art, such as comic, is comparable to lyrics.

A comic illustrator will first sketch out what he wants to do in pencil, as a rough guideline. Then he'll redraw it in pen, replacing the pencil sketch entirely. In that process, the pencil sketch is potentially a comic, but it's also potentially a painting, a black and white drawing, or any other number of drawn forms of art. Similarly, poetry is potentially lyrics, but it's also potentially narrative, epic poem, joke, or any other number of types of written work. And in both cases, the person creating it may choose to just stop where they are and have that as the finished product. All comics are drawn art in the same way that all lyrics are poetry, and all drawn art is art in the same way that all poetry is the written word.

Wow, that ended up being a lot more long-winded than I'd planned on.

 

[Jnat]

Of course it is!