Is this right, or even legal?

[Girl With One Eye]

I think the school went with the wrong punishment. A detention or something would have been better, and maybe an appointment with a school counsellor. The kid clearly has got some issues to deal with and the school should have been more understanding.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I think the school went with the wrong punishment. A detention or something would have been better, and maybe an appointment with a school counsellor. The kid clearly has got some issues to deal with and the school should have been more understanding.

Schools in the UK don't provide those kind of services from what I understand. Really seeing a counselor, and the punishment would have been a step in the right direction.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

Psychological abuse isn't cool as a punishment for children or adults.

 

[ninetails593]

[EDIT numero tres!] Removed the bit about him not liking water since many people here are just using that to say that he deserved it, when truly that fact is very very trivial.

I'm neutral about the topic, but I don't think removing information because people use it to make a point you don't agree with is right.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

[EDIT numero tres!] Removed the bit about him not liking water since many people here are just using that to say that he deserved it, when truly that fact is very very trivial.

I'm neutral about the topic, but I don't think removing information because people use it to make a point you don't agree with is right.

The truth there is astonishing. What kind of excuse is, "I don't like water," for, "I stole a soda from the school," really?

 

[Syntax Error]

I'm not that big of a believer in punishment. You want something to get done, you need to encourage, not coerce. Punishing children might just start off a cycle of negativity that will last the rest of their lives.

 

[kutuup]

It's a little heavy handed depending on the age of the kid and maybe they should offer counselling options to him, but he still needs to be punished otherwise he will learn that there is no punishment for stealing. I'd say the punishment was fitting to the offense personally. You can't let someone off for committing a crime because they have a hard life, the kid needs to learn that. The school should however offer support once he's served his punishment.

Put this whole thing in perspective, my Grandfather lived in Ireland as a child and was arrested for stealing food since his family lived in pretty much poverty. He was sent to what is called an Industrial School for the rest of his school life and was subjected to horrendous abuse that ultimately resulted in his suicide as an older man. THAT is an injustice. This kid got a fair punishment in my eyes.

 

[littlewisp]

A good punishment would have been to have him spend some time doing something productive for poor people with a good teacher's or counselor's supervision.

Or even just a good heart to heart with a strict teacher. I don't know how my mom does it, but she irons out most of her troublemakers before the school year is out (she teaches 6th grade). I remember she had a kid once whose parents died so basically she kept getting shipped around between two of her relatives. No one wanted her. They just felt obligated.

In the kid's shoes though, without responsible parents at home or any other sort of stable role model, the humiliation of cleaning the bathroom would inspire me to commit greater crimes/pranks.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I'm not that big of a believer in punishment. You want something to get done, you need to encourage, not coerce. Punishing children might just start off a cycle of negativity that will last the rest of their lives.

The punishment illustrates what bad things can happen when you do something bad, and that's just reality. With children it's useless unless you teach them why it's wrong. You need both sides, other wises what stops society from collapsing?

 

[SmilingKitsune]

I seriously doubt that's legal.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

You know, some adult is cleaning those toilets and it's not a punishment for him/her. It's their job. If he were an adult and "all he did" was steal a drink, he'd be facing wahayyyy steeper and harsher punishments than cleaning a toilet. Court fees, fines, community service, and jail time are all very real consequences for petty theft. It's a tough world.

 

[BlueMage]

Nothing a good caning wouldn't sort out.

 

[Helscreama]

EDIT: I say all this and I do believe in it, but there is something else I feel I should mention - when kids are already society's scumbags and can't be helped in conventional means, then using the sort of discipline they will respond to is something I feel is acceptable too. That is, bring back caning and corporal punishment, and National Service. Teachers have too little power now and are sometimes even running scared in their own classrooms, harsher discipline would do wonders to make things better...

I loved your edit. The world would be a much better place if kids had a better sense of discipline. I don't believe in hurting them but making National Service a requirement at a later age or possibly bring in Cadetship as a requirement during Primary/Secondary schooling.

 

[Furioso]

Problems are not the law is the law, and the law has to be respected, don't do the crime if you can't do the time etc

 

[thePyro_13]

That's a messed up punishment no matter what he did.

 

[Jumplion]

-Snip-

Does he need emotional and moral support? Hell yes!

Is his broken home a good enough excuse to let a real world crime off easy? NO!

It could have been handled better in only one real way, that would have been to have real talk with him. Still a 1 pound can of soda, or a 40 pound note from the register, it's still theft. In the real world that kind of thing can land you with hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of fines, which translate to either jail, or a ton of community service. This was at least a good example to the kid that this is how the real world works. Still someone should have sat down with him and given him a long talk, and a shoulder to cry on. Also to your point, try being transgendered, even with both parents I went through hell.

I want to touch on the "this teaches the kids about the real world!" argument for a second.

The kid's perception of the real world is already skewed. He has no father, his mother is an extreme alcoholic, dirt poor, and probably feels that he has nowhere to go in life.

He already knows the real world sucks. He doesn't need any more convincing. And even then, the real world isn't this stupid. The real world doesn't make you do a month of community service because you, I dunno, didn't water your lawn that one time.

This argument would work if he were a spoiled child, which is what I think many people are seeing this issue from. But he's a child in a high-risk environment, this kind of punishment doesn't fix anything. As I said before, all this does is make him more likely to shoot up the stalls rather than clean them.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

What an inhumane, ineffective punishment.

I honestly don't know what the school should have done. What can they do? The entire structure of the public school system makes it impossible for the staff to officially do any real good for him. School, let alone a government funded public school that focus on punishment and conformity will do nothing to make up for this child's lack of good parents. He obviously needs a good family to support and raise him. School isn't going to give him that.

EDIT: I say all this and I do believe in it, but there is something else I feel I should mention - when kids are already society's scumbags and can't be helped in conventional means, then using the sort of discipline they will respond to is something I feel is acceptable too. That is, bring back caning and corporal punishment, and National Service. Teachers have too little power now and are sometimes even running scared in their own classrooms, harsher discipline would do wonders to make things better...

I bet you the only way he will respond to harsher punishment is with more disdain and rejecition for society. Either that, or he will become a more repressed, conformed, ignorant, obedient, unhappy person. All that will do is create the illusion of order and functionality, as the cost of many, many values that are essential for human and societal potential and progression as well.

 

[imperialwar]

Back in my day we would get "scab duty" which was going around the school picking up rubbish.
That was just turning up to class late, let alone stealing stuff. Not that i can remember anyone EVER stealing stuff.

 

[orangeban]

EDIT: I say all this and I do believe in it, but there is something else I feel I should mention - when kids are already society's scumbags and can't be helped in conventional means, then using the sort of discipline they will respond to is something I feel is acceptable too. That is, bring back caning and corporal punishment, and National Service. Teachers have too little power now and are sometimes even running scared in their own classrooms, harsher discipline would do wonders to make things better...

I loved your edit. The world would be a much better place if kids had a better sense of discipline. I don't believe in hurting them but making National Service a requirement at a later age or possibly bring in Cadetship as a requirement during Primary/Secondary schooling.

The problem with National Service and Cadetship is that you compromise a lot of people's moral values for discipline, which is wrong. I think of the choices we get to make as humans, the right to not fight and kill is a big 'un, and the right to object to fighting and killing is another big 'un.

Besides, we have the CCF (Combined Cadet Force) at my school (though it's voluntary) and the big problem with that, it's not soldiers in charge, it's older kids. And the day I respect one of those over-zealous power-hungry bastards is the day I drown myself in hydrochloric acid.

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

Cleaning toilets is, at the end of the day, no different than being forced to write lines on a chalkboard (except for it being, you know, useful). Hell, in a lot of households kids have to clean their own toilets, not for having done something wrong but just because that's what needs to be done. Presumably, the kid was shown how to do this work in a sanitary fashion and was given the proper tools to do so.

On a completely seperate note, the child may have issues. Those issues need to be dealt with in a kind, supportive environment so that he can move on with his life in a productive manner. However! The child also needs to learn that misdeeds are not excused just because you have issues. If I go to the store and throw a hissy fit because my girlfriend dumped me, then guess what... I am going to jail. It doesn't matter that I have issues, I have done wrong.

Love and understanding is absolutely high on the list of what this kid needs, I have no doubt of that. However, he needs discipline as well, and neither can be allowed to negate the other.