Is this right, or even legal?

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Seems like a fair punishment to me. He needs to accept responsibility for his actions rather than just pointing a finger at his broken family and getting away scot free. If he thinks he can just get away with anything he wants because mommy doesn't love him, its just going to get worse

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Serving the community in a certain way to help right the wrong of his destruction of the community is absolutely fucking fine.

I don't give a shit if he cries for 2 years straight, that kid stole, so he has to pay. If he goes through life thinking that he can do this sort of thing, he's going to be far more troubled than he is now unless they put a stop to it, and put him on the straight and narrow.

Well even though I'm not a follower of the "straight and narrow" philosophy, you make a good point. You have to live within the law. You are absolutely right, for a crime like theft, community service is perfect. What it comes down to is he screwed up, broke the law, paid his debt to society, and he'll get over it. Hell he'll learn an important lesson from it.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Okay, so I guess we disagree on the whole human nature thing.

Your statement that people really don't care what other people thinks is kinda contradicted by the fact that you care to reply to something a guy on the internet who you don't know at all has to say. If someone don't care what other people think about them, then it is usually because they don't feel like people give a damn. Sadly, that is often the case, but it can also be changed at any point. If not, this kid will never feel included in society and will end up having a really miserable life. Punishment won't stop him from criminal activities, because there is always the chance that he just doesn't get caught - and what does he have to lose?

It's not because I care, it's because it's a stimulating discussion.

His freedom, his record or trustworthiness, and various other things that come from being convicted. That's what he has to lose, and this is where I agree with you. You need to teach someone that people are there who do care, and that they just destroy themselves, at the cost of those who love them. But with out a punishment to make the consequence real, that also steers said person in the wrong direction. Having a serious real world consequence says; "hey this sucked, I should avoid this in the future." Both parts are equally important in rehabilitation. With out the emotional side someone could easily care less. However with out the punishment there isn't any real consequence to breaking the law/rules.

Edit: Crap! Double post... Sorry guys... ^^;;

 

[AlloAllo]

...God, you people would get crazy if you were to spend a month in our schools XDDDDDD


"Hm. Hey, dude, can I get a slice of pizza?"
"Of course! One euro."
"Aaah... Listen, I'll pay you tomorrow."
"Sure thing, I'll add it to your account then."
*beat*
*Laughter*
"See ya tomorrow, dude."
"See ya. Thanks for the food."

 

[WaderiAAA]

Okay, so I guess we disagree on the whole human nature thing.

Your statement that people really don't care what other people thinks is kinda contradicted by the fact that you care to reply to something a guy on the internet who you don't know at all has to say. If someone don't care what other people think about them, then it is usually because they don't feel like people give a damn. Sadly, that is often the case, but it can also be changed at any point. If not, this kid will never feel included in society and will end up having a really miserable life. Punishment won't stop him from criminal activities, because there is always the chance that he just doesn't get caught - and what does he have to lose?

It's not because I care, it's because it's a stimulating discussion.

His freedom, his record or trustworthiness, and various other things that come from being convicted. That's what he has to lose, and this is where I agree with you. You need to teach someone that people are there who do care, and that they just destroy themselves, at the cost of those who love them. But with out a punishment to make the consequence real, that also steers said person in the wrong direction. Having a serious real world consequence says; "hey this sucked, I should avoid this in the future." Both parts are equally important in rehabilitation. With out the emotional side someone could easily care less. However with out the punishment there isn't any real consequence to breaking the law/rules.

Edit: Crap! Double post... Sorry guys... ^^;;

As much as I'd love to continue this discussion, like for instance try to define what a "real consequence" is, it is getting really late in my time zone, so I think I'll call it a night.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

 

[Fbuh]

They did a similar thing to me when I was 10. Someone had pisse don the toilet seat before I went in, and I really had to pee, so I went. I aimed perfectly, didn't even dribble, and finished my business. The teachers blamed me for the piss seat, even though I told tehm taht it was already there. They told me that I should have come out to tell them about it first, and then they made me clean the entire toilet. My mother raised all the demons of Hell in the school office that day.

So, from personal experience, I can say that it is not fair, as you don't know if any other kids have some sort of transferrable sickness. It's not a child's job to clean toilets (unless he of course did make the mess), and the punishment does not fit the crime. I went to school in the US, by the by.

 

[direkiller]

Considering there is a large number of states that still allow corporal punishment I doubt something like this would be illegal in the US.

Do you live in the US? I've never seen a state the has legal corporal punishment, that is if it isn't outlawed at the federal level. Either way it's just not done any more, and I've never even heard of some one who got corporal punishment at school. Well who wasn't at least as old as my parents(50+) that is.

Open hand on the butt is leagle in Ohio
sorry i dont know any outer state laws

federal level i don't think there is any

 

[Terrara]

what that kid must learn is how to get friends, as backstabbing as most of them are.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

"It's easy to make up rules, but they ain't much use if the people don't understand why. Like my son. If I tell him not do do somethin', he'll do it anyways, just to spite me. If I punish him, he resents me for it. But if I show him why it's wrong, at least he has a reason not to do it again."
While I do not think that what he did was justified in any way, I do think that a punishment like that is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? He wasn't beaten, he wasn't jailed... He was just given community service, and as bad as it seems... Well would you rather him have gotten off with just a slap on the wrist, like detention? Community service is often embarrassing, difficult, uncomfortable, and usually downright disgusting. Would you rather him have gotten off with no punishment, and be totally unprepared for the real world?

 

[AlloAllo]

Why is it ridiculous? ...

...Because it was a one pound soda and he could bring the money the next day and it's vaguely like ending in jail for robbing a bank because you brought home the bank's pen?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

Stealing is ALWAYS wrong, it doesn't matter what the motives are, or who could it have helped more. The fact is when you take something that isn't yours you've done somebody wrong. Somebody, or several somebodies had to pay and/or be payed for that item. You just taking it no matter from who, or what the motivation is doesn't make it right.

 

[oktalist]

It doesn't matter what the kid did, that punishment is pretty much child abuse in my view. I'd recommend that your mum approach the kid's foster parents and encourage them to ask the headteacher to apologise and discuss more productive correctional measures, or else lodge a formal complaint with the local education authority.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Why is it ridiculous? ...

...Because it was a one pound soda and he could bring the money the next day and it's vaguely like ending in jail for robbing a bank because you brought home the bank's pen?

The difference is that taking a banks pen is usually an accident, and they don't fund them selves with pens. Stealing that soda hurt the school because that's part of how they make their money to, you know, teach children. Also it's misdemeanor theft, which in the real world can land some one (based on Nevada stats) 50+ hours of community service. Stealing a soda from a convenience store will get the cops called on you, stealing a banks pen is free advertising for them every time you use the pen. The difference, One gets reported to the police the other doesn't. Plus a pen is not a bank's lively hood, a single soda is any store/school/whatever's lively hood, even if it's just partially.

 

[AlloAllo]

The difference is that taking a banks pen is usually an accident, and they don't fund them selves with pens. Stealing that soda hurt the school because that's part of how they make their money to, you know, teach children. Also it's misdemeanor theft, which in the real world can land some one (based on Nevada stats) 50+ hours of community service. Stealing a soda from a convenience store will get the cops called on you, stealing a banks pen is free advertising for them every time you use the pen. The difference, One gets reported to the police the other doesn't. Plus a pen is not a bank's lively hood, a single soda is any store/school/whatever's lively hood, even if it's just partially.

I do remember with sadness the Laboratory we didn't get because we lost one euro.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

It doesn't matter what the kid did, that punishment is pretty much child abuse in my view. I'd recommend that your mum approach the kid's foster parents and encourage them to ask the headteacher to apologise and discuss more productive correctional measures, or else lodge a formal complaint with the local education authority.

Making some one work off their crime is abuse? God I'd like to live in your world.

I do remember with sadness the Laboratory we didn't get because we lost one euro.

Either that's really bad sarcasm, or the saddest thing I've ever heard.

 

[McMullen]

Stealing is NOT inherently wrong.

...Um, would you care to explain that?

It is my belief that blanket statements ALWAYS have an exception and the statement that "Stealing is wrong" falls under this.

Who is stealing? Who is being stolen from? Who needs it more? Who really earned it? Who would do better with it? What good might come out of one person or the other having it?

All of these things (and more) must be factored in when deciding whether an act is wrong or not.

Yes, stealing is [i/]usually[/i] wrong, but in some cases it may not be. Thus, we CANNOT conclude that stealing is always, and inherently, wrong.

So, the Robin Hood argument then. Setting aside how rarely that enters into acts of theft outside of Hollywood or the minds of self-righteous software pirates, the kind of stealing that a self-pitying schoolboy with semi-sociopathic tendencies engages in is hardly likely to be the "right" kind of stealing.

 

[CthulhuMessiah]

That's like saying that because I saw my mother killed when I was 10, I am completely immune to the law because I had a shitty childhood.

 

[jawakiller]

Would it encourage him to do it again? I don't know.

What I do know is that I had a couple of pretty shitty times in my childhood. Not as bad as this kid's, but still bad. And I also know that if someone made me do a humiliating job for what probably feels like a justified and miniscule crime I would have started resenting them pretty quickly.

I wasn't a bad kid, but being treated like shit would have made me into one.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if that kid is beginning to silently hate authority. To him, the people who took him away from his mum and the people who make his life suck harder in school might as well be lumped under 'authority figures' and teaching somebody to hate those in never going to do them any good.


I'm not saying that he should have just been allowed off with no mention of this ever again. But the situation could have been handled soooo much better than this.

I can agree with that. I guess it all depends on how old the kid is. If he's young, A stern warning or maybe detention would probably suffice but if this kid was middle school or older... I wouldn't go easy on him. So perhaps the severity should be chosen in relation to age, not circumstance.

I've been through shitty times as a kid but I'm glad nobody let me off. Learned how not to get caught thanks to them. See, teach a kid a harsh lesson the first time and they'll make sure they're never caught again. Then if they steal something as an adult, they'll try not to get caught, remembering how much it sucked. That's a good lesson.